Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
September 19, 2017, 10:04:55 PM
Home Home Help Calendar Login Register
News:

Please support BullpupForum.com sponsors!!
. . . Midwest Industries . . . BullpupArmory.com . . . Shooting Sight . . . BullpupUnlimited.com . . . Homeland Guns . . . . . . . . . . . . AB Arms . . . GallowayPrecision.com . . . K & M Arms . . . . . . Geissele Automatics
+  BULLPUP FORUM
|-+  Bullpup Rifles (Auto & Semi-Auto Centerfire)
| |-+  Desert Tech MDR
| | |-+  For 5.56 users, will the MDR be worth it?
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5 Print
Author Topic: For 5.56 users, will the MDR be worth it?  (Read 9429 times)
Frostburg
^
Bullpup Fanatic
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,501


« on: January 10, 2017, 04:38:04 AM »

I am curious, as I am primarily interested in the MDR as a 5.56 fighting rifle, and if the 5.56 version will be
all that it's cracked up to be. I have come to understand recently that .308 will be the primary caliber for the platform, and 5.56 is more of a "side-kick" to it. I'm not terribly interested in a .308 MDR, but instead 5.56. I get that DT has spent considerable time with the .308 version and that version is their pride and joy.  While they are showing off .308 groups, the 5.56 version is still being developed. 

I mean, how will the 5.56 version stack up against the .308 version? Is it even worth it to get the MDR if
you are only interested in 5.56?  I mean, there are other options for 5.56 such as the Tavor, etc, but none of whom offer the revolutionary design and features of the MDR.
Logged
Slateman
^
Bullpup Fanatic
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 736


« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2017, 07:48:16 AM »

At this point, we have frickin idea. And we won't for the better part of a year.
Logged
Menace667
Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 249


« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2017, 08:46:44 AM »

The rifle in and of itself is a .308 rifle and had to be that way to accommodate the larger round. It couldn't have been the other way around or the difficulties of making it work would have been far harder. I also don't see them preferring one over the other at all. If anything the more calibers the more money they can make. People are already clamoring for 6.5 calibers and 300bo, which equates to $$$$$$.
Logged
reason
Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 215


« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2017, 12:50:10 PM »

If the price hadn't gone up I would have cancelled my preorder for the 556 and just waited till it came out and had reviews due to the newest pushback and info about the tooling not being finished. All this time I never considered either caliber as a primary priority wise and thought it was being developed as a system.  The ACR debacle makes me hesitant to buy a rifle motivated mostly on the multi cal metric because of seeing how stupid business practices can destroy a magnificent rifles future. My hope is that DT record of actually having produced multi cal systems before bestows some confidence above other companies. 
Logged
Frostburg
^
Bullpup Fanatic
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,501


« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2017, 12:50:21 PM »

The rifle in and of itself is a .308 rifle and had to be that way to accommodate the larger round. It couldn't have been the other way around or the difficulties of making it work would have been far harder. I also don't see them preferring one over the other at all. If anything the more calibers the more money they can make. People are already clamoring for 6.5 calibers and 300bo, which equates to $$$$$$.

But making money on a product doesn't necessarily imply that that product will be top quality. People make tons of money by putting out sub-standard products. I'm not in any way suggesting that the 5.56 MDR will be sub-standard, just noting the fallacy that turning a profit on a product necessitates that the product is held to a high standard.

All I'm worried about is that the MDR overall as a platform will be idealized for the .308 caliber, and that
the 5.56 version will not have as much attention given, or that the 5.56 version will be "adapted" to the .308 platform. This would imply that theoretically the MDR as a native 5.56 platform might be constructed slightly differently and perhaps the tuning of the parts and dimensions would be more specific to the 5.56 caliber.  Idk if that made any sense.
Logged
reason
Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 215


« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2017, 12:51:41 PM »

Delete double post
Logged
reason
Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 215


« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2017, 12:56:22 PM »

Frost, I would consider DT integration of multi cal conversions into a single system in the bolt rifles a reason to hope they will do a similar job on the MDR. Think of the retention of zero between cal changes on the SRS. That is a serious positive.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 12:58:31 PM by reason » Logged
Frostburg
^
Bullpup Fanatic
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,501


« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2017, 01:24:09 PM »

Frost, I would consider DT integration of multi cal conversions into a single system in the bolt rifles a reason to hope they will do a similar job on the MDR. Think of the retention of zero between cal changes on the SRS. That is a serious positive.

That last portion does offer some hope, but the mechanism for a bolt action rifle is slighly less violent.

Here is one specific concern: The receiver and magazine-well are designed for the larger .308 cartridge.
How will the seams for the parts to accommodate the 5.56 conversion be handled? Will the seams be weak points for the rifle? If the magazine or magazine well area takes a strong blow, could it jar the magazine well adapter loose? Also let's think more specifically about the internal dimensions of the receiver. It would be large enough to accommodate the .308 cartridge.  But now you're going to switch it out to 5.56. In my mind, that means that there will be excess space internally as the 5.56 bolt/carrier stuff will be smaller. That would seem like more bulk than what is necessary for the 5.56 system, and possibly more weight than what would normally be called for it.
Logged
EWTHeckman
.
Bullpup Fanatic
****
Online Online

Posts: 511


« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2017, 01:45:59 PM »

Here is one specific concern: The receiver and magazine-well are designed for the larger .308 cartridge.
How will the seams for the parts to accommodate the 5.56 conversion be handled? Will the seams be weak points for the rifle? If the magazine or magazine well area takes a strong blow, could it jar the magazine well adapter loose? Also let's think more specifically about the internal dimensions of the receiver. It would be large enough to accommodate the .308 cartridge.  But now you're going to switch it out to 5.56. In my mind, that means that there will be excess space internally as the 5.56 bolt/carrier stuff will be smaller. That would seem like more bulk than what is necessary for the 5.56 system, and possibly more weight than what would normally be called for it.

It seems to me that using a frame designed for a heavier caliber will always be heavier than a frame designed only for lighter calibers. That's just a given of physics. The real question is "how much heavier?" I could be wrong, but it seems that the weight of the MDR is pretty close to the average AR-15. The shorter length of a bullpup may have something to do with that.

It seems that the durability of the magazine well adapter is probably affected by three factors: the quality of the adapter material, the quality of the adapter connection to the receiver, and support from the receiver's magazine well walls.

The latter factor is probably the most important of the three. Since the magazine well adapter is fully enclosed by the .308 mag well, that strength would then offer significant support to the adapter. Impacts from the outside would not even reach the adapter. Impacts from the inside would be pressing the adapter into the stronger outer walls, so while you might get cracks (hard to imagine non-kaboom internal impacts being that strong), there's no place for them to go. And if it's an internal impact caused by a kaboom, the rifle should not be fired again anyway.

The next most important factor is probably the connection. If it's a weak and/or poorly designed connection, it could fall out of the gun due to wear or impacts. Given that the multi-caliber capability and reliability of the MDR is something DesertTech is making a big deal of, we should be able to trust DT to get this part right.

Finally, the material used might make a difference. If it gets brittle or otherwise breaks easily, that's a problem. Given that the MDR is already made of solid materials, and that magazine well adapters have been in use for years (most common: 9mm adapters in AR-15's) I don't expect this be a problem, even if they have to use steel—which seems like major overkill.
Logged
SHORT-N-SASSY
^
Bullpup Fanatic
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,789



« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2017, 02:03:38 PM »

Desert Tech MDR magazine well adapter---

Logged
Chief Master
.
Sr. Member
***
Online Online

Posts: 283


« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2017, 02:12:43 PM »

Where did you get that pic?
Logged
SHORT-N-SASSY
^
Bullpup Fanatic
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,789



« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2017, 02:43:18 PM »

Chief Master, Google "images for: MDR photos by SMGLee." (https://www.google.com/?guns_rd=ssl#q=images+for+MDR+photos+by+SMGLee). Then, scroll down the Page.
Logged
whenyougottogo
^
Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 106



« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2017, 03:12:24 PM »

If and/or when the 5.56 version comes out I'm sure it will be, at least, on par with however the .308 version ends up being. As others have said, scaling down from .308 to 5.56 is the easy way to go. You've got a barrel which would probably contain the gas system all calibrated to 5.56 and then a bolt.  Maybe you might have to do a recoil spring/system swap. The magwell adapter would require the most thought, but even modern day Colt managed to get it right with the 901 series of rifles.

The only real disadvantage I can see, from initially designing the rifle for .308, would be that it would be heavier than if it was exclusively designed around 5.56.

My main concern is, how long until we actually see the 5.56 version? DT has really struggled up to this point and is still at least two months or so away from delivering the rifle in it's base configuration.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 03:13:56 PM by epicrad » Logged
coldboremiracle
Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 242


« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2017, 03:14:24 PM »

Desert Tech MDR magazine well adapter---


That is an old pic of a prototype three or more gen's back. It shares little with the current gen, other than similar bolt catch/release placement, and the magazine itself.
Logged

The first shot, is worth all the rest.

Follow me on FB, IG, YT

I work for Desert Tech, happy to help wherever I can.
EWTHeckman
.
Bullpup Fanatic
****
Online Online

Posts: 511


« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2017, 03:28:27 PM »

That is an old pic of a prototype three or more gen's back. It shares little with the current gen, other than similar bolt catch/release placement, and the magazine itself.

That explains why it looks like it was 3D printed.
Logged
hillbillyjim
^
Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 52


« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2017, 07:28:53 PM »

If you are getting scar 16/17 or mr556/762 quality no it isn't.  If it's no better then a tavor then we getting raped with no lube
Logged
MikeSmith
^
Sr. Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 261


« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2017, 09:39:29 PM »

My answer to the original question is a resounding YES!

We are talking about a rifle that is:

1. approx 7 lb (before you get the weight distribution advantages of the bullpup configuration)

2. 16" barrel (no NFA issues, almost full velocity potential from the cartridge)

3.  26" overall (better than an SBR AR but no NFA issues)

4. shoots sub-moa with factory ammo

5. fully ambidextrous (not just "good enough for shooting weak side on occasion")

6. fully modular (swap barrel lengths, calibers, hand guards, etc.)

7. doesn't require any trigger upgrade out of the box

Etc.

Show me ANY other rifle design that offers that, or even most of that, for less than $2,500?

Yeah, I'd say it's "worth it", objectively speaking.  Of course, whether it's "worth it" to a certain buyer personally is a completely different question!  Smiley
Logged
Ditcher
^
Sr. Member
***
Online Online

Posts: 457


« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2017, 11:28:39 PM »

I am curious, as I am primarily interested in the MDR as a 5.56 fighting rifle, and if the 5.56 version will be
all that it's cracked up to be. I have come to understand recently that .308 will be the primary caliber for the platform, and 5.56 is more of a "side-kick" to it. I'm not terribly interested in a .308 MDR, but instead 5.56. I get that DT has spent considerable time with the .308 version and that version is their pride and joy.  While they are showing off .308 groups, the 5.56 version is still being developed. 

I mean, how will the 5.56 version stack up against the .308 version? Is it even worth it to get the MDR if
you are only interested in 5.56?  I mean, there are other options for 5.56 such as the Tavor, etc, but none of whom offer the revolutionary design and features of the MDR.

Hard to say if it be worth it or not for you.  Depends what you're looking for I guess.
Tavor isn't really that much more heavy then the MDR. We are talking about .8lbs differences.
Plus most the weight sits on the shoulder so its not bad.  I hear they improved the trigger on the newer tavors. (so they say) I seen the 18" tavor sell for little over 1400 which isn't a bad deal.  So it depends what you're looking for and what you want out of it. Smiley
Logged
Graccus
Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 29


« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2017, 02:17:29 AM »

I am curious, as I am primarily interested in the MDR as a 5.56 fighting rifle, and if the 5.56 version will be
all that it's cracked up to be. I have come to understand recently that .308 will be the primary caliber for the platform, and 5.56 is more of a "side-kick" to it. I'm not terribly interested in a .308 MDR, but instead 5.56. I get that DT has spent considerable time with the .308 version and that version is their pride and joy.  While they are showing off .308 groups, the 5.56 version is still being developed. 

I mean, how will the 5.56 version stack up against the .308 version? Is it even worth it to get the MDR if
you are only interested in 5.56?  I mean, there are other options for 5.56 such as the Tavor, etc, but none of whom offer the revolutionary design and features of the MDR.

Frostburg, if you want a bullpup designed specifically for the .556, then you may want to seriously consider a Lithgow F90 Atrax. They'll be $500+ less than the MDR, and if all continues to go as planned, you'll be able to get your hands on the civilian version before the .556 MDR is available. Since i absolutely hate the Tavor, I won't encourage you in that direction.

I'm pretty sure the .556 MDR is going to be one heck of a rifle, but I can see how someone wanting a rifle specifically designed for the .556 might be discouraged by the MDR platform. In answer to your question, I do believe the MDR will be worth it, even in .556.
Logged
Frostburg
^
Bullpup Fanatic
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,501


« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2017, 01:17:36 AM »

Desert Tech MDR magazine well adapter---


That is an old pic of a prototype three or more gen's back. It shares little with the current gen, other than similar bolt catch/release placement, and the magazine itself.

Coldboremiracle, I think that out of anyone here, you would be best to answer this question.
As someone who is interested in 5.56, how does the MDR stack up? Is the 5.56 merely the 'Robin' to .308's 'Batman?' Is it just an 'accessory' to a primarily .308 rifle? I want the 5.56 version to be the ideal 5.56 rifle that the .308 version is clearly expected to be.

I would personally have preferred that 5.56 would have been the "native" caliber for the platform, not the .308, but hey, that's just me.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5 Print 
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!