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| | |-+  Okay, so missing extractor pin..
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Author Topic: Okay, so missing extractor pin..  (Read 1436 times)
Frostburg
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« on: December 29, 2016, 10:53:59 PM »

I've been reading range reports of various RDB owners online, and the reports
of the 'lemons' here and there, whether they be recoil springs popping out, broken firing pins, screws loosening over time, or whatnot; it made me a little nervous.

I've already put just two or three hundred rounds through my RDB, and decided that wasn't enough. So I wanted to put a little over 500 rounds through it in a single lengthy shooting session, just to test and see how it would hold up. 

My plan was to give it a break every several magazines to inspect for any problems. I was not going to just mag-dump all the magazines as fast as I could, but rather fire at a reasonable but still quick rate, generally a shot every 2-3 seconds. And take breathers every now and then to assess the rifle for any
emerging issues.

Today was the day for me to go, and I woke up to a very cold snow day. I get to the range, and do a hasty BZO on a paper plate and then move on to a large orange gong target I got at walmart at about 95 yards.

I shoot maybe 120 rounds before I have to call it quits due to the weather. It
started hailing and it was getting pretty cold. It was just becoming unenjoyable
at that point.  Besides two failures that were easily remedied by immediate action (typical for most rifles), the RDB performed flawlessly the entire time.

It wasn't until I got home that I noticed the problem. I immediately started inspecting the rifle for any loose screws or other issues that could have come up
from shooting today. Upon looking at the bolt, I noticed that the extractor pin
was missing. It must have fallen out somewhere, I don't know.

It's odd because the RDB fired fine until I decided to call it quits due to the
weather.  It fired every last round (besides the two odd misfires mid-way through). I would guess that my extractor pin fell out somewhere during the course of firing today. I cleaned and inspected the rifle last night. That would imply that the rifle continued to fire faithfully even without an extractor pin.

Anyhow, I don't know what to make of this. I know a lot of people have criticized
Kel-tec for crappy QC, but I attributed that to the internet "echo-chamber" as Kfeltenberger put it.  I really like the handling of this rifle, on one hand. On the other hand, an extractor pin falling out is unacceptable, imo.

I plan on calling Kel-tec after the holidays.


Thoughts?
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HBeretta
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« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2016, 04:12:21 AM »

The gun handles extremely well and is so damn accurate to shoot.  Not sure if you mentioned but did you install the BCM extractor spring upgrade kit?  If not...go ahead.  Pack of 3 kits i believe is going for 12 bucks online.  Be sure to install all...new spring, insert and o-ring.  I haven't had any issues but did as precaution after reading reports of the pin walking out.  Kel-Tec has remedied this with slightly larger extractor pins so go ahead and put in a service ticket with them requesting a few.  May as well order some backup firing pins while you're at it.  They got them over to me quickly and at no charge of course.  As for your missing firing pin...you should be able to pick an AR15 extractor pin up at a local gun store.  Yes it's unacceptable and QC seems to be suspect but their products are radical/left field items so i'm not terribly surprised.  At least you have a lifetime warranty and their customer service is outstanding.  I'd call them and place a service ticket online requesting the above minus the BCM upgrade of course.

I'd read the jokes and ridicule directed at Kel-tec prior to my purchase but went ahead because of how affordable the gun is and the lifetime warranty.  Incidentally, it's the best handling bull pup on the market currently.  I just can't get over how damn good the trigger is and how smooth it shoots with zero recoil thanks to the SJC titan i have on mine which in retrospect wasn't needed at all but was already on order before i got the gun home.      
« Last Edit: January 02, 2017, 08:38:25 PM by HBeretta » Logged
Frostburg
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« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2017, 03:27:58 AM »

I agree. The RDB is easily the best handling bullpup, and probably even best handling rifle I've
ever shot. It's accurate, smooth recoil, lightweight, super intuitive controls, breaks down so simply that all the parts as easily accessible for cleaning, etc.

It's such a shame that the sole flaw of this rifle is simply quality control, materials and assembly.
If those things were all top-notch, this rifle would be unbeatable in every respect. It would
probably be the perfect go-to rifle. It's like some ridiculously ironic joke being played on us, dangling in front of us at our expense.

KELTEC, make this rifle bomb-proof and you will beat ALL OTHERS! Why don't they get that??

I almost want to hand this rifle to a high-end manufacturer and have them make me a quality copy
under the table. It has groundbreaking potential if only Kel-tec would get their collective heads out of their rears.

As for the BCM extractor kit, I'm wearing about installing third party parts that are meant for a different platform. I mean, the bolt assembly is not like a rail or hand-guard. It's important stuff vital
to normal functioning. I'm nervous about "bubba-fying" anything like that. What if it causes an issue?

Wouldn't it just better to call Kel-tec and send the rifle in?
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HBeretta
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« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2017, 11:15:39 PM »

Send your rifle in?  Ohhh, I wouldn't if in your shoes...at all.  If all you're missing is the extractor pin, no need.  With regard to the BCM upgrade...you'll quickly realize why myself and I'm sure others have installed.  The stock spring is pretty terrible.  The BCM installs perfectly on the RDB then again I assumed it would prior to insight.  It's possible it's helped as I haven't had one extraction issue or the pin walk out.  I would've taken the precaution regardless though.  Besides I've had two gun shop owners recommend as well...hardly the profit pushing a $5 item.  Or if you're more comfortable sending your gun in for a few weeks or longer...
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Frostburg
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« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2017, 04:49:06 AM »

I'm not certain. I think I'm going to have to study this BCM extractor kit and discover how to use it and what it does. How is it okay to use AR15 parts in a RDB? They are different types of rifles. Couldn't this cause problems? Has Kel-tec approved this fix? What if it makes my RDB blow up? Then I could end up becoming blind. Arn't parts of this type supposed to be specially engineered and designed to function with specifically sized parts?
« Last Edit: January 03, 2017, 04:56:30 AM by Frostburg » Logged
HBeretta
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« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2017, 09:13:33 PM »

I'm not certain. I think I'm going to have to study this BCM extractor kit and discover how to use it and what it does. How is it okay to use AR15 parts in a RDB? They are different types of rifles. Couldn't this cause problems? Has Kel-tec approved this fix? What if it makes my RDB blow up? Then I could end up becoming blind. Arn't parts of this type supposed to be specially engineered and designed to function with specifically sized parts?

at some point you've got to disassemble your bolt to clean it.  the upgrade kit costs $5...that's it.  it remedies extraction issues which in turn eliminates double feeds and jamming issues.  it's a 223/556 bolt and although designs will vary with each gun these upgrade kits appear to be universal.  lol...it won't make your gun blow up, but i like your sarcasm.  see the link below for some insight.  again, i'm making the suggestion with the idea that the better spring will create more tension on the extractor pin to keep it from walking out along with gripping spent casings better...seems to be a win win.  i'm about a 1k rounds in on my RDB and if you can believe it i haven't had a single jam or double feed since initially setting the gas settings right out of the box - first 5 to 10 rnds fired.  very pleased with how the gun has performed up to this point.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGx-6OXcu0Q&t=358s  
« Last Edit: January 04, 2017, 09:19:12 PM by HBeretta » Logged
Frostburg
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« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2017, 12:49:11 AM »

Okay. I see how the spring upgrade works. You say this is also specced for the RDB?

What kind of extractor pin should I use?
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HBeretta
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« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2017, 12:52:03 AM »

have kel-tec send you a few extractor pins and while you're at it may as well request a couple of firing pins as well.  i put in a service ticket for a firing pin and they sent me a few extractor pins as i mentioned the issue of extractor pins walking out along with a couple of firing pins...at no charge of course.  took about a week to receive.

i have backup ar15 extractor pins as well and i'll be honest look pretty identical and did work on my rdb bolt but went ahead and used what kel-tec sent me instead.

« Last Edit: January 05, 2017, 12:55:38 AM by HBeretta » Logged
Frostburg
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« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2017, 06:26:06 PM »

So are they in the post early-production phase yet? Where they have worked out all the bugs and stuff? What is the quality of recent production RDBs?
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HBeretta
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« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2017, 02:25:19 AM »

not sure if the rifle has been in public hands long enough but kel-tec appears to be pretty good with corrections aka sub2000.  i'm sure kel-tec is keeping track of user reports, ticket submissions, etc... 
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