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| | |-+  Current delivery date for people who pre-ordered through DT? I see 05/15/17
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Author Topic: Current delivery date for people who pre-ordered through DT? I see 05/15/17  (Read 72530 times)
Frostburg
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« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2016, 06:16:03 PM »

I have no intentions of intentionally abusing the thing, but i've got a reasonable stockpile of ammo I plan on blasting through it once I have it in hand. Mostly for fun  Tongue, partially to make up for the extended wait, and also to prove the thing to myself if anything! Hoping for zero issues.

The thing is, this rifle is completely new. It has passed no tests of any kind. Unlike the Tavor, Steyr AUG,
AR15, AK type rifles that people designate as their "bug-out" rifles, this one has no history to stand
on.  Many people are looking to this rifle to become their mainline SHTF rifle. Why would you trust
your life to a rifle that has zero history and no proof that it even functions properly?  I want to see this rifle be put through worst-case-scenario tests before I decide to buy it. At this point, the Keltec RDB
has a better track record of reliability than the MDR (because the production MDR still doesn't exist, as of yet).
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kfeltenberger
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« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2016, 08:05:12 PM »

I have no intentions of intentionally abusing the thing, but i've got a reasonable stockpile of ammo I plan on blasting through it once I have it in hand. Mostly for fun  Tongue, partially to make up for the extended wait, and also to prove the thing to myself if anything! Hoping for zero issues.

The thing is, this rifle is completely new. It has passed no tests of any kind. Unlike the Tavor, Steyr AUG,
AR15, AK type rifles that people designate as their "bug-out" rifles, this one has no history to stand
on.  Many people are looking to this rifle to become their mainline SHTF rifle. Why would you trust
your life to a rifle that has zero history and no proof that it even functions properly?  I want to see this rifle be put through worst-case-scenario tests before I decide to buy it. At this point, the Keltec RDB
has a better track record of reliability than the MDR (because the production MDR still doesn't exist, as of yet).

The MDR is being tested to NATO performance requirements.  If DT releases the test results, that, to me, would put it in good standing. 
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Kurt
Frostburg
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« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2016, 10:14:33 PM »

I have no intentions of intentionally abusing the thing, but i've got a reasonable stockpile of ammo I plan on blasting through it once I have it in hand. Mostly for fun  Tongue, partially to make up for the extended wait, and also to prove the thing to myself if anything! Hoping for zero issues.

The thing is, this rifle is completely new. It has passed no tests of any kind. Unlike the Tavor, Steyr AUG,
AR15, AK type rifles that people designate as their "bug-out" rifles, this one has no history to stand
on.  Many people are looking to this rifle to become their mainline SHTF rifle. Why would you trust
your life to a rifle that has zero history and no proof that it even functions properly?  I want to see this rifle be put through worst-case-scenario tests before I decide to buy it. At this point, the Keltec RDB
has a better track record of reliability than the MDR (because the production MDR still doesn't exist, as of yet).

The MDR is being tested to NATO performance requirements.  If DT releases the test results, that, to me, would put it in good standing. 

I think most people will be very interested in seeing those results. Even still, I would
like to see the random MDR sold to the common Joe also being tested by reviewers or people
in general. Just in case the NATO tested ones were given a little more attention during final assembly.
Also, once the MDR starts making it into the hands of hundreds or even thousands of average people,
problems might begin to emerge that wouldn't have risen with a smaller sample size.
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INV136
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« Reply #23 on: December 15, 2016, 07:26:18 PM »

I have no intentions of intentionally abusing the thing, but i've got a reasonable stockpile of ammo I plan on blasting through it once I have it in hand. Mostly for fun  Tongue, partially to make up for the extended wait, and also to prove the thing to myself if anything! Hoping for zero issues.

The thing is, this rifle is completely new. It has passed no tests of any kind. Unlike the Tavor, Steyr AUG,
AR15, AK type rifles that people designate as their "bug-out" rifles, this one has no history to stand
on.  Many people are looking to this rifle to become their mainline SHTF rifle. Why would you trust
your life to a rifle that has zero history and no proof that it even functions properly?  I want to see this rifle be put through worst-case-scenario tests before I decide to buy it. At this point, the Keltec RDB
has a better track record of reliability than the MDR (because the production MDR still doesn't exist, as of yet).

I wouldn't put KelTec as an example to compare to the Steyr Aug, AR15, and AK that you used as to having passed any tests. I never had an RDB (which is not comparable because it is a 5.56), but I did have an RFB (.308 which is a better comparison) and that gun did have issues out of the box. KelTec had great customer service and fixed the first issue fast. I give them credit for that. However that RFB had a really cheap, brittle plastic feel which I didn't like. The Steyr Aug stock is also made of polymers, but, it feels a hell of a lot more durable and much tougher than that RFB. I didn't even put that RFB through "...worst case-scenario tests..." as you describe them and it still didn't function as it should have.

I have found that I don't need to abuse any of my weapons to find the ones that are lemons. I bought one of the first Colt Delta Elite 10mm pistols and it was brand new out of the box. I never got to shoot it because I always clean my newly received guns before I shoot them. This gun was a brand new lemon out of the box. I noticed that the thumb safety would not engage. I put so much force on that safety that the plunger tube (and spring inside) broke off completely from the side of the frame. I immediately took it back to the dealer for an immediate refund. I had a friend who also purchased one exactly like mine and his did the same thing.

All of my other rifles I did not abuse and found them to be very reliable over the years. I've had Colt AR15, HK 91, HK 93, FN FAL, various AK 47 rifles (several Chinese, a Yugoslav, and one American made Arsenal Inc.), Galil AR .308, and several others. I've never abused any of them and I've always felt confident in all of them after taking them to the range a few times. That RFB was one of the few that I immediately did not feel confident in after one range trip. No abuse or torture necessary. I got rid of it. I also had a brand new DSA FAL that had issues and I sold it. You can destroy your own MDR when you get one, that's your privilege and your business. I will never do that to my firearms. I intend for them to function for a long time. I'll be satisfied if it works as advertised after a couple of range sessions. Torture free.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2016, 07:28:39 PM by INV136 » Logged
Dogslayer
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« Reply #24 on: December 15, 2016, 08:56:34 PM »

Did anyone get a tracking number for their rifle that was supposed to be
shipped today?
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Frostburg
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« Reply #25 on: December 16, 2016, 12:44:03 AM »

I have no intentions of intentionally abusing the thing, but i've got a reasonable stockpile of ammo I plan on blasting through it once I have it in hand. Mostly for fun  Tongue, partially to make up for the extended wait, and also to prove the thing to myself if anything! Hoping for zero issues.

The thing is, this rifle is completely new. It has passed no tests of any kind. Unlike the Tavor, Steyr AUG,
AR15, AK type rifles that people designate as their "bug-out" rifles, this one has no history to stand
on.  Many people are looking to this rifle to become their mainline SHTF rifle. Why would you trust
your life to a rifle that has zero history and no proof that it even functions properly?  I want to see this rifle be put through worst-case-scenario tests before I decide to buy it. At this point, the Keltec RDB
has a better track record of reliability than the MDR (because the production MDR still doesn't exist, as of yet).

I wouldn't put KelTec as an example to compare to the Steyr Aug, AR15, and AK that you used as to having passed any tests. I never had an RDB (which is not comparable because it is a 5.56), but I did have an RFB (.308 which is a better comparison) and that gun did have issues out of the box. KelTec had great customer service and fixed the first issue fast. I give them credit for that. However that RFB had a really cheap, brittle plastic feel which I didn't like. The Steyr Aug stock is also made of polymers, but, it feels a hell of a lot more durable and much tougher than that RFB. I didn't even put that RFB through "...worst case-scenario tests..." as you describe them and it still didn't function as it should have.

I have found that I don't need to abuse any of my weapons to find the ones that are lemons. I bought one of the first Colt Delta Elite 10mm pistols and it was brand new out of the box. I never got to shoot it because I always clean my newly received guns before I shoot them. This gun was a brand new lemon out of the box. I noticed that the thumb safety would not engage. I put so much force on that safety that the plunger tube (and spring inside) broke off completely from the side of the frame. I immediately took it back to the dealer for an immediate refund. I had a friend who also purchased one exactly like mine and his did the same thing.

All of my other rifles I did not abuse and found them to be very reliable over the years. I've had Colt AR15, HK 91, HK 93, FN FAL, various AK 47 rifles (several Chinese, a Yugoslav, and one American made Arsenal Inc.), Galil AR .308, and several others. I've never abused any of them and I've always felt confident in all of them after taking them to the range a few times. That RFB was one of the few that I immediately did not feel confident in after one range trip. No abuse or torture necessary. I got rid of it. I also had a brand new DSA FAL that had issues and I sold it. You can destroy your own MDR when you get one, that's your privilege and your business. I will never do that to my firearms. I intend for them to function for a long time. I'll be satisfied if it works as advertised after a couple of range sessions. Torture free.

Here's the difference. Every rifle you mentioned, besides the RFB, has a proven military service history. Their platforms have passed muster. You don't need to test them because the military has already done so and given them their approval. Most of them have later been confirmed in wars.

Sure, you might be lucky and discover that your rifle is a lemon when you unbox it, or you might discover that later, after 2k rounds downrange. The last thing you want is for your rifle to unexpectedly fail when you are defending your life. This has been a concern for those who use their weapon professionally.

I can reasonably expect my rifle to serve me in a serious situation if I choose to buy an AR from a
reputable company, or I buy a Tavor. All of those have already been vetted.  The MDR doesn't have
any of that whatsoever. It would have been foolish to assume that an early version RFB was combat ready. They may be now, but at the time they were experiencing major issues. Imagine something like that happening in a lethal scenario.  Why would you do the same with the MDR without any
proof to its reliability?

Mind you, I'm not going to abuse any rifle that I might rely upon, but I'm probably not going to go through with a purchase until I see proof from others, and after reading/watching numerous range reports online.
of other owners.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2016, 12:48:01 AM by Frostburg » Logged
INV136
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« Reply #26 on: December 16, 2016, 12:11:37 PM »

As mentioned before I always take my new forearms to the range a couple of times before I carry them, regardless of whether their counterparts have been military tested or not. I've had (very rarely) issues with even Colt AR15 rifles I have had that were brand new. I had a Colt 6920 model lock up with an unfired cartridge stuck inside the chamber after firing a couple of rounds at the range. I had to wait for the gun to cool down before I could finally pull the bolt back, ejecting the unfired cartridge. Battle tested or not any weapon can and sometimes (rarely) does. I understand and accept that. That is why I don't care whether a new design has been battle tested or not.

I rely on the company to take care of the testing for flaws or other design issues. But, I also take any new gun to the range several times to be personally satisfied with it. That policy has served me well for the last 40 years. We used to have a local gun shop owner who also shot 1911 pistol competitions. He always preached test firing all newly purchased guns that you buy before carrying them. That was regardless of the reputation (battle tested, proven reputation, etc.) of the manufacturer. And he was correct.

In any event, I'm on the pre-paid order and will be happily receiving my MDR without reservation. I will also take it to the range several times before depending on it. But, also, even with all of my other rifles, I always have a pistol (defensive weapon) as a backup in the event that the rifle or other long arm fails. Then it's just a matter of quick transition from rifle to pistol. So, no, I'm not afraid of the MDR being a new (non-battle proven) design.   
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Frostburg
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« Reply #27 on: December 16, 2016, 03:52:05 PM »

I suppose if you want to take manufacturer's claims at face value, you should feel free to do so.
For my peace of mind, I just want some additional evidence before I make a purchase.
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The Heretic
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« Reply #28 on: December 18, 2016, 02:57:46 PM »

There is an old court theory that says if a witness lies once then everything he says cannot be trusted.

This is a lawyer's logic trick - it is also a fallacy. The old "were you lying then, or are you lying now" and "you lied about that, why should we believe you now" assertions.

Everybody lies - everybody. At some time in our life we have all lied about something.

That doesn't mean that just because we lie about one thing that we lie about everything.

It is the job of marketing to embellish the truth - to sell the product. Not unheard of for marketing to outright lie. Those of us that are responsible for actually making a product usually have no control over what marketing and sales tells the buyer. That does not mean what we produce is crap, it means buyer beware and to not believe everything that marketing and sales tells you.

Is the MDR a bullpup rifle with interchangeable barrels?

Yes.

Will it be everything that DT tells us it will be?

That remains to be seen.

Which is why I am waiting until it gets into the hands of some third party reviewers and owners who will share their experiences with us before I buy one - if I buy one.
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INV136
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« Reply #29 on: December 19, 2016, 12:52:58 PM »

There is an old court theory that says if a witness lies once then everything he says cannot be trusted.

This is a lawyer's logic trick - it is also a fallacy. The old "were you lying then, or are you lying now" and "you lied about that, why should we believe you now" assertions.

Everybody lies - everybody. At some time in our life we have all lied about something. NOT ON THE WITNESS STAND UNDER OATH.

That doesn't mean that just because we lie about one thing that we lie about everything.

That's not what I was referring to. Not whether a lawyer asserts whether a witness or suspect lied to the police and then tells a different story on the witness stand. I'm referring to the court honored tradition (judge not the attorney's) of once a witness or suspect lies under oath on the witness stand, none of his/her testimony holds any weight in that proceeding and is held as suspect by the judge.
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Rick53
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« Reply #30 on: December 19, 2016, 01:11:39 PM »

Lord have Mercy for they know not what they do:   WOW GUYS Put it to bed : It's not even available and you're arguing about legal situations?  JMO but it seems like many of you are so obsessed that actually getting one will be a let down: LOL JMO

NOTE: If offended this may apply to you:
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whenyougottogo
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« Reply #31 on: December 19, 2016, 03:04:38 PM »

Did anyone get a tracking number for their rifle that was supposed to be
shipped today?

No, nothing from DT other than the Christmas promotion/sale. Nothing from my local dealer either that I selected to have it shipped to either.

Not at all surprised by this, I'm just hoping they don't experience any more major setbacks and that their recent estimates for delivery are based on conservative estimates.
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Frostburg
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« Reply #32 on: December 19, 2016, 03:23:29 PM »

Lord have Mercy for they know not what they do:   WOW GUYS Put it to bed : It's not even available and you're arguing about legal situations?  JMO but it seems like many of you are so obsessed that actually getting one will be a let down: LOL JMO

NOTE: If offended this may apply to you:

There should be a comma after offended.
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Aussie E
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« Reply #33 on: December 19, 2016, 09:19:38 PM »



AE
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kfeltenberger
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« Reply #34 on: December 19, 2016, 11:09:42 PM »

You flip a Rudolf Hess on the table, and I counter with Godwin's Law...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
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Kurt
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« Reply #35 on: December 20, 2016, 03:56:42 AM »

To Godwin's Law:  Ha, and this topic was only about 1.5 pages long.  Roll Eyes

To Kfelt: Seriously. Why/How did you even know Godwin's Law existed?
Do you peruse the Oxford much?

That is all.

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Chief Master
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« Reply #36 on: December 20, 2016, 04:51:50 PM »

While we're at it, I'll just leave this here:
https://youtu.be/N4vf8N6GpdM
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kfeltenberger
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« Reply #37 on: December 20, 2016, 09:00:40 PM »

To Godwin's Law:  Ha, and this topic was only about 1.5 pages long.  Roll Eyes

To Kfelt: Seriously. Why/How did you even know Godwin's Law existed?
Do you peruse the Oxford much?

That is all.

I'm on a hard science RPG list for Traveller, a RPG that's been around since the late 70s, that at one time had quite a few eccentric personalities.  It seems that whenever one of the habitual flamewar threads came up (Near C rocks, piracy in the 3d Imperium, female Aslan in comfortable shoes, etc.) back in the day, one of these folks would eventually drive it to some sort of **** comparison.  Thus whenever someone played a "Godwin's Law flag" on the thread it was a subtle signal for everyone to retreat to their corner and take a pause before things got really out of hand.

Part of the problem was that you had traditional sci-fi gamers who knew enough about science to sound knowledgeable and run roughshod over their own gaming groups, but when confronted by people who really knew what they were talking about (and at one time we counted several JPL researchers as listmembers, not to mention comp-sci and engineering professors and professionals...) things got heated when "I know" slammed head first into "the truth".
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Kurt
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« Reply #38 on: December 21, 2016, 01:11:13 PM »

Well personally I'm going to wait how it will handle IV8888 (youtuber) meltdown of the MDR.  I'm still waiting for the tavor meltdown. Well I hope he does a tavor meltdown. That would be a great torture test

Sent from my ZTE A2017U using Tapatalk

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kfeltenberger
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« Reply #39 on: December 21, 2016, 09:32:52 PM »

Well personally I'm going to wait how it will handle IV8888 (youtuber) meltdown of the MDR.  I'm still waiting for the tavor meltdown. Well I hope he does a tavor meltdown. That would be a great torture test

The meltdown videos are "cute", but beyond that, they really don't do much for me other than I get a chance to waste 20 minutes watching some rednecks destroy a rifle by making it do something that it would never be made to do "in the wild".  It's interesting in a dick measuring perspective, but beyond that, I rather see the rifle be subjected to measured tests that will actually test it against specific criteria. 

If you want to really impress me, and show viewers that you're really interested in doing a viable test, subject the rifle to some of the tests that the SIG-550 was subjected to or just use the NATO test standards.

http://www.biggerhammer.net/sigamt/550/550techinspection/
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Kurt
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