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Author Topic: RDB Accuracy Thread  (Read 7068 times)
HBeretta
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« on: December 06, 2016, 09:35:45 PM »

Wanted to do this sooner - see below for results.  I went to Walmart and bought pretty much all they offer in 223 Rem which is Federal 55gr Value pack 100 rnds and Federal American Eagle 55gr.  I'm running a Vortex Strike Eagle 1-6x and bore-sighted it for 50yds.  So after getting on paper and adjusting, I starting firing 4-5 shots groups.  Did shoot a 7 shot group as well.  I went about all this casually...didn't want to spend all day trying for the best groups or using a secure rest fine tuning etc...  So with some lazy shooting and a quick zero at 100 yds I'm happy to say the gun is pretty damn accurate.  Also, the 'X' shots are from just getting on paper at 100yds to zero and another from a shooter just a lane over to my right.  Results below equate to 1.7" moa average from 100yds for this session.  Now I'm anxious to test match grade ammo.  

Ammo Used



Rest Used


Group 1 - American Eagle ∙ 5 shot ∙ 1.875" moa


Group 2 - Amercian Eagle ∙ 7 shot ∙ 2" moa


Group 3 - American Eagle ∙ 4 shot ∙ .75" moa


Group 4
- Federal ∙ 5 shot ∙ 1.5" moa


Group 5 - Federal ∙ 5 shot ∙ 2.375" moa




« Last Edit: December 06, 2016, 09:38:36 PM by HBeretta » Logged
Frostburg
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« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2016, 04:19:30 PM »

I have also gotten accurate groupings with mine.  Smiley
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Tj7
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« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2016, 10:31:37 PM »

Some very impressive groups with just 55gr! I would wonder how much match ammo would improve the groups. I can't wait to pick one up and do some testing with it, I am still waiting for OD.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2016, 10:33:54 PM by Tj7 » Logged

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Frostburg
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« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2016, 11:11:50 PM »

Some very impressive groups with just 55gr! I would wonder how much match ammo would improve the groups. I can't wait to pick one up and do some testing with it, I am still waiting for OD.

You still don't have one yet??    Undecided
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Frostburg
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« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2016, 11:13:00 PM »

I love mine. I am also planning on buying a 20" barrel one once they come out.
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HBeretta
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« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2016, 01:23:16 PM »

I love mine. I am also planning on buying a 20" barrel one once they come out.

same i'm becoming more impresssed with the gun and haven't had any issues aside from the fluke firing pin, BUT...must admit now...likely user error on my behalf.  when disassembling the bolt and removing the firing pin retainer pin it went flying onto my ceramic tile in the kitchen.  at that point i didn't really look for damage and the malfunction did occur on the next range session after inspecting/tinkering with the bolt assembly.  regardless, it's been smooth shooting with a variety of mags and tends to stay pretty clean between range sessions; cleaner than my fs2000.  it's light, has the best stock bullpup trigger and is very accurate...tough to beat considering competing bullpups run $700-1000+ more.    
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BullpupT
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« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2016, 01:37:33 PM »

Great groups! I wish I had a 100 yard indoor range. JEALOUS Grin
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HBeretta
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« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2016, 04:42:40 PM »

Thanks man!  I'm hoping others follow suit with posting results.  i've got a utg riser on the way for my fs2000 (optic ver) with the plan to mount the vortex 1-6x on it to compare groups.  then down the road...the tavor or x95 is next.  i still can't accept the accuracy issue with the x95; want one to shoot for myself to believe it.  well i want the x95 period.
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HBeretta
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« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2017, 01:42:37 AM »

Tj7 posted an article on the RFB and RDB by American Rifleman (link below) that got me thinking about the accuracy of the RDB.  I realize each gun is unique but more or less consistent to a certain level of accuracy.  Obviously, accuracy issues are sussed out in no time when a new product hits the market.  An example of this is the x95.  But, that's not to say all x95s suffer from accuracy problems as many report fairly good accuracy on a consistent basis.  Point is, I'm always intrigued by various end user results with regard to accuracy on a given platform or in particular a specific product.  Speaking to the bullpup platform, it appears 3 MOA is the expected standard.  I'll admit, I became anxious when I got to the accuracy portion of this article - always do with regard to accuracy.

The first time I decided to document my RDB accuracy (posted on this forum) I was quite surprised to average 1.7 MOA from 100 yds.  That hasn't been the case on subsequent range trips, but of course there have been variables to go along with that.  I've averaged closer to 3 MOA recently and started to wonder if the first time out was a fluke.  The variables that I speak of are not cleaning the bore on one occasion and extremely cold on another occasion (indoor range cycling in outside air - felt like 30-40 degrees).  Along with this, I made more of an effort to try to be accurate on subsequent efforts versus the initial carefree laxed approach which in retrospect may of been why i shot better groups.  Anyway, I do plan on setting up on a secure rest and giving my gun more of proper accuracy test when the weather improves as my indoor range simply doesn't have the bench space.

Likewise, even with various loads, Jeff Johnston from AR averaged 2.88 MOA from 100 yds.  Surprisingly there wasn't much of a difference with match and standard AE 55 grain.  I've stuck to AE 55 grain on my accuracy tests.  I've read other users averaging 2.5-3 MOA with the RDB as well.  I still feel compelled to test my gun further to see if that first outing of testing and sub MOA group i hit wasn't the fluke that it likely was.  Anyway, anyone else out here pretty much getting the same with their RDB?  

 

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/1/23/tested-kel-tec-rfb-rdb-bullpups/#
« Last Edit: January 24, 2017, 01:48:38 AM by HBeretta » Logged
Potss
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« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2017, 01:06:26 AM »

The results with the RDB are promising.

What we really need is someone who reloads to test the accuracy with high quality components after doing a ladder to find their barrels node.  Then locking it down for the test.  That would be the best approximation of absolute mechanical accuracy.

The more expensive version of the test is to just try out different types of match ammo till you find one your barre likes best.  I ended up doing that for my SPR, and the differences were pretty staggering and unexpected.  Black Hills 60gr Vmax and 77gr TMKs would barely do an inch, while HSM 55gr Bergers would do .62moa (all 5x5) for my Lothar Walther barrel.  Likewise Nosler Varmageddon's group in the .7s but Sierra Blitzkings (from Gorilla) I cannot get under 1in.  I'd recommend trying this for your RDB if you don't reload.  At 100y flat base bullets have an advantage over the higher BC boat tails all else being equal.  Here is a list of my results and Molon's results so far, might be a place to start:

.223- GECO 55gr Target 1.2" $.35/r.

5.56- Mk. 262 Mod 1 1.1" $1.06/r.

.223- Federal Fusion 62gr 1.004" $.862/r Gold dots almost as good (including 64 & 75gr $.75/r), Fed Tactical bonded better $1.50/r.

5.56- Black Hills New 75gr Match 1" $.92/r.

.223- Fiocchi 77gr Exacta .995" $.78/r

.223- Nosler Custom Competition 77gr OTM .98" $.964/r.

5.56- IMI razercore 77gr otm .95" $.747/r.

.223- Hornady 75gr Steel Match .95" $.44/r (55gr not much worse 1.3" $.34/r) Will not cut barrel life.

.223- Prvi partizan 75gr Match .91" $.525/r.

.223- Cor-bon 69gr Match .88" $1.10/r.

.223- Austrilian Outback 69gr SMK .86" $.65/r.

.223- Hornady American Gunner 55gr HP .85" $.55/r.

.223 Noveske 55gr Nosler Varmagedon .82" $1.10/r

5.56- Barnes Precision Match 85gr OTM .81" $1.24/r

.223- Stillwood Ammo 77gr Sierra TMK .8" $.86/r.

.223- Hornady 53gr Superformane Varmit Vmax .70" $.799/r

.223- Federal Gold Medal Match 69gr .67" $1/r (2590fps avg), 77gr also recommended $1.10/r

.223- HSM 55gr Berger Match Flat Base .64" $1.47/r.

Ammo that hasn't been tested but might be decent:

Lapua 55gr and 69gr.

Prime Ammo 55gr and 77gr Match+

Monolithic Munitions 40gr and 60gr Gold.

Atlanta Arms 77gr TMK.

Copper Creek 77gr loads.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2017, 11:01:41 PM by Potss » Logged
HBeretta
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« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2017, 02:24:48 AM »

very nice.  what was your test environment?
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Potss
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« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2017, 11:00:30 PM »

Mine is an open 200y range with berms in a small valley, so low wind.  Molon's is an even more enclosed 100y range, he has pics up if you want to see it.
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BrianK
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« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2017, 12:02:39 PM »

I'd been having accuracy problems with the RDB and it was suggested that I check the rail. So the other day I had time to check it. It was good except for the last screw closest to the breech. Today I fired it.

Previously it was all over the paper, disappointingly so. Today it was much better.
Here's the group I shot with Federal FC 262 77grOTM: https://www.dropbox.com/s/1rdwlxr5vza79am/5_11_17%20RDB%20group_FedFC262%2077grOTM%20100yds.jpg?dl=0

Conditions were 50F and gusty wind. The range was 100 yards and it was shot from the bench.

It measures just a hair under 1" center to center. That's the limit of my eyes and the 4x scope.

But I put the can on it and I'm not even on the paper at 100 yards. So I backed up to 40 yards and the group was 6" high. I need to decide if I'm going to shoot it suppressed all the time or unsuppressed. I'm leaning toward unsuppressed. Or maybe I'll contact KT and get another barrel assembly and stress that the threads must be concentric to the bore.  Comments?

I'm happy with the way it's shooting, just not with the POI shift suppressed.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2017, 12:32:23 PM by BrianK » Logged
Laserbait
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« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2017, 10:18:43 PM »

Brain, what kind of suppressor do you have?  My Omega 7.62 does not shift my POI that I have noticed.
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- Joseph
Bushmaster M17S   - JARD J67
Keltec RFB 18"   - Keltec RDB 1:9
BrianK
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« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2017, 11:21:19 PM »

A Surefire FA556k. It is noted for not shifting impact, and doesn't on any of my other guns. I'm thinking that the threads on the RDB aren't aligned with the bore, and with my Gisselle gauge it looks OK. I'm not getting baffel strikes.

I took the adapter off and have the OEM flash hider on it at this time. I gave up on suppressing it for now. I'll wait for the MDR to come in and my bets are on it. It's 2 strikes against the RDB at this time.
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Laserbait
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« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2017, 01:49:27 PM »

A buddy of mine was having a similar issue with a suppressor of his (I think it was a Griffen, or Dead Air, can't remember).  Anyway, it turned out to be his QD muzzle device was the problem.  Something was "off" with it.  He swapped it for another one from a different rifle, and the POI shift went away.
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- Joseph
Bushmaster M17S   - JARD J67
Keltec RFB 18"   - Keltec RDB 1:9
BrianK
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« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2017, 07:03:56 PM »

I'll try that. Thanks.
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Potss
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« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2017, 03:06:03 AM »

I'm still looking forward to folks trying out 5x5 or 3x10 with some premium match ammo like the stuff mentioned above Smiley.
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HBeretta
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« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2017, 04:37:49 PM »


Previously it was all over the paper, disappointingly so. Today it was much better.
Here's the group I shot with Federal FC 262 77grOTM: https://www.dropbox.com/s/1rdwlxr5vza79am/5_11_17%20RDB%20group_FedFC262%2077grOTM%20100yds.jpg?dl=0

Conditions were 50F and gusty wind. The range was 100 yards and it was shot from the bench.

It measures just a hair under 1" center to center. That's the limit of my eyes and the 4x scope.


i went to my indoor range today.  i have a lot of bulk 55gr ammo that i'm going through; xmas gift.  i keep telling myself i'm going to take photos but seem to be lazy about it.  after checking my zero and adjusting i shot 5 shot groups at 100 yds the entire session.  i realize to get a general idea of where your shots are hitting a 3 shot group works just fine, but prefer 5 shot groups or more to get a better idea of accuracy.  many times i found myself hovering around an inch or slightly more 3 shots in, but the 4th and 5th shots opened up my groups to about 2" average for the session.  i did have two 3-3.5" groups, but more often than not i was hovering around 2" groups.

my rdb seems to be a 2-2.5" 100yd gun for me which is entirely subjective obviously.  the next guy could come in shooting 1" groups regularly, but i'm the one shooting the gun.  i've hit below 2" for a session but on average i seem to hover right around 2".  i don't like shooting from a sled because i don't feel it's practical.  i try to get away with as good as i can get with as little as possible.  today i was basically resting the gun on my magazine pouch with the empty mags as the stool and table height required just a little for me.  otherwise, for comfort i'll setup with bag and rest.  

i went in today with the intent to post feedback here with photos, but that didn't happen.  lol...i did manage to snap a quick photo of the lane and text to my brother just to give him crap while he's slaving at work while i'm enjoying the next two days off...go figure.      

  
« Last Edit: May 18, 2017, 04:41:17 PM by HBeretta » Logged
BrianK
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« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2017, 05:17:24 PM »

HB' do you have any heavy bulletted loads? I don't remember the twist on the RDB (1:7 or 1:Cool, but I remember thinking to myself that it favors heavier bullets. Mine certainly appears to reflect that.
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