Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
August 11, 2020, 02:04:31 AM
Home Home Help Calendar Login Register
News:

Please support BullpupForum.com sponsors!!
. . . Midwest Industries . . . BullpupArmory.com . . . Shooting Sight . . . BullpupUnlimited.com . . . Homeland Guns . . . . . . . . . . . . Desert Tech . . . GallowayPrecision.com . . . K & M Arms . . . . . . Geissele Automatics
+  BULLPUP FORUM
|-+  General Category
| |-+  General Discussion
| | |-+  From the 6.5 Grendel Bullpup Situation Room
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 8 Print
Author Topic: From the 6.5 Grendel Bullpup Situation Room  (Read 158429 times)
BULLPUPBEST
^
Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 34


« Reply #40 on: May 05, 2013, 02:49:37 PM »

 Grin  cheer leader  anyone? Excited! blasting

** Yes,,,,.6.5 grendel or 6.8 spc.....is a must for knocking down ICE/DOPE/COKE 21 CENTURY ZOMBIE..,....**
 
** I predict 223 will be replaced in the long future when all other non-nato countries are holding more powerful modern calibers .....suck with the top generals **
Logged
SHORT-N-SASSY
^
Bullpup Fanatic
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,024



« Reply #41 on: May 11, 2013, 11:53:47 AM »

Having noted that "6.5 Grendel" was not among the cartridges listed on the excellent ammo-availability Site, gunbot.net, I E-mailed them, "Was just advised of your helpful Site! Looking for 6.5 Grendel ammo. Can you assist."

Their reply, "It should be added soon."

 UPDATE: Gunbot.net just added "6.5 Grendel" to the list of cartridges on their live inventory. Check it out!
Logged
SHORT-N-SASSY
^
Bullpup Fanatic
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,024



« Reply #42 on: May 27, 2013, 12:45:10 PM »

That the 6.5 Grendel looks good on paper is quite evidenced in these pages.   
Summing up the 6.5 Grendel: The Little Cartridge That Could!

Even, at 1200 yards!

There's an enlightening Post over at the friendly 6.5 Grendel Discussion Forums, under, "6.5 Grendel ARs and Other Semi-Autos," that will raise your eye brows, Took My 16" Grendel Out To 1200 Yards This Weekend. --- ". . . so basically a 3ft x 4ft oval target. I was surprised at how easy it was to hit consistently and repeatedly at 1200 yards with the little 16" Grendel, which I had written off as an 800-yard gun, max. . . . This is making me re-think the maximum effective range of the little carbine, and I will be playing with it a lot more at twice the distances I normally do. I'm very interested to see how it will group on paper/cardboard or steel at 1200 yards, because the shots were right where I wanted them. I chrono'd the factory Hornady 123-gr A-MAX earlier in the day, and it was running between 2460 and 2470 fps for me from the 16" AA ER Shaw button-rifled pipe."

All in all, the Report is a must read!
Logged
Iceman13
New Posting Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1


« Reply #43 on: May 30, 2013, 03:04:08 PM »

6.5 is the wrong course to take.

6.8 SPC is the "true 800m cartridge" and has infinitely more support behind it now, than the 6.5 grendal ever could in 100years time.



Really ?

That doesn't sound right so I had to google it.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_121/560571_.html&page=1

It actually seems many manufacturers are abandoning the 6.8, whereas the Grendel 6.5, now being SAMMI since late 2011, is flourishing.

Thanks for the link that is coming up on being a year old.

When Federal starts pumping out HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of rounds of ammo in 6.5 grendal and when MAGPUL makes a dedicated magazine for the 6.5 grendal, get back to me.


Unfortunately, those hundereds of millions of rounds do not appear to be anywhere in the near future!
Logged
SHORT-N-SASSY
^
Bullpup Fanatic
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,024



« Reply #44 on: May 30, 2013, 07:11:14 PM »

I today sent the following Reply to Beretta U.S.A. Corp. Vice President, Product Marketing, Rafe Bennett:

"Mr. Bennett,

Thank you for your reply and for sharing Beretta USA's future plans for the new ARX100. I'll take this opportunity to applaud Beretta USA for acknowledging the importance of Customer input, particularly, in today's fiercely competetive marketplace.

Re your comments on the forward-thinking Bullpup configuration, I dare state, that if the Beretta Design Team was commissioned to design a 21st Century weapon that not only challenged the FN SCAR, ACR, but also incorporated within the total breakthrough design package a highly-innovative instant left / right ambi-ejection system (paralleling the equally-innovative front-ejection system of the FN F2000/FS2000 and Kel-Tec RFB), for a future state-of-the-art lefty- / righty-friendly Bullpup model, their ARX-160 filled the bill, admirably. My hat off to the Design Team --- bold ideas move the industry, forward!

Enter the hard truth: Innovation in the gun industry, By Kate O'Connell, WXXI News, February 6, 2013 (http://wxxinews.org/post/innovation-gun-industry) --- "Gun manufacturers walk a fine line between catering to a demand for traditional weapons and the need to remain abreast of the technological developments that other industries are seeing. . . ." Beretta, with its all-encompassing ARX-160 design, remains the only gun manufacturer (using the traditional side-ejection) that offers true ambi-ejection --- reinstating Citizen-First-Class status to a third of the world's shooters, who choose to / need to shoot a rifle from the left shoulder. Helpful in any number of tactical situations, ambi- / forward-ejection is an absolute necessity, in a Bullpup configuration. Indeed, any number of shooters made the point, when the ARX-160 was first introduced, "Great feature for a Bullpup!" And, to those who would  suggest that reloading Bullpups is not as easy as reloading other auto-loading rifles, the Internet offers a number of videos, which dispel the myth. I include a few, here:

1, RFB Reload.WMV (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78kPa34sJpI);
2, Bullpup Rifles: Part 1 - The Concept - YouTube (www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNKvlV1oxfw);
3, Bullpups [don't] Suck - Part 2 - AUG reload - YouTube (www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7838mJhMvM).

Mr. Bennett, I submit that the "future" is now!

Lastly, re upcoming calibers for the ARX100: the 6.5 Grendel. WolfAmmo.com today advised that low-cost Wolf 6.5mm Grendel steel case ammo will be available 4th quarter, 2013.

Your consideration is appreciated. Thank you.

Sincerely,"
« Last Edit: May 30, 2013, 07:17:03 PM by SHORT-N-SASSY » Logged
SHORT-N-SASSY
^
Bullpup Fanatic
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,024



« Reply #45 on: June 10, 2013, 08:06:25 PM »

From today's FoxNews.com Home Page, MAC 'UNLIKE ANY': Apple Unveils New Computers, Software, along with related news items from the fast-moving Electonics Industry, New i0S7 a Fresh Look for iPhones, and, Microsoft Announces Hundreds of New Games Coming to Xbox 360, and, Germans Create Lithium-Ion EV Batteries That Could Last For 25 Years.

An avid fan of high-tech firearms, rather than high-tech electronics, I then checked the BullpupForum.com Home Page to see what's new/upcoming. The Topic that caught my attention was, 6.5 Grendel?. I clicked on it. In a recent Post, a Member stated, "I didn't find anything on the forum here, but a quick Google shows that Kel-Tec was (at least at one point) going to make this firearm in the 6.5 Grendel. Is there any news on that? . . ." And, in response to this reasonable question, there followed an honest Repy, ". . . Kel-Tec is pushed to just produce the base platforms. So I don't think they are looking at a different caliber anytime this year (at least). . . ."                         

Now, it's my long-held position that Bullpups represent the future of firearms design. That said, I wasn't shocked to read, "Gun manufacturers walk a fine line between catering to a demand for traditional weapons and the need to remain abreast of the technological developments that other industries are seeing. . . ." --- [The Serious Lack of] Innovation in the gun industry, By Kate O'Connell (see May 30, 2013, 7:11 Post, above). From my experience, that's a nice way of stating that, like it or not, the majority of the shooting world is very traditional-minded (read: quite comfortable with mid-20th Century designs --- and will come up with any number of reasons why we all should be quite content to just stay in place), and their "vote" runs the industry. I dare state that the forward-thinking views expressed on our Bullpup Forum are received as nothing less than "Alien," on other Forums. And, that's based on my personal experiences --- it's nasty, out there!

The bottom line, in the world of politics, or in the world of firearms: the loudest voice gets the most attention --- and thus, change!   

 
Logged
jsolo
.
Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 64


« Reply #46 on: June 13, 2013, 06:03:11 AM »

Sorry I have not checked this forum Im always on the Tavor forum.I have not done anything with my grendel that is about to change.Im looking for a optic now I like the vortex stuff I want to get as much power as I can.I finally have some 6.5 rds. I got some Hornady 123grn. a-max and alexander arms 123 lapua scenar that are hollow points.I know the a-max are what I will be shooting over 500 yds with.I am looking at optics now so when I get one I hope to share some info.             Jerry
Logged
SHORT-N-SASSY
^
Bullpup Fanatic
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,024



« Reply #47 on: June 23, 2013, 03:03:32 AM »

A discussion surrounding the limited capabilities of the 5.56x45mm NATO round  beyond 300 meters (328 yards), over at the BullpupForum.com Thread, "Really?? No problems/issues to report about new SARs, at all??," I believe is a bit off topic. The Tavor SAR is an outstanding example of a modern Bullpup rifle. Period!

Fact is: the 5.56x45mm received lavish praise from Special Operations units and advisers working with troops in the South Vietnamese jungle, back in the early 1960's. That in large part prompted its adoption by NATO.  The rest is history. The discussion mentioned, "'Taking back the Half Kilometer," by an Army Officer who cites the lack of distance capabilities in our current primary weapon systems based on the 5.56.  Indeed, the November 30, 2009 Report, Increasing Small Arms Lethality in Afghanistan: Taking Back the Infantry Half-Kilometer, By Major Thomas P. Ehrhart, United States Army, is a worthwhile read. And, the Major makes the case that, though Operations in Afghanistan frequently require United States ground forces to engage and destroy the enemy beyond 300 meters, the current equipment (M4 chambered for the 5.56x45mm NATO cartridge), training and doctrine are optimized for engagements under 300 meters. A chapter in the Report, "Alternate Calibers," includes a comparison of the 6.8 SPC and the 6.5 Grendel.

The Report suggests that the 5.56x45mm NATO round (M855, 62-grain, 16" Barrel Muzzle Velocity (MV) - 2984 fps, Ballistic Coefficient (BC) - 0.283) is effective, up to 300 meters. Using the retained Kinetic Energy of that round, at 300 meters (538 ft. lbs.), as a parameter, I compare the following cartridges (all, based on velocites from 16" barrels): MK262, 77-grain, BC- 0.362, MV - 2650 fps.; .300 AAC Blackout, 125-grain, BC - 0.330, MV - 2215 fps; 6.8 SPC, 140-grain Berger VLD, BC - 0.487, MV - 2401 (NOTE: This load is approx. 5,000 PSI above the SAAMI 6.5 Grendel, and has a Cartridge Overall Length of 2.315" vs 2.260" for the Grendel); 6.5 Grendel, 144-grain Lapua FMJBT, BC - 0.636, MV - 2275 fps:

M855 - 538 ft.lbs. @ approx. 328 yards (300 meters);
MK262 - 538 ft.lbs. @ approx. 394 yards;
.300 AAC Blackout - 538 ft.lbs. @ approx. 388 yards;
6.8 SPC - 538 ft.lbs. @ approx. 760 yards;
6.5 Grendel - 538 ft.lbs. @ approx. 925 yards.
      

I yesterday came across an article which topic is pertinent to this Discussion, An Army Outgunned: Physics Demands A New Basic Combat Weapon, By Joseph P. Avery, Ph.D, Millitary Review, July-August 2012 --- ". . . Despite an increasing portfolio of enemies that are flexible, well armed, and robust, our Army, Marine Corps, and special operations forces have been stuck for decades hauling assault rifles firing NATO 5.56x45 millimeter (mm) (2.23 caliber) varmint rounds over a half-century old. A decade into a new century, we need to adopt a more robust projectile and basic combat weapon (BCW) to meet current and emerging performance requirements. . . . In another attempt to address the significant shortfalls of our current BCW, the Army recently developed the lead-free, M855A1, 5.56mm, 62 gr. Enhanced Performance Round, tipped with a steel arrow penetrator and more powerful propellant. . . . The physics of external ballistics and current and future combat environments appear to demand a new caliber of weapons --- whether or not based on the M16 chassis. Many firearm experts, combat users, and studies have recommended the heavier and modernized 123 gr., 6.5x39mm Grendel Lapua Scenar cartridge as a replacement for the current 5.56mm NATO and possibly the 7.62mm NATO, as well. . . . There is also the a possibility that a 6.5mm cartridge, which fits into the 5.56mm magazine, could also be 'enhanced' with a steel penatrator and more powerful propellant. That would provide the 123 gr. package with theoretically double the devastation and longer range than the M855A1 Enhanced Performance Round, giving our forces the edge in any combat environment and at any range. . . ."

Using the 538 ft.lbs. parameter and 16-inch carbine barrel length established above, let's add to the above list: 1, the new M855A1 Enhanced Performance Round, 2970 fps muzzle velocity, with 62-grain steel-core projectile, 0.371 Ballistic Coefficient, 538 ft.lbs. @ 425 yards.; 2, the 6.5mm Grendel round, 2523 fps muzzle velocity, with 123-grain Lapua Scenar projectile, 0.547 Ballistic Coefficient, 538 ft.lbs. @ 850 yards.

NOTE: " --- whether or not based on the M16 chassis." Could it be that others have come to realize that which we, here at the Bullpup Forum, have long known?   
Logged
SHORT-N-SASSY
^
Bullpup Fanatic
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,024



« Reply #48 on: August 15, 2013, 02:12:05 AM »

I must confess that I exercised restraint, when I simply offered, "Desert Camo," to the BULLPUP FORUM Post, Steyr requests input from Consumers: New Stock Colors for A3 AUG.

What came to mind (read: What would really capture today's Bullpup market, in my view) is an advanced, purpose-built Steyr AUG A3 6.5mm Grendel "Limited Edition" Model --- in Desert Camo.

. . .

Now, the 6.5mm Creedmoor is well-established among the elite list of cartridges for long-range work. Therefore, I reviewed with some interest, Short Barrel 6.5mm Rifle - Sin City Precision 6.5mm Creedmoor (http://www.sincityprecision.com/?p=1503), as it relates to the 6.5mm Grendel, in a short-barreled rifle. From a 6.5mm Creedmoor 16.5" barreled bolt-action rifle, 2575 fps with the 139-grain Lapua Scenar projectile. Compare that to a 6.5mm Grendel 16.5" barreled bolt-action rifle, 2500 - 2550 fps with the same bullet! 

Logged
SHORT-N-SASSY
^
Bullpup Fanatic
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,024



« Reply #49 on: August 22, 2013, 05:09:14 AM »

[quote author=SHORT-N-SASSY link=topic=1060.msg30773#msg30773 date=1370909185                        
. . . Now, it's my long-held position that Bullpups represent the future of firearms design. That said, I wasn't shocked to read, "Gun manufacturers walk a fine line between catering to a demand for traditional weapons and the need to remain abreast of the technological developments that other industries are seeing. . . ." --- [The Serious Lack of] Innovation in the gun industry, By Kate O'Connell (see May 30, 2013, 7:11 Post, above). From my experience, that's a nice way of stating that, like it or not, the majority of the shooting world is very traditional-minded (read: quite comfortable with mid-20th Century designs --- and will come up with any number of reasons why we all should be quite content to just stay in place), and their "vote" runs the industry. . . . The bottom line, in the world of politics, or in the world of firearms: the loudest voice gets the most attention --- and thus, change! . . . [/quote]


Continuing an "end run" around that "line" that would keep up anchored to the 20th Century, I recently wrote Freedom Group, Inc. Chairman & C.E.O., George Kollitides:

"Dear Mr. Chairman:

I applaud the Remington Design Team for giving our sport shooting world the R-15 .30 Remington AR: a rifle with a robust AR-10 breech, in a lighter, shorter AR-15 platform. The concept is a long time coming. And, I dare state its arrival is welcomed by many.

So, at a time when rifles and ammunition "are flying off the shelves," why does a quick check of two major gun distributors, Budsgunshop.com and Grabagun.com, reveal that the Remington R-15, .30 RAR, is "Instock," while other R-15 Models are "Out of stock"? And, a check of popular ammunition distributor, Midwayusa.com, shows that of the four products listed under .30 Remington AR, two are "In stock," while many other calibers are Out of stock. I submit that the otherwise desirable R-15 .30 RAR platform is shackled by a cartridge, which downrange performance fails to impress, and which single-stack, low-capacity magazine and odd-sized case rim diameter both leave much to be desired.

In view of the above, let's consideer a 21st Century-designed cartridge, with impressive downrange performance, that double-stacks in an AR-15 magazine and which case rim diameter, midway between the 5.56x45 and the .30 Remington AR, is shared by other cartridges. Already impressive, in the standard AR-15 platform, its performance really shines in bolt-action rifles: the 6.5mm Grendel. Typical wait times for 6.5mm Grendel Barreled Upper Receivers are measured in months. And, a check with Midwayusa.com, "Ammunition," reveals that of the seven 6.5mm Grendel products, all, are Out of stock.

Let's compare the retained velocity, energy values of the .30 Remington AR, 150-grain Core-Lokt Pointed Soft Point (BC - 0.314), Muzzle Velocity - 2575 fps (24" test barrel), with the 6.5mm Grendel, 139-grain Lapua Scenar (BC - 0.615), Muzzle Velocity - 2305 fps (16" bbl. AR-15) and 2700 fps (22" bbl. bolt-action rifle), at 300, 400 and 500 yards:

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 300 yards . . . . . . . 400 yards . . . . . . 500 yards

24" R-15, .30 Remington AR: 1804 fps/1084 ft-lb, 1588 fps/840 ft-lb, 1397 fps/650 ft-lb;

16" AR-15, 6.5mm Grendel: 1922 fps/1140 ft-lb, 1804 fps/1005 ft-lb, 1692 fps/884 ft-lb;

22" Bolt, 6.5mm Grendel: 2277 fps/1600 ft-lb, 2147 fps/1423 ft-lb, 2020 fps/1259 ft-lb.

In short: the 6.5mm Grendel is a prime candidate chambering for the R-15 .30 RAR platform. Unencumbered by the penalties its increased Bolt Thrust on the smaller AR-15 breech impose, it can fly with the super-size AR-10 breech --- and, a 2.300" length magazine, please!

Sincerely,"

« Last Edit: August 22, 2013, 05:35:15 AM by SHORT-N-SASSY » Logged
SHORT-N-SASSY
^
Bullpup Fanatic
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,024



« Reply #50 on: September 30, 2013, 12:21:31 AM »

Friendly Agitators for a 6.5mm Grendel Bullpup, both Bullpup Forum Members and Guests (and Ken's buddy "Tony"), as September, 2013 draws to a close, let's take note of (read: delight in) the "Steve Jobs teachable moment" unveiling in the Bullpup Forum Thread, K&M Arms M17S Billet Lower, which debuted on September 8, 2013.

Notable, due to its relative rarity in the gun industry (http://innovationtrail.org/post/innovation-gun-industry), I think it's fair to state that this stellar example of entrepreneurship marks the beginning of the end of the long wait for a 6.5mm Grendel Bullpup. And, from those of us who've long-recognized that Bullpups aren't just for close-range shooting scenarios, it's about time!
Logged
maleante
.
Bullpup Fanatic
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,161



« Reply #51 on: September 30, 2013, 12:18:55 PM »

Friendly Agitators for a 6.5mm Grendel Bullpup, both Bullpup Forum Members and Guests (and Ken's buddy "Tony"), as September, 2013 draws to a close, let's take note of (read: delight in) the "Steve Jobs teachable moment" unveiling in the Bullpup Forum Thread, K&M Arms M17S Billet Lower, which debuted on September 8, 2013.

Notable, due to its relative rarity in the gun industry (http://innovationtrail.org/post/innovation-gun-industry), I think it's fair to state that this stellar example of entrepreneurship marks the beginning of the end of the long wait for a 6.5mm Grendel Bullpup. And, from those of us who've long-recognized that Bullpups aren't just for close-range shooting scenarios, it's about time!

For all the interest you have in a 6.5 bullpup, I truly hope you get your wish! A man needs to live a happy life and die with a smile on his face, some sneaky suspicion tells me a 6.5 bullpup would make you complete in one facet of your life.  Grin
Logged
SHORT-N-SASSY
^
Bullpup Fanatic
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,024



« Reply #52 on: September 30, 2013, 04:08:37 PM »

maleante,

In my view, both the Bullpup configuration and the 6.5mm Grendel represent forward-thinking designs. Together, they're the antidote for the gun industry's stuck-in-the-20th-Century thinking.

I like your new avatar!
Logged
SHORT-N-SASSY
^
Bullpup Fanatic
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,024



« Reply #53 on: October 13, 2013, 04:20:06 AM »


I yesterday came across an article which topic is pertinent to this Discussion, An Army Outgunned: Physics Demands A New Basic Combat Weapon, By Joseph P. Avery, Ph.D, Millitary Review, July-August 2012 --- ". . . Despite an increasing portfolio of enemies that are flexible, well armed, and robust, our Army, Marine Corps, and special operations forces have been stuck for decades hauling assault rifles firing NATO 5.56x45 millimeter (mm) (2.23 caliber) varmint rounds over a half-century old. A decade into a new century, we need to adopt a more robust projectile and basic combat weapon (BCW) to meet current and emerging performance requirements. . . . In another attempt to address the significant shortfalls of our current BCW, the Army recently developed the lead-free, M855A1, 5.56mm, 62 gr. Enhanced Performance Round, tipped with a steel arrow penetrator and more powerful propellant. . . . The physics of external ballistics and current and future combat environments appear to demand a new caliber of weapons --- whether or not based on the M16 chassis. Many firearm experts, combat users, and studies have recommended the heavier and modernized 123 gr., 6.5x39mm Grendel Lapua Scenar cartridge as a replacement for the current 5.56mm NATO and possibly the 7.62mm NATO, as well. . . . There is also the a possibility that a 6.5mm cartridge, which fits into the 5.56mm magazine, could also be 'enhanced' with a steel penatrator and more powerful propellant. That would provide the 123 gr. package with theoretically double the devastation and longer range than the M855A1 Enhanced Performance Round, giving our forces the edge in any combat environment and at any range. . . ."  

Bullpup Forum Member, Tony Williams, posted a Link to an excellent article, on another Forum, which is relevant to this Discussion, as well, The Last 'Big Lie' of Vietnam Kills U.S. Soldiers in Iraq (http://americanthinker.com/2004/08/the_last_big_lie_of_vietnam_ki.html).

And, to update the recent Bullpup Forum Thread, We're "expecting": A 7-pound 6.5mm Grendel Bullpup, for left-shoulder operation!, I just received an E-mail from MidwayUSA.com advising me that my Order for 6.5mm Grendel cartridges has just been shipped, whereas, my Order for a 6.5mm Grendel 16" Barrel, with Bolt isn't expected to be shipped until the end of November --- which answers the question, at least in this case, "Which came first: the cartridge, or the gun"?
« Last Edit: October 13, 2013, 04:40:37 AM by SHORT-N-SASSY » Logged
Dane Gerus
^
Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 154



« Reply #54 on: December 06, 2013, 12:35:34 AM »

I think I missed some crucial detail.
Why does this K&M gun equate to the likelihood of a 6.5 bullpup?
I didn't see any mention of that caliber on their product page.
Logged
SHORT-N-SASSY
^
Bullpup Fanatic
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,024



« Reply #55 on: December 06, 2013, 12:59:57 AM »

I think I missed some crucial detail.
Why does this K&M gun equate to the likelihood of a 6.5 bullpup?
I didn't see any mention of that caliber on their product page.

"Yes, Yes Yes .300 blackout will be next then the 6.5mm Grendel . . ."
(http://bullpupforum.com/index.php?topic=4165.40) (Scroll down the Page to Reply #52, by srfnken).
Logged
SHORT-N-SASSY
^
Bullpup Fanatic
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,024



« Reply #56 on: December 14, 2013, 12:49:11 AM »

Why K&M Arms' decision to incorportate a beefy 3-lug Bolt in their 21st Century version of the M17S (http://bullpupforum.com/index.php?topic=4165.180) (Scroll down the Page to Reply #196) is a BIG DEAL, particularly, for the planned 6.5mm Grendel and .308 Winchester cartridges:

1, Let's examine the respective Bolt Thrust for the .223/5.56x45mm, 7.62x39mm/6.5mm Grendel and .308/7.62x51mm cartridges (http://www.beyond556.com/bboard/forum/ar-variant-rifle/technical-library/4587-bolt-thrust-faq?4802-Bolt-Thrust-FAQ=);

2, Let's look an AR-15 Bolt (designed for the .223/5.56x45mm family of cartridges) and an AR-10 Bolt (designed for the .308/7.62x51mm family of cartridges), in the face, keeping in mind the case rim diameters of the .223/5.56x45mm, 6.5mm Grendel and .308/7.62x51mm cartridges: 0.378", 0.443" and 0.473", respectively.
(http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?7277-Grendel-Evolution-AR10&p=74707) (Scroll down the Page to Reply #30);

3, Lets look at an AR-15 Bolt opened-up to accept the 6.5mm Grendel, when all the requirements of steel type, hardness, etc. were not met: broken lugs (http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?7287-why-would-bolt-break/page15) (Scroll down the Page to Reply #146);

4, The solution: Breech Bolt on Steroids, three variations on the theme:
(http://68forums.com/forums/showthread.php?13626-New-Bolt-for-the-264-LBC);
(http://rifleshooter.com/2011/07/rifleshooter-com-review-remington-r15-30ar-model-60100/) (Scroll down to photos #12, #13 and click-on the photos for close-up view);
The third variation, the three-lug Bolt, shown in the accompanying photo: left, M82 A1 Cal. .50 BMG; right, Leader T-2 5.56x45mm --- A-N-T-I-C-I-P-A-T-I-O-N !



ETA: Yet another example of the three-lug Bolt: Beretta RX4 / Benelli MR1 Tactical Carbine

« Last Edit: January 01, 2014, 04:56:45 AM by SHORT-N-SASSY » Logged
SHORT-N-SASSY
^
Bullpup Fanatic
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,024



« Reply #57 on: December 19, 2013, 02:24:08 AM »

I came across some information pertinent to my December 13, 2013 Post:

1, Leader 50: .50 BMG Semi-auto Bullpup Rifle
(http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011/05/20/leader-50-50-bmg-semi-auto-bullpup-rifle/) Scroll down to the "Comments," 14th Comment down, By Charles St.George, ". . . The triangular bolt was first used by me around 1976 and in the early Leader T2 prototypes. . . . The advantage with 3 lugs is that you can design the cam track to provide locking rotation from say 30 degrees up to 60 degrees. . . . Great lock up area and great delay in unlocking. . . ."

2, The Making of a Gun Designer: Charles St.George (http://cheaperthandirt.com/blog/?p=12748) --- ". . . The triangular bolt design (subsequently used on the Serbu rifle, the R4 and Barrett 82A1/M107) simplified the barrel extension and the bolt broaching process. . . ."

ETA:

Serbu BFG-50A 3-lug Bolt (http://www.serbu.com/images/BFG50ABOLT.jpg)
« Last Edit: December 19, 2013, 06:27:09 AM by SHORT-N-SASSY » Logged
SHORT-N-SASSY
^
Bullpup Fanatic
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,024



« Reply #58 on: December 29, 2013, 09:05:32 AM »

I today sent the following E-mail to Magpul Industries Founder, President & CEO, Richard M. Fitzpatrick:

"Subject: Magpul PDR Bullpup

" Dear Mr. Fitzpatrick:

"The 2014 SHOT Show is nearly upon us. And, as an avid Bullpup Enthusiast, I'm looking forward to new offerings from manufacturers.

"I think the Magpul PDR represents an exciting variation on the Bullpup theme, particularly, with its ultra-short overall length and welcome ambidextrous ejection system. However, to complement it's extraordinary 21st-Century all-tactical-situations-ready design, I believe that chambering one (or more) of the latest hotshot cartridges designed for the AR-15-length platform makes good marketing sense: .300 AAC Blackout; 6.8mm Remington SPC, 6.5mm Grendel.

"Muzzle Velocity/Energy, from a 12-inch barrel:

.223/5.56x45mm M193 (55 grain) - 2851 fps/993 ft-lbs;
.300 AAC Blackout, 110 grain - 2264 fps/1252 ft-lbs;
6.8mm Rem. SPC, 110 grain - 2381 fps/1385 ft-lbs;
6.5mm Grendel, 123 grain - 2330 fps/1483 ft-lbs;
6.5mm Grendel, 100 grain - 2600 fps/1501 ft-lbs.

"I submit that the Magpul PDR, chambered for these hotshots, is a success story waiting to happen.

"Sincerely,"
« Last Edit: December 29, 2013, 09:09:07 AM by SHORT-N-SASSY » Logged
SHORT-N-SASSY
^
Bullpup Fanatic
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,024



« Reply #59 on: January 16, 2014, 03:04:37 AM »

I today sent the following letter-input to Desert Tech President & CEO, Nick Young:

"Dear Mr. Young:

"First, I'll take this opportunity to applaud your recent decision re the Pakistan arms deal. My hat off to you for taking the high road.

"It was with great anticipation that I looked forward to the unveiling of the new Desert Tech Micro Dynamic Rifle (MDR). And, I shared with others the hope --- I dare state, the expectation --- that the highly enticing statement, 'Convertible between 5 calibers,' meant to include the 21st Century ultra-efficient, can-do 6.5mm Grendel cartridge.

"I've been working with Bullpup rifles, since the 1970's. I think it's fair to state that the term, 'Micro Dynamic Rifle,' represents the essence of a compact, easy-to-carry, all-purpose Bullpup rifle. Enter: the 'Micro Dynamic Cartridge,' the 6.5mm Grendel.

"Using 16" barrels, I've compared downrange Velocity (fps), Energy (ft-lbs) values for the 6.5mm Grendel (123-grain, BC - 0.510), the 6.8mm SPC (110-grain, BC - 0.370) and the .308 Winchester (150-grain, BC - 0.314), to 600 yards (Drift, with 10 mph crosswinds):

. . . 6.5mm Grendel . . . . . . 6.8mm SPC . . . . . . .308 Winchester
. . . Velocity/Energy . . . . . . Velocity/Energy . . . . Velocity/Energy
0 ---- 2460/1653 . . . . . . . . . 2550/1588 . . . . . . . . 2575/2208
100 - 2297/1441 . . . . . . . . . 2322/1317 . . . . . . . . 2306/1771
200 - 2140/1250 . . . . . . . . . 2106/1083 . . . . . . . . 2054/1405
300 - 1989/1081 . . . . . . . . . 1902/884 . . . . . . . . . 1819/1102
400 - 1845/930 . . . . . . . . . . 1711/715 . . . . . . . . . 1603/856
500 - 1709/797 . . . . . . . . . . 1537/577 . . . . . . . . . 1411/664
600 - 1580/682 (D, 32.3") . . 1380/465 (D, 45.9") . . 1249/520 (D, 56.2")

"NOTE: While the 6.5mm Grendel shares the same basic case, as the 7.62.39mm round, the Grendel's case taper is less, and doesn't require the "banana-shaped" magazine.

"On behalf of MDR Enthusiasts, who want an all-purpose cartridge, with half the recoil energy of the .308 Winchester round, your consideration is appreciated. Thank you.

"Sincerely,"
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 8 Print 
Jump to:  



Login with username, password and session length

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!