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| | |-+  From the 6.5 Grendel Bullpup Situation Room
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Author Topic: From the 6.5 Grendel Bullpup Situation Room  (Read 139296 times)
CabbitOne
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« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2013, 01:34:16 PM »

I'd be interested in a 6.5 grendel as well...
6.8/.300 anything not so much.
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racky
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« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2013, 02:05:47 PM »

Jsolo, Since the 6.5 Grendel is such a great "All-Around" cartridge (home defence-Plinking-3 gun-Hunting- & 1000-1200yd shooting,  I'm curious how you set-up your 6.5 AR??, What length barrell, what weight bullets (110-123-139-???) and especially what kind of optic do you use???
With such short-med-& long range capabilities of this cartridge, I'm guessing that you would have to use a CQB red dot mounted on a 6x scope to be able to utilize an optic that could handle the cartridge's performance??, what say you???
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SHORT-N-SASSY
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« Reply #22 on: March 12, 2013, 04:48:26 PM »

I recently E-mailed the following questions to Beretta Customer Support re the recently announced Beretta ARX-100 (the civilian version of their ARX-160):

1, What cartridges will this new model be chambered for, initially?
2, Is the very popular, can-do 6.5 Grendel chambering planned?
3, When will the first ARX-100's be shipped?

I today received the following response:

1) We have not yet been given any specifics beyond 5.56x45mm NATO, at this time.
2) We've not yet been told, however I would not rule it out.
3) That information is not yet available.

Upon the receipt of today's response, I took the opportunity of their "Customer Service Survey - Comments that you wish to share with us" form and submitted the following:

"First, considering Beretta's highly-innovative, designed-for-the-21st-Century ARX-160/ARX-100 models, particularly, re the instant ambi-ejection feature, I envision a lefty/righty-friendly Bullpup version, in the future. Second, an equally-innovative, designed-for-the-21st-Century cartridge, such as the highly-versatile 6.5 Grendel, is needed as the primary chambering. Such an exciting, forward-thinking combination is sure to be a welcome game-changer. The 'future' is now! May the Beretta 'passion' continue."  

"Site Ranking is #45"!
« Last Edit: March 12, 2013, 04:50:42 PM by SHORT-N-SASSY » Logged
maleante
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« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2013, 06:12:32 PM »

SnS, all 6.5 v 6.8 discussions aside, I hope that you get a 6.5 kit for ANY gun for all the persistence that you've exerted in your quest for a 6.5 non-AR rifle.  Smiley
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SHORT-N-SASSY
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« Reply #24 on: March 12, 2013, 07:02:10 PM »

maleante,

Thank you. And, for you, a 6.8 Bullpup kit! Moreover, considering their respective highly impressive ballistics, as detailed above, I wouldn't be surprised if both were offered in the future!  
« Last Edit: March 12, 2013, 07:05:29 PM by SHORT-N-SASSY » Logged
SHORT-N-SASSY
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« Reply #25 on: March 21, 2013, 12:22:35 AM »

I just sent the following E-mail-request to Beretta Customer Support:

"Beretta Customer Support:

I today typed 'Beretta ARX100' in my Google search block. And, for the first time, I got 'Beretta ARX100' over www.berettausa.com. That's encouraging!

I then clicked on 'Beretta ARX100' and was directed to a page on the official Beretta website, with the heading over a large blank section which read, 'BERETTA ARX100.'

Will a photo of the Beretta ARX-100, along with specifications, on same, be accompanying the 'BERETTA ARX100' heading, soon?

Your immediate response is appreciated. Thank you."

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brok3n
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« Reply #26 on: March 27, 2013, 05:43:35 PM »

Would love to have a 6.5 bullpup!

Ammo availability would be an issue though.. wasn't Wolf coming out with steel cased 6.5?
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SHORT-N-SASSY
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« Reply #27 on: March 28, 2013, 01:33:36 AM »

Would love to have a 6.5 bullpup!

Ammo availability would be an issue though.. wasn't Wolf coming out with steel cased 6.5?

brok3n,

Welcome to BullpupForum.com --- and to our Friendly Agitators for a 6.5 Grendel Bullpup Club!

Re the latest on the long-awaited, low-cost 6.5 Grendel Steel Case ammo from Wolf, check the "Thoughts on SHOT Show 2013" March 15, 2013 Update, right here on BullpupForum.com.

Moreover, step up and make your case for an auto-loading 6.5 Grendel Bullpup to today's Bullpup producers --- and to those BullpupForum.com Members currently working on tomorrow's Bullpups: Longziz; DesignGuy.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2013, 01:37:01 AM by SHORT-N-SASSY » Logged
brok3n
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« Reply #28 on: March 28, 2013, 12:04:58 PM »

Thank you for the welcome! I searched the boards and saw this:

Quote
And, in related news, Wolf has a full-page ad in the January, 2013 Western Shooting Journal featuring the Wolf Steel Case 6.5 Grendel ammo, as well as a side piece detailing the ballistics, "110-grain FMJ boattail bullet, with bimetal jacket, reported MV, 2,850 fps." I today called Wolfammo.com. I was advised that the 6.5 Grendel Steel Case ammo would be available sometime after March, 2013, and that the price would be compatible to their 5.56 Steel Case ammo. In that the bullet weight indicated on the box in the full-page ad is "100 grain," while the bullet weight indicated in the side piece is "110 grain," I inquired as to the actual bullet weight to be offered. I was advised, "I believe it's 110 grain."

That's great news, hope to see it on shelves soon. As for making a case, I'm going to have do that when I get home and have more time on my hands. Do you have email addresses for representatives?
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SHORT-N-SASSY
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« Reply #29 on: March 28, 2013, 10:39:33 PM »

Thank you for the welcome! I searched the boards and saw this:

Quote
And, in related news, Wolf has a full-page ad in the January, 2013 Western Shooting Journal featuring the Wolf Steel Case 6.5 Grendel ammo, as well as a side piece detailing the ballistics, "110-grain FMJ boattail bullet, with bimetal jacket, reported MV, 2,850 fps." I today called Wolfammo.com. I was advised that the 6.5 Grendel Steel Case ammo would be available sometime after March, 2013, and that the price would be compatible to their 5.56 Steel Case ammo. In that the bullet weight indicated on the box in the full-page ad is "100 grain," while the bullet weight indicated in the side piece is "110 grain," I inquired as to the actual bullet weight to be offered. I was advised, "I believe it's 110 grain."

That's great news, hope to see it on shelves soon. As for making a case, I'm going to have do that when I get home and have more time on my hands. Do you have email addresses for representatives?

brok3n,

Per my "Thoughts on SHOT Show 2013" March 15, 2013 Update, the release of the Wolf 6.5 Grendel Steel Case ammo has been pushed back to 3rd quarter 2013.

To contact your state Representatives, via E-mail, simply type their name in your Google Search block, then, click-on "Contact Me" and express your concerns via their easy-to-use "E-Mail Contact Form." Our voice makes a difference. And, they appreciate your taking the time to express your concerns.
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SHORT-N-SASSY
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« Reply #30 on: April 02, 2013, 07:35:22 AM »

Having noted that "6.5 Grendel" was not among the cartridges listed on the excellent ammo-availability Site, gunbot.net, I E-mailed them, "Was just advised of your helpful Site! Looking for 6.5 Grendel ammo. Can you assist."

Their reply, "It should be added soon."
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SHORT-N-SASSY
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« Reply #31 on: April 04, 2013, 08:21:20 AM »

A discussion surrounding the limited capabilities of the 5.56x45mm NATO round  beyond 300 meters (328 yards), over at the BullpupForum.com Thread, "Really?? No problems/issues to report about new SARs, at all??," I believe is a bit off topic. The Tavor SAR is an outstanding example of a modern Bullpup rifle. Period!

Fact is: the 5.56x45mm received lavish praise from Special Operations units and advisers working with troops in the South Vietnamese jungle, back in the early 1960's. That in large part prompted its adoption by NATO.  The rest is history. The discussion mentioned, "'Taking back the Half Kilometer," by an Army Officer who cites the lack of distance capabilities in our current primary weapon systems based on the 5.56.  Indeed, the November 30, 2009 Report, Increasing Small Arms Lethality in Afghanistan: Taking Back the Infantry Half-Kilometer, By Major Thomas P. Ehrhart, United States Army, is a worthwhile read. And, the Major makes the case that, though Operations in Afghanistan frequently require United States ground forces to engage and destroy the enemy beyond 300 meters, the current equipment (M4 chambered for the 5.56x45mm NATO cartridge), training and doctrine are optimized for engagements under 300 meters. A chapter in the Report, "Alternate Calibers," includes a comparison of the 6.8 SPC and the 6.5 Grendel.

The Report suggests that the 5.56x45mm NATO round (M855, 62-grain, 16" Barrel Muzzle Velocity (MV) - 2984 fps, Ballistic Coefficient (BC) - 0.283) is effective, up to 300 meters. Using the retained Kinetic Energy of that round, at 300 meters (538 ft. lbs.), as a parameter, I compare the following cartridges (all, based on velocites from 16" barrels): MK262, 77-grain, BC- 0.362, MV - 2650 fps.; .300 AAC Blackout, 125-grain, BC - 0.330, MV - 2215 fps; 6.8 SPC, 140-grain Berger VLD, BC - 0.487, MV - 2401 (NOTE: This load is approx. 5,000 PSI above the SAAMI 6.5 Grendel, and has a Cartridge Overall Length of 2.315" vs 2.260" for the Grendel); 6.5 Grendel, 144-grain Lapua FMJBT, BC - 0.636, MV - 2275 fps:

M855 - 538 ft.lbs. @ approx. 328 yards (300 meters);
MK262 - 538 ft.lbs. @ approx. 394 yards;
.300 AAC Blackout - 538 ft.lbs. @ approx. 388 yards;
6.8 SPC - 538 ft.lbs. @ approx. 760 yards;
6.5 Grendel - 538 ft.lbs. @ approx. 925 yards.
      
« Last Edit: April 04, 2013, 09:21:03 AM by SHORT-N-SASSY » Logged
genStrat
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« Reply #32 on: April 04, 2013, 08:36:03 AM »

An interesting read. Be sure to read the comments as they provide some additional "food for thought."

    Taking Back the Infantry Half-Kilometer
    http://defensetech.org/2010/03/01/taking-back-the-infantry-half-kilometer/

Links to the report mentioned in the previous post(and attached):

    Increasing Small Arms Lethality in Afghanistan: Taking Back the Infantry Half-Kilometer
    http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA512331


* GetTRDoc.pdf (1153.52 KB - downloaded 477 times.)
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SHORT-N-SASSY
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« Reply #33 on: April 25, 2013, 06:06:42 AM »

That the 6.5 Grendel looks good on paper is quite evidenced in these pages. But, how does it stack up, as a hunting cartridge?

Visiting the friendly 6.5 Grendel Forum, the "6.5 Grendel Hunting & Varminting" Thread caught my attention (animal species, distance taken): Ibex, 318 yards; Coyote, 340 yards; Antelope, 752 yards; Deer, 225 yards; Elk, 405 yards; Dall Sheep, 240 yards; Antelope, 343 yards; Deer, 465 yards; Big Horn Sheep, 368 yards; Deer, 437 yards; Deer, 600 yards. The 6.5 Grendel talks serious yardage!

Now, 6.5x55mm Swedish Mauser and 6.5x54 Mannlicher-Shoenauer are well-established big game cartridges: The former for harvesting most species of game, including reindeer and moose. The latter made famous by African hunter "Karamojo" Bell, using the 160-grain bullet to kill approximately 300 Elephant. The very high sectional density of that long bullet providing excellent penetration ability. Let's compare the three:

Cartridge . . . Case Length . C.O.L. . Capacity (water) . M.V. (139/140-grain)

6.5 Grendel . . 1.52" . . . . . 2.26" . . 35.1 grains . . . . . 2305 fps (16" barrel)
6.5x54 M-S . . 2.11" . . . . . 3.00" . . 44.5 grains . . . . . 2580 fps (24" barrel)
6.5x55 S-M . . 2.165" . . . . 3.15" . . 57.9 grains . . . . . 2550 fps (24" barrel)

Summing up the 6.5 Grendel: The Little Cartridge That Could!



 
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SHORT-N-SASSY
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« Reply #34 on: April 26, 2013, 04:56:42 AM »

I today sent the following E-mail to Beretta USA Customer Support:

"Beretta Customer Support:

When I type 'Beretta ARX100' in my Google Search block, I still get 'BERETTA ARX100' heading a blank page on the official BerettaUSA.com website. However, when I Google 'ARX100 test 1 - Beretta,' I now get 'ARX100 TEST 1' showing the ARX100 (Black) surrounded by eight features followed by a 7-line Description which includes, '. . . The cold-hammer-forged barrel can be removed and replaced with various lengths and calibers in a matter of seconds. Case ejection can be switched from right to left with a simple push of a button. . . .' However, no Specifications are listed.

1, What is the standard barrel length available?
2, Is the popular 6.5 Grendel among the available calibers?
3, Is the ARX100 available in Flat Dark Earth?
4, When are the first ARX100's expected to be shipped to Distributors?
5, What is the expected MSRP?"

NOTE: Also featured on the "ARX100 TEST 1" page is a Video, "USO wounded vets shoot the ARX160."
 
« Last Edit: April 26, 2013, 05:02:12 AM by SHORT-N-SASSY » Logged
SHORT-N-SASSY
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« Reply #35 on: April 26, 2013, 07:36:35 PM »

I today received the following E-mail-response from Beretta Customer Support:

"Hello [Beretta Customer]:

Thank you for contacting Beretta Customer Support.

Sir, this rifle is not available yet. Final details regarding sales, shipment, configuration, etc. are not available. Please follow our website for further information. We receive information on all new releases on the same day that it is released to the public.

Best regards,

Beretta Customer Support"
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SHORT-N-SASSY
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« Reply #36 on: April 29, 2013, 11:30:48 PM »

However, when I Google 'ARX100 test 1 - Beretta,' I now get 'ARX100 TEST 1' showing the ARX100 (Black) surrounded by eight features followed by a 7-line Description which includes, '. . . The cold-hammer-forged barrel can be removed and replaced with various lengths and calibers in a matter of seconds. Case ejection can be switched from right to left with a simple push of a button. . . .' However, no Specifications are listed.

NOTE: Also featured on the "ARX100 TEST 1" page is a Video, "USO wounded vets shoot the ARX160."

UPDATE: Page has been removed.

NOTE: The image of the ARX100 previously shown on the now-removed page appeared to indicate a switch, of some type, within the extreme forward opening of the trigger guard. No such switch is shown on the ARX160.
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SHORT-N-SASSY
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« Reply #37 on: May 01, 2013, 05:11:25 AM »

I today sent the following E-mail to Gabriele de Plano, Beretta U.S.A. Corp.:

"Dear Mr. de Plano:

A long-time admirer of the Beretta "passion," I join the multitude anxiously awaiting the release of the sporting/tactical carbine for the 21st Century: Beretta's highly-innovative ARX100.

Meanwhile, it's Beretta ARX100 "Teaser Time," on the Internet:

1, "BERETTA ARX100" heading, followed by a blank space, on the BERETTA official Site.;
2, "ARX100 test 1 - Beretta" page, on the BERETTA official Site, which offered an image of the new ARX100, along with a full list of its desirable features, but without specifications (Page recently removed).;
3, "BERETTA ARX100 - Teaser" video, "Ready for anything . . . Full-length video coming up soon. . . .";
4, "BERETTA ARX100 or IWI Tavor" poll.

I dare state that the long-awaited  Beretta ARX100 is on track to receive the extraordinary reception that the recently-introduced IWI Tavor SAR has, to date. I submit, however, that if Beretta is serious about introducing a welcome game-changer, their quick-change ARX100 has to offer, among the current tired, old-hat chamberings, a companion 21st-Century cartridge. And, the present consensus makes that the can-do 6.5 Grendel (shares the same Breech Bolt as the 7.62x39mm). And, as an extra advantage to the Consumer, low-cost steel case 6.5 Grendel ammo will be hitting dealers' shelves, third quarter 2013. All in all, I see the all-new Beretta ARX100, combined with the multi-purpose 6.5 Grendel, as the go-to combo for today's, tomorrow's wide-ranging sporting/tactical challenges.

Competition: it's what moves our shooting world, forward. Thank you, Beretta!

Sincerely,"
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Dust
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« Reply #38 on: May 01, 2013, 06:28:56 PM »

I had read a previous thread about the 6.8spcx43II love, and saw the 140 VLD link posted.  Something not commented on by Melante is this

WARNING: This ammunition is loaded to an AOL length of 2.290 inches.  Ensure that your magazine can accept this length BEFORE ordering.
SSA will not accept returns on this ammunition for failure to fire.

Special Requirements:

    Must use a PRI magazine for this round.  Magazine must accept a cartridge with Overall Length (OAL) of 2.300".  Magazines sold on this site.
    Spec II or SAAMI II chamber required.
    This load will not function properly in Barret rifles.

Reads more like the fine print in a drug ad than an ammunition ad.
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SHORT-N-SASSY
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« Reply #39 on: May 01, 2013, 08:56:16 PM »

UPDATE: I today received the following E-mail-Reply from Gabriele de Plano, VP, Military Marketing & Sales (formerly, VP, Product Development & Engineering), Beretta U.S.A. Corp.:

"Thank you for your interest in our ARX100... as the VP of our military division, I am more focused on the ARX160, but I'm sure the semi-auto version will be a great success. I am aware of the 6.5 Grendel, but my military customers have shown more interest in the .300 BlackOut, so I obviously have to defer to them... I'm sure that the market (with useful suggestions like yours) will drive us towards the development of all the optimal calibers --- fortunately, our multi-caliber platform is ready to accept most of them! I have forwarded your comments to my commercial  colleagues.

Best regards,

Gabriele de Plano
Vice President of Military Marketing & Sales
Beretta U.S.A. Corp."
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