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Author Topic: KM M17 update X2…final thoughts, not good.  (Read 2925 times)
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« on: May 12, 2016, 02:27:22 PM »

    Well some of you have been following my posts and now that Ken has my rifle headed back to me its time to wrap it up. I wrote a rather long review of this rifle earlier and stand by what I initially said about the rifle. It is well made, seems to be made with quality parts, and machining and metal work is outstanding along with the trigger. HOWEVER I have been experiencing issues that have made me decided that this weapon does NOT have a place in my collection.

     All weapons have their shortcomings and trade offs and you choose one or the other based off what things you decide are more important to you s an individual IE accuracy, durability, dependability, aesthetics ect. And in my case the rifle fails in almost all categories. EVERY brand puts a lemon out, it happens t the best and the worst brands and im able to accept that and whether I keep a rifle after its been fixed depends on the customer service which is something I would like to be as big a focus in this topic as well as the rifle.

     SO as a reminder my rifle started experiencing a new malfunction that caused it to double feed (sorta) and kick rounds BACK into the weapon (multiple empty cases floating around inside) AND bullets started to hit the target sideways on a target 100 yards away. I will roll in some reminder pics that you can see again after the post…some reason I cant post pis from the laptop but can from a phone so apologies that I cant roll them in as I talk about them.

     I sent the rifle to Ken for the second time and he responded saying that the rifle was full of dirt and had to much lube. NOW I shoot in a grassy yard with a dirt road behind me. the dirt he was talking about was the dirt kicked up by vehicles driving by on the dirt road causing dust to kick up and as the wind blows some settle in the gun (since oil does indeed cause dust to stick) That is the amount of "dirt" that was in the rifle. He also stated that it was over lubed (I run all my guns liberally lubed and grease in my handguns with aluminum frames...works very well so far) causing a hydraulic effect with the extractor/ejector…. that somehow caused the gun to eject the rounds back into itself. He also stated the tumbling bullets was caused by massive copper build up in the barrel and that he cleaned it and shot 150 rounds in it with no issues as described.

     AND THIS is where I have issues… addressing the lube/dirt issue.. as stated I run all my systems pretty wet. personal preference and has thus far never caused an issue. is it possible that with THIS gun if you run it wet and a SMALL amount of dirt finds its way in the weapon that it will cause it to start dumping rounds into itself WHEN it actually doesn't malfunction??? the answer could very well be yes and if it is then a gun THAT finicky has ZERO place in my collection of firearms. Mean while all my ar15s dont seem to mind the extra lube or no lube or dust in the same yard...

     Issue 2 the tumbling bullets…. Ken said the copper in the barrel caused this… I want to take this time to say BS! when the rounds started to tumble it had between 200-250 rounds fired. no one in there right mind can say with a straight face 250 rounds of residue would cause that. I have rand hundreds in other personal firearms and that never happened. I have personally run THOUSANDS of rounds in 249/240B machine guns (556,7.62) in single sittings and you know how many rounds tumbled due to copper build up??? NONE that I knew of (and yes many times theres paper quals in the army to save time and you see the holes in paper, never saw one go side ways) SO to me 250 rounds worth of copper in the barrel should do NOTHING but degrade accuracy in such a small way only long range competition shooters could tell a difference… not cause bullets to tumble.

     REGARDLESS Ken is sending it back without changing a single part and giving it a clean bill of health. I mentioned before I usually run everything suppressed and this creates a huge problem. I can NEVER put a suppressor on a barrel Ive personally seen spit bullets sideways, AND if nothing has been changed and it malfunctioned before then fixing nothing and expecting it to do something different would be something along the lines of insanity. So for me this gun has been a complete waste of money effort and time.

     SO what AM I SAYING about this gun? As before I believe it is nice, but I also believe I got a total LEMON which now brings us to customer service. The first time I sent the rifle back it was malfunctioning and I took it apart to see if I could figure it out and then saw that the rear portion of the bcg was faulty and was peening badly and eating into the hammer. I contacted ken and told him of this issue and he said to ship it back. I had to request a shipping label TWICE as I didnt feel I should pay the return shipping on 1800 dollar faulty gun. He finally sent one and I sent it back. Several weeks later he shipped it back with a new bcg. The hammer that the old bcg had torn up he DID NOT replace. He instead used a DREMEL and rounded out the hammer and put it back in.

     THAT was BS service, I couldnt believe I just sent him 1800(1900 with debit card) and he didnt replace all the damaged parts. I contacted him about it and he didnt reply as to why they didnt fix the first time but wanted me to send it back to him and if it was under warranty he would replace. Not wanting to wait several more weeks again I noticed the trigger group is outsourced so I called the trigger manufacturer and told them of my issue. They apologized for the issue (that they didnt cause) and the manager OVERNIGHTED me a new replacement hammer on his way home from work with a note saying he was sorry it happened and valued my business. ALL that and charged me NOTHING. THAT is good customer service. Ill roll in a pic of the hammer ken sent back to me.

     I also noticed in all of my emails back and forth with ken that he either wouldnt read my email entirely or would ignore parts. I would describe an issue and the type of ammo with or without the suppressor on. And his next email would be asking me what types of ammo or if the suppressor was mounted. Another email regarding the second issue I described the issues and requested a refund since it was the second time going back. He responded that  they would look at the gun and didnt say a word about addressing the refund. and again his fix to all this was some Hoppes #9 (nope not kidding). If you are reading this Ken please chime in if ANYTHING ive said is untrue or if you will give me a refund as I would LOVE the story to end like that…
   
     I recently ordered a ar15 upper and the barrel threads where not concentric to the bore for suppressor use. I contacted the company and they sent me a shipping label, and 3 weeks later a brand new upper was sent back with no issues. It was a minor issue resolved costing me nothing… So I feel that my expectation of customer service isnt far fetched regarding Ken and this rifle.

     SO ill add some pics of the afore mentioned malfunctions, and the hammer he sent back with it. NOTE i have NOT shot it since he cleaned the gun. I have decided that since he wont refund it then I will have to sell and take the several hundred dollar hit thats coming. I will NOT fire it again as I did my due diligence and sent the gun back on MY DIME (40 and change) and ken gave it a clean bill of health so I will in good conscious sell to someone else… HOWEVER in all reality since he replaced NOTHING then I can only expect it to do exactly what it did before…. to start tumbling bullets and jamming around the 250 round mark, I prefer not to see that as then I will not want to sell to another individual again (again refund could avoid all this….)

    SO YOUR GUN doesn't do this why??? cause I still think its a decent firearm.. I think MINE is a LEMON and want to say if you are thinking about buying one then you will PROBABLY get a good one. just know that if you DONT get a good one then you will end up like me… very frustrated, and flushing several hundred dollars down the drain.
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« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2016, 02:33:30 PM »

The hammer after he fixed it on the first trip


* image.jpg (763.32 KB, 1536x2048 - viewed 256 times.)
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« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2016, 02:35:19 PM »

Another angle of it


* image.jpg (700.15 KB, 1536x2048 - viewed 199 times.)
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« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2016, 02:38:04 PM »

Pics of the
Malfunctions
And tumbling bullets that basal been "fixed" with hoppes 9 smh


* image.jpg (506.35 KB, 1536x2048 - viewed 170 times.)
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« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2016, 02:40:18 PM »

Andddd empty cases inside the gun...


* image.jpg (579.72 KB, 2048x1536 - viewed 202 times.)

* image.jpg (579.72 KB, 2048x1536 - viewed 148 times.)
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DonL
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« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2016, 03:34:37 PM »

Just to put this problem in perspective. I witnessed a friends Glock 10mm put bullets sideways on a target that was just 25yds away...I wouldn't think that would be possible and never saw anything like it. The assembly manufacturer of the cartridges was Don Carpenter here in Arizona. Anyone that knows Don, knows that he is very meticulous with what he sells. Anyway, to make a long story short, the problem was with the jacket on these particular bullets(commercially manufactured) which caused significant fouling of the barrel.
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wfcwfc
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« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2016, 06:25:47 AM »

Seams like you are knocking a good rifle because it doesn't conform to the way you would like it to work.  I.e. Heavily lubed on a dusty road.   

If it were me, I would probably take the manufacturers advise and run the rifle dryer.  But that is just me.  And I'm just some guy.
 
But I completely concur about not wanting to run a suppressor when the bullets are exiting the muzzle sideways.
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SkirmishAblated
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« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2017, 10:19:36 PM »

Not to beat a dead horse, but was there any further resolution for this issue? Ken, it seems that this customer's problems were well-documented...does his account match your assessment?
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