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Author Topic: Tavor x95 rattle  (Read 52681 times)
Rick53
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« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2016, 10:47:12 AM »

I'm sure the op will tell us today that he switched it around. I can tell by looking at it that it's upside down. It's really obvious when I have my own to look at. It's rattling because of the positions he has it installed. Hopefully he'll see that : Even the Owners manual agrees with what I'm telling him.

Add me to the x95 rattle, video here:
https://youtu.be/PS1MU1w7aqM

I shot at a local action rifle yesterday and came home to a rattling gun. I have only field stripped the gun so unless something was installed incorrectly from the factory, or it somehow rotated around, got hot an expanded, the opening should be facing UP. Or I have a completely different issue lol.

Anyways, I take it this is not normal? I never had a Tavor.
dude , Take your hand guard off and slide the thing back in the groove : It just slipped out Look on page 69 part 4 . In both of your cases this X-95 is probably one of the easiest rifles to take apart that I own. You don't need the manual. Just look at the part and slip in the opening the way it fits best.  I know not everyone has the same mechanical ability : But this gun is a No brainier: Seriously
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Ngomez20
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« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2016, 10:49:00 AM »

is this what you are talking about?

Yes that is the part im talking about, not the bushing near the muzzle, which is what Rick53 is talking about.
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Dragoon
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« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2016, 10:49:08 AM »

I'm sure the op will tell us today that he switched it around. I can tell by looking at it that it's upside down. It's really obvious when I have my own to look at. It's rattling because of the positions he has it installed. Hopefully he'll see that : Even the Owners manual agrees with what I'm telling him.

Can you post a picture of yours, on p.69 the part number is 4 and shows it opening up.
I'll post a Picture in this reply - I looked at page 69 : Unless your manual is somehow different it goes down as I am telling you: As you can see just as the Owners Manual shows opening is down: Quite Frankly I'm not understanding how you're even getting it to fit any other way . I tried it upside down and you have to force it to fit: The Hand guard should just slip on easy  Mine isn't rattling : Although I have only shot about 600 Rounds so far:


Wrong bushing, the one in question is inside the handguard. See my video above.
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Rick53
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« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2016, 10:50:09 AM »

is this what you are talking about?
The frame does dictate orientation : I'm not sure why they are having rattling parts : Mine is fine and it's cold where I am. Snowed today
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Rick53
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« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2016, 10:51:43 AM »

I'm sure the op will tell us today that he switched it around. I can tell by looking at it that it's upside down. It's really obvious when I have my own to look at. It's rattling because of the positions he has it installed. Hopefully he'll see that : Even the Owners manual agrees with what I'm telling him.

Can you post a picture of yours, on p.69 the part number is 4 and shows it opening up.
I'll post a Picture in this reply - I looked at page 69 : Unless your manual is somehow different it goes down as I am telling you: As you can see just as the Owners Manual shows opening is down: Quite Frankly I'm not understanding how you're even getting it to fit any other way . I tried it upside down and you have to force it to fit: The Hand guard should just slip on easy  Mine isn't rattling : Although I have only shot about 600 Rounds so far:


Wrong bushing, the one in question is inside the handguard. See my video above.
I answered you already. Go back a page : Not sure why it slid lose . Can't you put it back in place?
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Dragoon
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« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2016, 10:55:38 AM »

I'm sure the op will tell us today that he switched it around. I can tell by looking at it that it's upside down. It's really obvious when I have my own to look at. It's rattling because of the positions he has it installed. Hopefully he'll see that : Even the Owners manual agrees with what I'm telling him.

Can you post a picture of yours, on p.69 the part number is 4 and shows it opening up.
I'll post a Picture in this reply - I looked at page 69 : Unless your manual is somehow different it goes down as I am telling you: As you can see just as the Owners Manual shows opening is down: Quite Frankly I'm not understanding how you're even getting it to fit any other way . I tried it upside down and you have to force it to fit: The Hand guard should just slip on easy  Mine isn't rattling : Although I have only shot about 600 Rounds so far:


Wrong bushing, the one in question is inside the handguard. See my video above.
I answered you already. Go back a page : Not sure why it slid lose . Can't you put it back in place?

I'm sure I could slide it back in place, but I'm looking for a permanent fix as I'd rather not do this every 200 rounds or so. It was 87* here yesterday, no shade, spent about 5 hours and shot about 260 rounds.
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e-money
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« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2016, 10:56:40 AM »

It does sound like there is confusion between parts 4 and 5 on page 69. Are you guys certain you're talking about the same part?
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Ngomez20
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« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2016, 10:58:45 AM »

I'm sure the op will tell us today that he switched it around. I can tell by looking at it that it's upside down. It's really obvious when I have my own to look at. It's rattling because of the positions he has it installed. Hopefully he'll see that : Even the Owners manual agrees with what I'm telling him.

Add me to the x95 rattle, video here:
https://youtu.be/PS1MU1w7aqM

I shot at a local action rifle yesterday and came home to a rattling gun. I have only field stripped the gun so unless something was installed incorrectly from the factory, or it somehow rotated around, got hot an expanded, the opening should be facing UP. Or I have a completely different issue lol.

Anyways, I take it this is not normal? I never had a Tavor.
dude , Take your hand guard off and slide the thing back in the groove : It just slipped out Look on page 69 part 4 . In both of your cases this X-95 is probably one of the easiest rifles to take apart that I own. You don't need the manual. Just look at the part and slip in the opening the way it fits best.  I know not everyone has the same mechanical ability : But this gun is a No brainier: Seriously

It's not that we don't know how to work on it, it's that i'm not even 500 rounds into shooting it and it already has a part the is sliding around, and my guess is it's from the gun heating it up and it deforming itself. Which i don't think its supposed to do that seeing how a gun is not supposed to sound like a baby rattle when it's moved around. So I was seeing if my rifle was the only one doing that and maybe get a new one that is not deformed.
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Dragoon
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« Reply #28 on: May 15, 2016, 11:00:30 AM »

It does sound like there is confusion between parts 4 and 5 on page 69. Are you guys certain you're talking about the same part?

Yeah there's definitely some confusion, but the bushing in question is #4 on page 69, which is the bushing inside the handguard. 
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fun_gary
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« Reply #29 on: May 15, 2016, 11:04:42 AM »

question a little bit off topic, but is there a trick to removing the handguard?  i removed the cross bolt at the top of the frame but the handguard won't budge.  i don't have access to my manual.  any other connections i am missing?

thanks!

DS
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Dragoon
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« Reply #30 on: May 15, 2016, 11:10:38 AM »

question a little bit off topic, but is there a trick to removing the handguard?  i removed the cross bolt at the top of the frame but the handguard won't budge.  i don't have access to my manual.  any other connections i am missing?

thanks!

DS

Manual says there's only the one bolt by the top rail, after removing that the handguard should slide off. I've never removed mine so I don't have first-hand experience, sorry.
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Ngomez20
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« Reply #31 on: May 15, 2016, 11:11:34 AM »

question a little bit off topic, but is there a trick to removing the handguard?  i removed the cross bolt at the top of the frame but the handguard won't budge.  i don't have access to my manual.  any other connections i am missing?

thanks!

DS

you have to take off the pistol grip by undoing the bolt under it. its holding the handgaurd in place also
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Rick53
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« Reply #32 on: May 15, 2016, 11:11:49 AM »

It does sound like there is confusion between parts 4 and 5 on page 69. Are you guys certain you're talking about the same part?

Yeah there's definitely some confusion, but the bushing in question is #4 on page 69, which is the bushing inside the hand guard. 
The confusion is my fault : I tool mine apart : From what I see you both must have just ever so different tolerances then mine has . Sorta like how some Chevy's are rattle tramps.  Maybe mine with rattle down the road : It's appears to just sets it there : Mine just doesn't rattle. At least not yet . I can't move mine when installed like what appears in the video. Must be some will and some won't rattle : Sorry for the confusion : You guys should sign up to photobucket so you can just paste in a pic. Those that come off cell phones into whatever you attach with are just too big to see clear:  
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fun_gary
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« Reply #33 on: May 15, 2016, 11:33:19 AM »

maybe a tiiiny dot of high temp RTV or epoxy on the outside of the bushing on each side?  that would probably give it a little grip and hold it in there but still allow for easy removal.  Maybe even just evenly peening the outside of the bushing sides a bit...

DS
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Tvfreakarms
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« Reply #34 on: May 16, 2016, 02:22:55 AM »

Having that touch the barrel won't it effect accuracy and mess with the barrel harmonics

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

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bpupman
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« Reply #35 on: May 16, 2016, 11:13:38 PM »

I am so glad to finally find this topic on the web--was my impetus for registering on this site so I could share.

I bought mine about a month ago and it did not rattle out of the box.  After 2 days doing nothing but trying the charging handle a handful of times, the rattle appeared.  For those of you not sure what the sound is like, it is in the neighbor hood of the sound the charging handle makes if the bolt is locked back and the handle were freed to slap back and forth.  Sound is only SLIGHTLY less loud.  Baby rattle analogy is good.  I shortly identified it as the sleeve moving almost a centimeter back and forth with gentle movement.

I can concur positively that we are definitely talking part#4, teflon sleeve.

I returned it to the gun store and they were great and immediately swapped for another, sending the first one back to IWI.  Second gun was quiet until the first time to the range.  As I went to pack up, noticed the same rattle.  Took that one back as well but waited to get it back from IWI since there was little point swapping for another that I thought could be potentially a bad batch of sleeves.

IWI didn't spend much time looking at it and sent right back to the gun store saying the sleeve was supposed to rattle like that.  I remain dumbfounded.  No rifle at this cost should rattle like that.  IWI rep did call me to tell me it was supposed to be like that, but he referred to the sleeve as a "heat sink".  I suggested that (with my amateur engineering knowledge) didn't make any sense because a heat sink by definition needs to be made from a material that conducts heat very well, and that teflon is often used as an insulator (exact opposite).  He said that is what the techs at the manufacturer called it when speaking with him, so maybe just legit english language issue?

Again, with my amateur engineering knowledge, I can deduce that a part that is so freely rattling: 1. Is not performing a function of securing two parts together or keeping parts in place; 2. Is probably not performing an insulating function very well?  Even in the earlier posted picture you can see the "sleeve" does not wrap around the barrel uniformly, but instead grabs the barrel at the top of the sleeve with a significant gap between the sleeve and the barrel at the bottom.

I actually asked the IWI rep if removing the sleeve would void the warranty.  He said it would not.  Could be lying through his teeth and there is obviously nothing in writing.  But from my own observation, I cannot figure out a meaningful function so I removed it.  Seems like the obvious solution for IWI would be to make this ~1 cm longer to remove the back and forth play and we would be GTG.  Maybe with enough internet chatter IWI will pay attention and fix.

If anyone can get an IWI engineer with real knowledge to speak to this and find out what is going on, and then post here, I would be eternally grateful.
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Dragoon
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« Reply #36 on: May 16, 2016, 11:24:57 PM »

I am so glad to finally find this topic on the web--was my impetus for registering on this site so I could share.

I bought mine about a month ago and it did not rattle out of the box.  After 2 days doing nothing but trying the charging handle a handful of times, the rattle appeared.  For those of you not sure what the sound is like, it is in the neighbor hood of the sound the charging handle makes if the bolt is locked back and the handle were freed to slap back and forth.  Sound is only SLIGHTLY less loud.  Baby rattle analogy is good.  I shortly identified it as the sleeve moving almost a centimeter back and forth with gentle movement.

I can concur positively that we are definitely talking part#4, teflon sleeve.

I returned it to the gun store and they were great and immediately swapped for another, sending the first one back to IWI.  Second gun was quiet until the first time to the range.  As I went to pack up, noticed the same rattle.  Took that one back as well but waited to get it back from IWI since there was little point swapping for another that I thought could be potentially a bad batch of sleeves.

IWI didn't spend much time looking at it and sent right back to the gun store saying the sleeve was supposed to rattle like that.  I remain dumbfounded.  No rifle at this cost should rattle like that.  IWI rep did call me to tell me it was supposed to be like that, but he referred to the sleeve as a "heat sink".  I suggested that (with my amateur engineering knowledge) didn't make any sense because a heat sink by definition needs to be made from a material that conducts heat very well, and that teflon is often used as an insulator (exact opposite).  He said that is what the techs at the manufacturer called it when speaking with him, so maybe just legit english language issue?

Again, with my amateur engineering knowledge, I can deduce that a part that is so freely rattling: 1. Is not performing a function of securing two parts together or keeping parts in place; 2. Is probably not performing an insulating function very well?  Even in the earlier posted picture you can see the "sleeve" does not wrap around the barrel uniformly, but instead grabs the barrel at the top of the sleeve with a significant gap between the sleeve and the barrel at the bottom.

I actually asked the IWI rep if removing the sleeve would void the warranty.  He said it would not.  Could be lying through his teeth and there is obviously nothing in writing.  But from my own observation, I cannot figure out a meaningful function so I removed it.  Seems like the obvious solution for IWI would be to make this ~1 cm longer to remove the back and forth play and we would be GTG.  Maybe with enough internet chatter IWI will pay attention and fix.

If anyone can get an IWI engineer with real knowledge to speak to this and find out what is going on, and then post here, I would be eternally grateful.


I'm probably just going to remove it as well. I don't see what it's supposed to do besides annoy the living hell out of you....or give away positions lol. I'll reach out to IWI this week and see if they give me the same runaround as others.
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Ngomez20
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« Reply #37 on: May 16, 2016, 11:57:26 PM »

I am so glad to finally find this topic on the web--was my impetus for registering on this site so I could share.

I bought mine about a month ago and it did not rattle out of the box.  After 2 days doing nothing but trying the charging handle a handful of times, the rattle appeared.  For those of you not sure what the sound is like, it is in the neighbor hood of the sound the charging handle makes if the bolt is locked back and the handle were freed to slap back and forth.  Sound is only SLIGHTLY less loud.  Baby rattle analogy is good.  I shortly identified it as the sleeve moving almost a centimeter back and forth with gentle movement.

I can concur positively that we are definitely talking part#4, teflon sleeve.

I returned it to the gun store and they were great and immediately swapped for another, sending the first one back to IWI.  Second gun was quiet until the first time to the range.  As I went to pack up, noticed the same rattle.  Took that one back as well but waited to get it back from IWI since there was little point swapping for another that I thought could be potentially a bad batch of sleeves.

IWI didn't spend much time looking at it and sent right back to the gun store saying the sleeve was supposed to rattle like that.  I remain dumbfounded.  No rifle at this cost should rattle like that.  IWI rep did call me to tell me it was supposed to be like that, but he referred to the sleeve as a "heat sink".  I suggested that (with my amateur engineering knowledge) didn't make any sense because a heat sink by definition needs to be made from a material that conducts heat very well, and that teflon is often used as an insulator (exact opposite).  He said that is what the techs at the manufacturer called it when speaking with him, so maybe just legit english language issue?

Again, with my amateur engineering knowledge, I can deduce that a part that is so freely rattling: 1. Is not performing a function of securing two parts together or keeping parts in place; 2. Is probably not performing an insulating function very well?  Even in the earlier posted picture you can see the "sleeve" does not wrap around the barrel uniformly, but instead grabs the barrel at the top of the sleeve with a significant gap between the sleeve and the barrel at the bottom.

I actually asked the IWI rep if removing the sleeve would void the warranty.  He said it would not.  Could be lying through his teeth and there is obviously nothing in writing.  But from my own observation, I cannot figure out a meaningful function so I removed it.  Seems like the obvious solution for IWI would be to make this ~1 cm longer to remove the back and forth play and we would be GTG.  Maybe with enough internet chatter IWI will pay attention and fix.

If anyone can get an IWI engineer with real knowledge to speak to this and find out what is going on, and then post here, I would be eternally grateful.


I'm probably just going to remove it as well. I don't see what it's supposed to do besides annoy the living hell out of you....or give away positions lol. I'll reach out to IWI this week and see if they give me the same runaround as others.

I was thinking of just removing as well, I too see no reason for it , it's obviously not hold anything in place if it's just sliding around.
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Rick53
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« Reply #38 on: May 17, 2016, 08:15:39 AM »

I am so glad to finally find this topic on the web--was my impetus for registering on this site so I could share.

I bought mine about a month ago and it did not rattle out of the box.  After 2 days doing nothing but trying the charging handle a handful of times, the rattle appeared.  For those of you not sure what the sound is like, it is in the neighbor hood of the sound the charging handle makes if the bolt is locked back and the handle were freed to slap back and forth.  Sound is only SLIGHTLY less loud.  Baby rattle analogy is good.  I shortly identified it as the sleeve moving almost a centimeter back and forth with gentle movement.

I can concur positively that we are definitely talking part#4, teflon sleeve.

I returned it to the gun store and they were great and immediately swapped for another, sending the first one back to IWI.  Second gun was quiet until the first time to the range.  As I went to pack up, noticed the same rattle.  Took that one back as well but waited to get it back from IWI since there was little point swapping for another that I thought could be potentially a bad batch of sleeves.

IWI didn't spend much time looking at it and sent right back to the gun store saying the sleeve was supposed to rattle like that.  I remain dumbfounded.  No rifle at this cost should rattle like that.  IWI rep did call me to tell me it was supposed to be like that, but he referred to the sleeve as a "heat sink".  I suggested that (with my amateur engineering knowledge) didn't make any sense because a heat sink by definition needs to be made from a material that conducts heat very well, and that teflon is often used as an insulator (exact opposite).  He said that is what the techs at the manufacturer called it when speaking with him, so maybe just legit english language issue?

Again, with my amateur engineering knowledge, I can deduce that a part that is so freely rattling: 1. Is not performing a function of securing two parts together or keeping parts in place; 2. Is probably not performing an insulating function very well?  Even in the earlier posted picture you can see the "sleeve" does not wrap around the barrel uniformly, but instead grabs the barrel at the top of the sleeve with a significant gap between the sleeve and the barrel at the bottom.

I actually asked the IWI rep if removing the sleeve would void the warranty.  He said it would not.  Could be lying through his teeth and there is obviously nothing in writing.  But from my own observation, I cannot figure out a meaningful function so I removed it.  Seems like the obvious solution for IWI would be to make this ~1 cm longer to remove the back and forth play and we would be GTG.  Maybe with enough internet chatter IWI will pay attention and fix.

If anyone can get an IWI engineer with real knowledge to speak to this and find out what is going on, and then post here, I would be eternally grateful.

It's Teflon so I would assume it's there to help with heat transfer : I took mine out and ran 60 rounds thru in less then 2 minutes and the gun was considerably warmer : Although not to hot. Mine is snug and seems to have no tendency towards rattling: If IWI is telling you it's normal to rattle then why worry about it? After-all you can't hear it rattle when you're shooting:) I'll continue to shoot mine with the sleeve in : If you take yours out let us know the results after a day at the range. Mines not rattling so I see no reason to remove it. 
« Last Edit: May 17, 2016, 08:21:01 AM by Rick53 » Logged
bpupman
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« Reply #39 on: May 17, 2016, 12:08:11 PM »

It's Teflon so I would assume it's there to help with heat transfer : I took mine out and ran 60 rounds thru in less then 2 minutes and the gun was considerably warmer : Although not to hot. Mine is snug and seems to have no tendency towards rattling: If IWI is telling you it's normal to rattle then why worry about it? After-all you can't hear it rattle when you're shooting:) I'll continue to shoot mine with the sleeve in : If you take yours out let us know the results after a day at the range. Mines not rattling so I see no reason to remove it. 
[/quote]

Right, as I said, an insulator, perhaps intended to keep heat from moving down to the bottom grip.  Though with so much play back and forth, there is going to be gap where heat would escape behind it (unlike if it stays put).  I will definitely report if I notice any difference in grip heat.

I can't believe anybody would find it acceptable to spend nearly $1800 on a rifle and not get a quality build.  I have never owned a rifle that rattled like a children's toy.  I guess the upshot is no, I can't ignore it.  It's really bad, and having it do that just moving it around is not OK.  At the risk of invoking logic here--shouldn't YOU be worried?  If you take IWI 100% at their word, that the rattle is "normal", then aren't you concerned that yours is abnormal?  If the sleeve, as they say, is "supposed to move freely", then shouldn't you be on the phone with them asking why yours doesn't?  If you are not, I suspect it is because you must know, as I do, that their explanation is total horse@$%.

There is no reason this sleeve could not be constructed in such a way as to not rattle, and provide whatever thermodynamic function it is supposed to.

If you are OK with rattle, I have an idea--let's trade.
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