BULLPUP FORUM

Bullpup Rifles (Auto & Semi-Auto Centerfire) => IWI Tavor & X-95 => Topic started by: Rick53 on November 13, 2014, 07:39:22 PM



Title: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: Rick53 on November 13, 2014, 07:39:22 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxHF1PyMckE&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxHF1PyMckE&feature=youtu.be)



Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: DILLIGAF on November 13, 2014, 08:23:08 PM
My S.S should be in Canada in 6 weeks  ;D cant wait....



Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: repo on November 13, 2014, 08:29:46 PM
interesting thing is the aluminum triggers are an ounce heavier than the "plastic" ss tav-d


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: TSFR on November 13, 2014, 08:42:19 PM
Thanks for post the video!  That's the kind of information I've been looking for  ;D


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: larryz on November 13, 2014, 10:37:50 PM
Thanks for post the video!  That's the kind of information I've been looking for  ;D

X2


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: semper paratus on November 14, 2014, 10:19:15 AM
EXCELLENT - a must view - thanks for the post rick


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: lpc on November 14, 2014, 10:52:40 AM
Looks like I didn't luck out on this one.  My Shooting Sight trigger came in at a 6LB weight.  Anyone else have one this heavy?  I'm not sure if this is due to the trigger or my gun.


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: semper paratus on November 14, 2014, 10:59:15 AM
have not fired mine yet but have read some posts that it does lighten up after a few hunted rounds


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: Rick53 on November 14, 2014, 12:05:19 PM
Judging by the Pm's I'm getting several of you think that's me in the video. It's not. The person is Jeremy: I helped him arrange to get 2 of the triggers for his video .  Because of that he emailed me the video just before he posted it. All of you thanking me for the good review need to say thanks Jeremy.  Maybe he'll comment at some point.


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: Hebrew Hammer on November 14, 2014, 04:20:01 PM
Excellent review.  I still do not see way the big deal with changing out the trigger.  It sure works fine for the Israelis. It is a battle rifle.  That being said I would go with the Geissele.   


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: semper paratus on November 14, 2014, 04:32:47 PM
I wrote down all the stats he listed and for the few 1/100th differences in trigger break, reset and take-up - I'll stick with Art's for my other Tavors - as soon as he get more in stock


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: Apache on November 14, 2014, 08:37:22 PM
Good review, it affirms my belief that it comes down to personal preference -

Two stage non adjustable ...
Two stage adjustable ...
Single stage non adjustable, that appears to still have problems running suppressed ...


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: Chapman.34 on December 01, 2014, 10:57:32 AM
TAV-D aluminum in stock! For the second...


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: MP2Day on December 01, 2014, 12:31:25 PM
TAV-D aluminum in stock! For the second...

Ordered.  :)


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: krav51 on December 29, 2014, 07:01:49 AM
Has any one that employs the Tavor as a self defense weapon considered the legal implications of using a non stock trigger that is 1/3 the pull weight of stock? I personally donít think it should matter as long as lethal force is justified but Massad Ayoob is a big advocate of not lowering the trigger weight on self defense guns.He has documented several cases where it was used against someone in court.I believe it is usually an issue in civil court but can also hamper your case in a criminal trial.



Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: Revcomm on December 29, 2014, 08:51:19 AM
Has any one that employs the Tavor as a self defense weapon considered the legal implications of using a non stock trigger that is 1/3 the pull weight of stock? I personally donít think it should matter as long as lethal force is justified but Massad Ayoob is a big advocate of not lowering the trigger weight on self defense guns.He has documented several cases where it was used against someone in court.I believe it is usually an issue in civil court but can also hamper your case in a criminal trial.

Were those cases involving rifles or carry pistols?  This has been on my mind as well.


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: krav51 on December 29, 2014, 10:42:11 AM

Were those cases involving rifles or carry pistols?  This has been on my mind as well.

[/quote]


I believe the cases he cited were all with handguns.


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: DILLIGAF on January 03, 2015, 01:12:57 PM
10 pull average on the Tav-D

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10361328_10152965223743552_3224775568555655852_n.jpg?oh=a94f404770888d6170dff2d46a81f1d6&oe=54F965B5&__gda__=1430728867_638d12f5960719a49ffacdc6bafacb0f)


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: CAGuns on January 27, 2015, 08:24:59 PM
https://www.youtube.com/v/JyjIFbYH6IM
We also experienced double taps with the Timney Tavor trigger pack! Going back to the factory!!


Title: Re:
Post by: tattooo on January 28, 2015, 03:18:13 PM
I run timneys on all my rifles & would most likely be loyal & go with them again from past good experiences


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: DeltaBravo on February 03, 2015, 12:44:08 PM
Anyone know the price of the new Trigger from Geisselle?

Saw it on ShotShow 2015 and I'm definitely interested in getting the Trigger pack + the Trigger.  Heard its match grade AR quality.


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: issues on February 04, 2015, 12:26:25 PM
Anyone know the price of the new Trigger from Geisselle?

Saw it on ShotShow 2015 and I'm definitely interested in getting the Trigger pack + the Trigger.  Heard its match grade AR quality.

The trigger bow is $99 USD.


Title: Re:
Post by: tattooo on February 06, 2015, 09:24:25 PM
$350 msrp


Title: Re:
Post by: tattooo on February 10, 2015, 01:56:17 AM
I went with a timney over the geissele one because i run timneys in all my rifles & 2 even though i was going to try the geissele for the first time, its a 2 stage and im not a fan of 2 stage triggers.....


Title: Re:
Post by: Paul053 on February 14, 2015, 08:14:23 PM
Any word of the geisselle trigger bow is compatible with tav-d trigger pack?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk



Title: Re:
Post by: xpdchief on February 14, 2015, 08:39:31 PM
Any word of the geisselle trigger bow is compatible with tav-d trigger pack?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk



Yes, it's compatible will all of the trigger packs.


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: lpc on February 15, 2015, 01:31:56 PM
Article that talks about the trigger bow with Geissele, Timney and Shooting Sight trigger packs.
http://www.outdoorhub.com/reviews/2015/02/09/geissele-super-sabra-tavor-trigger-pack-lightning-bow-trigger/


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: slc19460 on February 22, 2015, 10:02:20 PM
Great video - I actually have both the SS alloy and Geissele - I think I would avoid the Timney as doubling and Tripling is a dangerous fault to my way of thinking - I have a pre-order in for the new Geissle trigger bow which should make my decision easier for a full time trigger if it is as good as advertised. 
My Geissele is one of the first out - does anyone know what was changed in the generation 2 they are selling now or is it just a correction/refinement of the initial problems they had with the original trigger not having enough hammer clearance?  This was not a problem on my trigger btw   


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: XPDXCop on March 18, 2015, 12:18:14 PM
i too have a lot of Timney triggers.  they did have a problem but quickly recalled it for exchange.  had the new one in less than a week.  i will always stick with them for my triggers as they are guaranteed for life and ive always liked the way they feel.


Title: Re:
Post by: tattooo on March 18, 2015, 12:36:00 PM
You & me both XPD .... Some people like coke & some pepsi.... im a timney guy....


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: BC13 on March 20, 2015, 05:31:30 PM
Why would someone trust their life on anything having problems from day one to a very recent blow up seen here just recently? Wonder if other companies have single stage on test bench.


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: tattooo on March 20, 2015, 09:34:59 PM
Cmon really..... thats like saying you'll never trust your life in a car that had a recall or recalls.....???


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: Guntrician on March 31, 2015, 12:55:01 AM
Why would someone trust their life on anything having problems from day one to a very recent blow up seen here just recently? Wonder if other companies have single stage on test bench.


Respectfully, I have the same concerns about changing the stock trigger to something considerably lower in pull weight to the factory trigger. If this rifle is ever intended to be used in an HD scenario, I would think this opens the door to all kinds of legal ramifications. I don't personally have any problems with the trigger as it comes. I'm not doing long range prairie dog hunting with this rifle. Now if someone is setting it up for a DMR type roll that is different.

That said I give a huge thank you to Jeremy and Rick for providing this info for those that want to change their trigger.


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: xpdchief on March 31, 2015, 08:09:12 AM
Why would someone trust their life on anything having problems from day one to a very recent blow up seen here just recently? Wonder if other companies have single stage on test bench.


Respectfully, I have the same concerns about changing the stock trigger to something considerably lower in pull weight to the factory trigger. If this rifle is ever intended to be used in an HD scenario, I would think this opens the door to all kinds of legal ramifications. I don't personally have any problems with the trigger as it comes. I'm not doing long range prairie dog hunting with this rifle. Now if someone is setting it up for a DMR type roll that is different.

That said I give a huge thank you to Jeremy and Rick for providing this info for those that want to change their trigger.

I'm having a hard time thinking of a scenerio (other than one created by the home owner) where the use of one of the aftermarket triggers in a Tavor used for home defense becomes a legal issue. 
If your defense to the shooting was a justifiable defense of your life or the life of others in the home (defense of property in some states), than the trigger doesn't matter.  You pulled the trigger and you meant to pull it.
If your defense is that the shooting was accidental, you did not mean to shoot the intruder but the trigger malfunctioned in some way, then you may have a problem.  You had your finger on the trigger, didn't mean to pull it, but you did anyway (lighter pull or not).  If this is your defense than it probably won't matter which trigger was in the Tavor.


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: Aussie E on March 31, 2015, 09:11:10 AM
(http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/144823/4153855-5588163234-2202c.png)

AE


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: tattooo on March 31, 2015, 09:36:06 AM
XPD is 10000% correct


Title: Re:
Post by: tattooo on March 31, 2015, 11:58:28 AM
These trigger packs are made in a factory .....IMO I would think its safer legally than a modified origional equipment trigger ie trigger job ..... either way my pump shotgun & a handgun are my HD set up & ready firearms ....


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: Kissmethod17 on March 31, 2015, 05:17:53 PM
I just put the order in for a TAV-D aluminum housing. My Tavor is excited, my wallet is feeling more lonely...


Title: Re:
Post by: tattooo on March 31, 2015, 06:21:54 PM
Good for you brother


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: bradman on June 06, 2015, 02:27:01 PM
I like Timney also, but in this case Geissele is the better system and now with the new trigger, I just can't wait to get one.  The pack has worked perfectly for me.  I actually ordered the pack before I paid for the rifle.  Just my .02.


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: GWL on June 12, 2015, 02:31:44 PM
Why would someone trust their life on anything having problems from day one to a very recent blow up seen here just recently? Wonder if other companies have single stage on test bench.


Respectfully, I have the same concerns about changing the stock trigger to something considerably lower in pull weight to the factory trigger. If this rifle is ever intended to be used in an HD scenario, I would think this opens the door to all kinds of legal ramifications. I don't personally have any problems with the trigger as it comes. I'm not doing long range prairie dog hunting with this rifle. Now if someone is setting it up for a DMR type roll that is different.

That said I give a huge thank you to Jeremy and Rick for providing this info for those that want to change their trigger.

I'm having a hard time thinking of a scenerio (other than one created by the home owner) where the use of one of the aftermarket triggers in a Tavor used for home defense becomes a legal issue. 
If your defense to the shooting was a justifiable defense of your life or the life of others in the home (defense of property in some states), than the trigger doesn't matter.  You pulled the trigger and you meant to pull it.
If your defense is that the shooting was accidental, you did not mean to shoot the intruder but the trigger malfunctioned in some way, then you may have a problem.  You had your finger on the trigger, didn't mean to pull it, but you did anyway (lighter pull or not).  If this is your defense than it probably won't matter which trigger was in the Tavor.
I agree completely.


Title: Re:
Post by: Paul053 on June 12, 2015, 05:09:22 PM
Anyone try just the geissele trigger bow with the stock trigger pack? Don't have the mony right now for any of the after market trigger packs.


Title: Re:
Post by: stormy on June 12, 2015, 08:12:31 PM
Anyone try just the geissele trigger bow with the stock trigger pack? Don't have the mony right now for any of the after market trigger packs.

It will take the slack out but not the break.


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: SRQgunner on June 22, 2015, 06:26:46 PM
I've just installed the Geissele trigger pack and the lightning bow trigger. I'm getting consistent pull weight of 3.7 - 4lbs. 1st stage comes in at about 2.4. Installations of the lightning bow wasn't difficult at all. It is so sweet!  :) :) :) :) :) :)


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: FredsFlavor on June 26, 2015, 11:52:03 PM
I just purchased an 18" Tavor and had the dealer install the Geissele pack and the Bow trigger. He adjusted the trigger bow for no slack at all and it is better than any of my best AR's The break is around 4LB and breaks exactly the same each time. I can radid fire almost as fast as ful auto with this set up. I was bale to get a .96MOA at 100 yards from a bench.


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: CXander1 on June 30, 2015, 07:31:54 PM
I have the Lightning Bow installed with an OEM trigger pack.  For those who are tight on funds or don't want to stray from OEM, I can honestly say that my Tavor is a different animal now.  I tightened the slack adjustment screw until there was almost zero slack, then turned it back one full turn to be safe.  I get a couple millimeters of tight give(not mushy like stock), then a nice break and reset. I did use 400 grit, then polished my sear and other contacts in the OEM trigger pack.  I do not have a trigger pull scale to measure the pull, but I can say the difference with the Geissele LB is night and day.  


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: FredsFlavor on July 03, 2015, 07:46:55 PM
Oh Well!!!  I just bought a second Tavor today. I had an 18" in FDE and today I purchased an ODG 16". Planning on getting the 9mm conversion soon and hope they do come up with the 300 BO in the near future. The Geissele trigger I got today was only 259.99.  They were out of the BOW trigger for now.


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: CXander1 on July 03, 2015, 08:10:11 PM
$259??  Gen 2?  Where if you don't mind me asking?


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: Old Leg on July 05, 2015, 07:33:27 PM
$259??  Gen 2?  Where if you don't mind me asking?

Nice! The best I could do was $310 on EBAY.


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: willis68 on July 12, 2015, 08:28:09 AM
I have had the Super Sabre Pack for a few months now, it made a world of difference. Yesterday I installed the Lightning Bow trigger, I adjusted the slack screw to remove 100 percent of the slack, then backed it off a full turn, my Tavor is amazing now and has a better trigger than any AR15 I have ever shot,

This combination will run you close to $450.00 but I assure you it at least for me is worth every cent 8)


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: Spectralex on July 12, 2015, 02:53:20 PM
For those who installed the Geissele Lighning Bow, where does the original trigger spring connected on the Bow? I'm dumbfounded on how it is connected. If not, how do you get that springy feel on the trigger?
In the middle of installing it and can't move forth.


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: CXander1 on July 12, 2015, 03:39:32 PM
The directions did not mention the spring so I left it out.  The LB looked nothing like the stock trigger so I assumed it was designed that way.  Anyway, mine functions flawlessly without.


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: willis68 on July 12, 2015, 06:33:44 PM
there is no need for the original spring, it is not used with the Lightning Bow


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: BoulderTroll on July 18, 2015, 02:38:23 PM
Why would someone trust their life on anything having problems from day one to a very recent blow up seen here just recently? Wonder if other companies have single stage on test bench.


Respectfully, I have the same concerns about changing the stock trigger to something considerably lower in pull weight to the factory trigger. If this rifle is ever intended to be used in an HD scenario, I would think this opens the door to all kinds of legal ramifications. I don't personally have any problems with the trigger as it comes. I'm not doing long range prairie dog hunting with this rifle. Now if someone is setting it up for a DMR type roll that is different.

That said I give a huge thank you to Jeremy and Rick for providing this info for those that want to change their trigger.

In a criminal case it won't matter a bit, you were either justified (in which case you could have used a sword or a Crown Victoria instead of your Tavor), or you weren't.  In a civil case the issue could of course be brought up, but if your attorney can't convince a jury that a 12 lb trigger pull is excessive for a rifle, you've got WAY bigger problems.   ;D  The real  issue with gun modifications in civil use of force cases comes from the morons who put "Punisher" skull logos on their pistol grips, or skulls "camo" drip on their AR15's.  It shows a predisposition to violence and vigilantism, and could have a serious effect on a civil case.  A factory done aftermarket trigger job...not so much.  Just my .02c as someone who has spent time in both civil and criminal cases.

I can't count the number of times since finding this forum that I've read the "if it works for the Israeli's" argument to support the Tavor's heavy trigger pull weight.  I sure hope that everyone who has used that argument also carries their pistols in Condition 2, because that also "works for the Israelis".  I could order all my Glocks with 12 lb trigger pulls, because that "works for NYPD".  My department for many years issued 8lb trigger pulls on our Glocks.  Guess what...while it might have worked, there isn't one of us that would switch back from our current 5.5lb pulls. 


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: ShootingSight on July 21, 2015, 09:52:57 AM
If you read back some of the historic threads on the trigger pull, the IWI pull was not developed because anyone wanted it heavy.  The current pull was developed because there was a concern about the reliability of the reset if you had a trigger that was excessively dirty - ie you get a bunch of sand in it, or carbon buildup, and you are on an extended deployment, where cleaning is difficult.

For civilian use, where you can take the time to break down and clean your rifle, and you mostly do not shoot in sand, you can eliminate the extra spring with little consequence.

As to statements that a single stage heavy trigger is more appropriate for a combat rifle, I would remind that the greatest combat rifle ever built, the M1 Garand (and the M14), had a fantastic 2-stage trigger that broke at about 6lb.  I'm not saying a match tuned 4.5lb trigger isn't better, but the reality is that an issue M1 trigger is both robust enough for combat, and can hold its own in target shooting.


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: Tvfreakarms on August 02, 2015, 04:36:33 PM
I wished there were a cheaper option. $350 is a bit much.


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: Prominus on August 08, 2015, 10:32:48 AM
Why would someone trust their life on anything having problems from day one to a very recent blow up seen here just recently? Wonder if other companies have single stage on test bench.


Respectfully, I have the same concerns about changing the stock trigger to something considerably lower in pull weight to the factory trigger. If this rifle is ever intended to be used in an HD scenario, I would think this opens the door to all kinds of legal ramifications. I don't personally have any problems with the trigger as it comes. I'm not doing long range prairie dog hunting with this rifle. Now if someone is setting it up for a DMR type roll that is different.

That said I give a huge thank you to Jeremy and Rick for providing this info for those that want to change their trigger.

After you kill the intruder swap the stock trigger back in done deal.


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: Aussie E on August 08, 2015, 01:36:25 PM
Why would someone trust their life on anything having problems from day one to a very recent blow up seen here just recently? Wonder if other companies have single stage on test bench.


Respectfully, I have the same concerns about changing the stock trigger to something considerably lower in pull weight to the factory trigger. If this rifle is ever intended to be used in an HD scenario, I would think this opens the door to all kinds of legal ramifications. I don't personally have any problems with the trigger as it comes. I'm not doing long range prairie dog hunting with this rifle. Now if someone is setting it up for a DMR type roll that is different.

That said I give a huge thank you to Jeremy and Rick for providing this info for those that want to change their trigger.

After you kill the intruder swap the stock trigger back in done deal.

LOL, forever on the interwebby for prosecutors to see and use in the court.

If and I say if, I ever have to shoot someone in self defense it is going to be due to me being in fear for my life or grievous bodily harm and it will be on purpose, not an accidental discharge so trigger pull weight will be irrelevant.

AE


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: Prominus on August 08, 2015, 09:15:52 PM
Why would someone trust their life on anything having problems from day one to a very recent blow up seen here just recently? Wonder if other companies have single stage on test bench.


Respectfully, I have the same concerns about changing the stock trigger to something considerably lower in pull weight to the factory trigger. If this rifle is ever intended to be used in an HD scenario, I would think this opens the door to all kinds of legal ramifications. I don't personally have any problems with the trigger as it comes. I'm not doing long range prairie dog hunting with this rifle. Now if someone is setting it up for a DMR type roll that is different.

That said I give a huge thank you to Jeremy and Rick for providing this info for those that want to change their trigger.

After you kill the intruder swap the stock trigger back in done deal.

LOL, forever on the interwebby for prosecutors to see and use in the court.

If and I say if, I ever have to shoot someone in self defense it is going to be due to me being in fear for my life or grievous bodily harm and it will be on purpose, not an accidental discharge so trigger pull weight will be irrelevant.

AE

Well that is a given. Honestly though I think the tavor or any rifle caliber weapon (unsuppressed) is a bad choice for home defense. Mainly due to the noise. If s*** is going down in your home the last thing on your mind is hearing protection and even then you don't want anything to obstruct your hearing in this situation(shooting 5.56 indoors unless you are already deaf will probably incapacitate you for a few seconds and maybe even make you vomit. I have a beretta cx4 chambered in 9mm set up for indoor use. It's much lighter than most rifles too.


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: BullpupT on August 10, 2015, 01:25:57 PM
Why would someone trust their life on anything having problems from day one to a very recent blow up seen here just recently? Wonder if other companies have single stage on test bench.


Respectfully, I have the same concerns about changing the stock trigger to something considerably lower in pull weight to the factory trigger. If this rifle is ever intended to be used in an HD scenario, I would think this opens the door to all kinds of legal ramifications. I don't personally have any problems with the trigger as it comes. I'm not doing long range prairie dog hunting with this rifle. Now if someone is setting it up for a DMR type roll that is different.

That said I give a huge thank you to Jeremy and Rick for providing this info for those that want to change their trigger.

After you kill the intruder swap the stock trigger back in done deal.

LOL, forever on the interwebby for prosecutors to see and use in the court.

If and I say if, I ever have to shoot someone in self defense it is going to be due to me being in fear for my life or grievous bodily harm and it will be on purpose, not an accidental discharge so trigger pull weight will be irrelevant.

AE

Well that is a given. Honestly though I think the tavor or any rifle caliber weapon (unsuppressed) is a bad choice for home defense. Mainly due to the noise. If s*** is going down in your home the last thing on your mind is hearing protection and even then you don't want anything to obstruct your hearing in this situation(shooting 5.56 indoors unless you are already deaf will probably incapacitate you for a few seconds and maybe even make you vomit. I have a beretta cx4 chambered in 9mm set up for indoor use. It's much lighter than most rifles too.

I totally agree with you. A carbine in a rifle caliber is just to much overkill for home defense. Over penetration is key concern, I would hate to see green tips in a home defense gun. Glaser safety slugs help... A good can on 9mm or 45acp does just fine as a home defense rig. 12ga with bird shot isn't bad either, especially at close distance


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: Aussie E on August 10, 2015, 02:45:01 PM
It has been shown numerous times that M193 (my standard) will fragment and lose most of it's energy in the first wall it comes in contact with and that even 9mm has the potential to penetrate multiply walls. Now 55.6mm bonded core or tungsten penetrator rounds are a different story. A professional shooter friend of mine did some tests with M193 and bonded core 5.56mm on his USPSA range that is made plywood. The M193 went through the first board and then came apart and didn't penetrate the board on the other side of the hallway, the bonded core put a 5.56mm hole in the first board and then put a hole the size of a 9mm round through another four plywood boards before sailing off into the sunset. Choose the right ammo in a 5.56 and you'll be fine indoors.

AE


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: eblevin on August 16, 2015, 11:21:42 AM
My Timney Gen 2 has worked amazingly and I have no complaints. I have never shot the Geissele but my guess is it is superb as well. However I was able to get the Timney for $245 on sale and that beat the hell out of any deal I could find on the Geissele so I went for it.


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: Montgb on September 14, 2015, 08:30:32 PM
Just ordered a TAV-D from Shooting Sight.  I was debating between it and the Giessele unit.  Price and solid reviews helped make my decision.

Coincidentally, the day after I made my purchase I met a fellow Tavor owner at a local range with the Giessele trigger pack.  He let me fire a few rounds, and I was very impressed in the difference over OEM.  I expect the same results with the TAV-D. 


Title: Re: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: Tvfreakarms on September 15, 2015, 06:04:06 AM
Just ordered a TAV-D from Shooting Sight.  I was debating between it and the Giessele unit.  Price and solid reviews helped make my decision.

Coincidentally, the day after I made my purchase I met a fellow Tavor owner at a local range with the Giessele trigger pack.  He let me fire a few rounds, and I was very impressed in the difference over OEM.  I expect the same results with the TAV-D. 
Well I figure both the tav d and giessele is similar. But also both are still expensive as hell

2 by 2...hands of blue



Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: DILLIGAF on September 17, 2015, 11:00:32 PM
considering the price of AR triggers. They are not that bad. 


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: Zemliak on September 20, 2015, 05:58:16 AM
I installed Geissele triger pack today and I feel immediate difference, click is way more pridictible and snappier/lighter. Hovever I also noticed that part is is about twice heavier than original. I know it is alluminum etc but I wish all these modes would also made rifle lighter but not heavier. Minor since I already made it heavy with all these plates, raiser, optics, bipod etc :)


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: AUG556Shooter on September 28, 2015, 03:41:37 PM
I tried to order the TAV-D trigger pack. My order was rejected and my money was refunded. Several attempts to contact them were ignored.

I'll not do business with these people and I'll gladly warn everyone off of buying their products.

Amateur hour.

If your TAVOR is only a range toy, sure, use them, if not? Stick with genuine professionals.


Title: Re:
Post by: Tvfreakarms on September 28, 2015, 03:51:25 PM
Well TAV-D sells plastic trigger pacts. It should be cheaper than $325

2 by 2...hands of blue



Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: FromageQuiPue on September 29, 2015, 12:04:56 AM
i have a Tavor Rifle 2-Stage Trigger - Delrin Housing from Shooting sight for a couple of weeks and i'm very happy with it.
Just day and night compared to the OEM trigger pack


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: BPBeliever on September 29, 2015, 12:05:55 PM
I tried to order the TAV-D trigger pack. My order was rejected and my money was refunded. Several attempts to contact them were ignored.

I'll not do business with these people and I'll gladly warn everyone off of buying their products.

Amateur hour.

If your TAVOR is only a range toy, sure, use them, if not? Stick with genuine professionals.

You had one bad experience with ShootingSight (that ended up costing you nothing but a little time) but you're really stirring a stink over something when you don't even know the cause. Did you know that Art is operating what's essentially a one-man business? He contracts out parts manufacture somewhat, then does all the assembly and tests each trigger in his own Tavor. He also of course handles all the business stuff, like answering phone calls and emails.

If his website rejected your order and your money, have you considered that this might be a good thing? Most s***ty businesses I've heard of or dealt with will take your money first and tell you about problems (or just ignore you) later. Art might've had an emergency and instructed his payment system to not accept orders until he can actually fill them - a good attribute for a small manufacturer.

Art can speak for himself when he comes around, but wouldn't you hate to find out after making such a stink that the man was in the hospital for the last week or something?

Well TAV-D sells plastic trigger pacts. It should be cheaper than $325

Art offers both machined aluminum and also machined delrin housings. Almost surprising he saves enough to drop the price at all; it still requires similar machining. Delrin also isn't some crap plastic; it has excellent properties and is used for bushings in racing or high performance automobiles, bearings, small gear wheels, fasteners, etc.


Title: Re:
Post by: tattooo on September 29, 2015, 03:52:53 PM
Absolutely LOVE my Timney


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: ShootingSight on September 29, 2015, 09:53:23 PM
I've been avoiding this issue, but will fire out my post.

The 'offended' customer Aug556shooter is actually Paul McCain, better known as Amsdorf, who was banned from this forum, and about a half dozen other gun forums, including FNForum and Arfcom, as well as a bunch of church forums, because he is a troll who enjoys posting inflammatory responses, and then launching personal attacks against responders.

He rejoined, not because he asked for re-admission, but because he faked his identity.

So yes, I rejected his order because I recognized who he was, and want nothing to do with him.  His postings suggesting he was hurt because I offered no explanation were because as soon as I rejected his order he EXACTLY knew the reason, but didn't share that because it didn't fit his narrative.

He has since been re-banned from this forum.

So yes, I stand behind my product, and will go to great lengths to make a customer happy.  But I will not abide trolls.



Title: Re: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: tattooo on September 29, 2015, 11:10:32 PM
I've been avoiding this issue, but will fire out my post.

The 'offended' customer Aug556shooter is actually Paul McCain, better known as Amsdorf, who was banned from this forum, and about a half dozen other gun forums, including FNForum and Arfcom, as well as a bunch of church forums, because he is a troll who enjoys posting inflammatory responses, and then launching personal attacks against responders.

He rejoined, not because he asked for re-admission, but because he faked his identity.

So yes, I rejected his order because I recognized who he was, and want nothing to do with him.  His postings suggesting he was hurt because I offered no explanation were because as soon as I rejected his order he EXACTLY knew the reason, but didn't share that because it didn't fit his narrative.

He has since been re-banned from this forum.

So yes, I stand behind my product, and will go to great lengths to make a customer happy.  But I will not abide trolls.
You did the right thing !


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: Border Dave on September 29, 2015, 11:19:40 PM
Way to go Art!  Thanks for letting us know about the troll.

Now, when are you going to release that trigger for the Scorpion?

OK, I know that's getting old, but I really don't want to put anyone else's trigger in my rifle.

Oh, and my Delrin Tav-D has about a thousand rounds through it and I couldn't be happier!  GREAT job on that trigger!  It's the best trigger I've ever owned.


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: Apache on September 29, 2015, 11:56:07 PM
I knew there was something wrong about that POS Aug556shooter. Good for Art ...


Title: Re:
Post by: tattooo on September 30, 2015, 07:59:44 AM
Thanks for the heads up


Title: Re:
Post by: repo on October 13, 2015, 11:04:38 AM
Well TAV-D sells plastic trigger pacts. It should be cheaper than $325

2 by 2...hands of blue



not really. Its not just plastic. It is also completely redesigned to perform flawlessly over time, lower the brake, and shorten the take up. If you don't believe all the people who do love it just buy the aluminum housing one Shooting sight or others offer. I would trade my aluminum one for a "plastic" one anytime. Its just as smooth (possibly smoother), and is lighter. 0 reason not to buy. The machining process is essentially the same but maybe faster on the Delrin. All are hand tested by Art himself. Whats not to like.


Title: Re:
Post by: ShootingSight on October 14, 2015, 09:30:14 AM
Well TAV-D sells plastic trigger pacts. It should be cheaper than $325

2 by 2...hands of blue



Just saw this post.  The Delrin (plastic) packs are actually $315, not $325, and this compares to $340 for the aluminum.  THe $25 difference is exactly because the 'plastic' is cheaper.  The 'plastic' is Delrin, an engineering polymer that is tough, has built in lubricity, resists chemicals and oils.  In fact, the base block of material that I buy to machine out the trigger pack costs more than aluminum.  However on the CNC machine, where I pay by the minute to get parts made, the Delrin machines faster and cleaner than aluminum, so the finished part costs me less.


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: FromageQuiPue on October 14, 2015, 10:52:45 AM
i bought a TAV-D Delrin housing few weeks ago and i love it


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: Agibbs996 on November 03, 2015, 10:57:12 PM
I ordered the Tav-D the other day  because of this thread...and a few videos. ;)


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: 2ndunamended on November 22, 2015, 07:15:11 PM
Quote
For civilian use, where you can take the time to break down and clean your rifle, and you mostly do not shoot in sand, you can eliminate the extra spring with little consequence.

Before finding this thread, I just started another thread on this topic of removing the spring. From what I've read, it would take the stock trigger down from about 11 lbs. to 8 lbs. (plenty desirable for HD).

Is this advisable? Does it present any short or longer term issues (reliability, trigger reset, etc...)? In addition to reducing the trigger pull, does it also reduce the creep/take-up?

Thank you.


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: HMLA-167 Warrior on December 14, 2015, 07:50:03 PM
I've been avoiding this issue, but will fire out my post.

The 'offended' customer Aug556shooter is actually... [snip] ...

So yes, I stand behind my product, and will go to great lengths to make a customer happy.  But I will not abide trolls.


Sorry for the thread resurrection, but not sorry enough not to do it haha.

Art,

I don't know you from Adam, have never met you or purchased anything from you.  Therefore, I had no opinion of you or your business...  until I read this post. The last sentence you wrote really got me.  Bravo. Look forward to purchasing from you in the near future.


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: brodband on January 01, 2016, 04:43:24 AM
I finally got the lightning bow and Geissele super sabra installed and all I can say is...  Night and day difference.

My only complaint was that I had to remove a lot of plastic material for the lightning bow install.  The trigger bar was rubbing really hard against the inside of the receiver and I had to remove some material from where it was rubbing. 

I installed over and over again, removing a little bit of material at a time until I was finally able to get the trigger to swing freely.  My only concern was that in the lightning bow installation manual, it did show that material would need to be removed, but not from the trigger bar rubbing on the side of the receiver, and it was only after removing all of the rubbing material from what the manual suggested that I was able to also find the other points of wear.

Anyone else run into this?

Other than that, this trigger feels lighter than my SSA-E, it's insane!  I just need to test with a pull gauge to be sure.


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: BullpupT on January 01, 2016, 09:26:06 AM
I just got done installing the Lightning Bow and Geissele hammer pack last night. Thanks again Primary Arms for the sale!

My only issue was getting that darn retaining pin to sit flush on top of the hammer. I finally got the hammer pin in the right position and the retaining pin popped right in.  

It was a bit of a pain in the arsss, but the proper position is to have the dimpled end of the pin flush to the receiver. I was putting the pointed end of the pin flush to the receiver because the mag release pin which pretty much identical to the hammer pin had the pointed end flush.


Once I did this everything else fell into place. I didn't need to remove any material from the receiver. I did need to slightly tap the hammer pin back and forth a few C-hairs to center the trigger. Once I centered it I found there was zero resistance.

I guess I got lucky. I did put a drop of oil on the trigger dimple pin that attaches to the trigger bar. This really smoothed things out, as did some oil on the hammer pin itself. It's amazing what a drop of good oil can do.


Did you center the trigger before removing the material? It took me five or six tries to get it perfectly centered. It was tiny little taps that got it centered... I mean barely move the pin, just a tiny tiny bit of adjustment to get it centered. I then worked the trigger back and forth without the hammer pack in. I must have wiggled back and forth extremely fast about a couple hundred times to break everything in. This technique also smoothed things out considerably. My trigger is so "free floating" now that it will wiggle foward and back just by shaking the rifle slightly... Without the hammer pack installed of course.


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: brodband on January 02, 2016, 10:43:11 PM
Yes I attempted to center the trigger.  It didn't matter what position it was in, when I first dropped the trigger in, it was so snug it would barely move at all. 

I have an IDF that is under a 500 serial number so I'm not sure if it being an older model has anything to do with it?


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: BullpupT on January 02, 2016, 10:57:05 PM
Yes I attempted to center the trigger.  It didn't matter what position it was in, when I first dropped the trigger in, it was so snug it would barely move at all. 

I have an IDF that is under a 500 serial number so I'm not sure if it being an older model has anything to do with it?

The early serial number might be the reason. I notice a rectangle section of polymer that was relieved from the factory right where the nub of the trigger connects to the trigger bar. They might of changed if updated the molds in later models. My serial is in the 40k range... A much later gun.

Removing the polymer properly and a little bit at a time won't effect the performance, safety, or reliability in the least. It's nice we both got them working. It's like a whole new rifle!


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: semper paratus on January 03, 2016, 03:25:03 PM
???? - are you having to remove plastic in order to install the trigger pack or just to install the Bow?  If you are removing any part of the plastic - don't you risk effecting any warrantee?

I have Art's triggers in my Tavors and love them


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: BullpupT on January 03, 2016, 08:36:29 PM
He is referring to removing material around the Lightning Bow, not the trigger pack. Mine was fine but I have a late made Tavor.

Anyone how has a trigger pack from any manufacturer should really try out the Lightning Bow. It gets rid of all the take up, the heavy trigger spring is eliminated. It makes the trigger packs feel a lot better. You thing your trigger feels good now with Art's trigger, Timney, or Geessele without the Bow?   

You wouldn't believe the difference the Lightning Bow makes. The stock trigger spring works against the upgraded trigger packs because it creates un needed resistance and additional weight in the trigger pull.  It's well worth the money, and less than 100 bucks.


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: Aussie E on January 03, 2016, 10:04:57 PM
There were a couple of members that installed it on ShootingSight triggers and felt it was too light, also there were some concerns that it eliminated the OEM triggers built in safety.

AE


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: BullpupT on January 04, 2016, 09:23:39 AM
There were a couple of members that installed it on ShootingSight triggers and felt it was too light, also there were some concerns that it eliminated the OEM triggers built in safety.

AE

Understood... Thank you for the additional information. The 2 stage design is made so you can have a light trigger safely. The sear is not exposed until you reach the second stage of the trigger pull. There is a ton of "meat" or metal protecting the hammer from releasing until you reach the wall of the 2nd stage. They really are safe triggers even when you are talking sub 4lbs pulls. They aren't like 1911 single stage triggers. You can safely have a 2 stage trigger and not have to worry about it going off.

My Geissele breaks under 3.5lbs at the 2nd stage but I could drop it repeatedly from 6 feet dozens of times without it going off. I know this because Geissele tested their product this way. They dropped the rifle so many times the barrel pin sheared off before the trigger went off. They dropped it hundreds of times I guess before the barrel pin failed.

I am sure Art's 2 stage trigger would survive the same drop test seeing as its a 2 stage design.

The Timney might be an issue because I think its more of a single stage trigger, without the 2 stage safety design built into it. People shouldn't confuse the two because they are very different triggers both in terms of feel and safety.


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: ShootingSight on January 08, 2016, 02:16:19 AM
The issue is that there is a safety in the trigger linkage, where you need to actually pull the trigger to cam the linkage up over a stop.  This is intended so that the trigger linkage cannot move forward, unless the trigger is pulled.  You can try it on an OEM setup, by removing the trigger pack and sticking your finger up there and trying to push the trigger linkage forward - it is blocked.

Removing that safety feature means that if something, like an impact, were to propel the trigger linkage, or the trigger pack forward, there is no safety block to stop it.  ShootingSight just does not feel comfortable selling such a product, which is why the idea of a replacement trigger was abandoned early in the development process.


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: DILLIGAF on January 08, 2016, 06:04:53 PM

I am sure Art's 2 stage trigger would survive the same drop test seeing as its a 2 stage design.


The TAV-D with trigger Bow passes the drop tests  ;)   



Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: Aussie E on January 08, 2016, 09:10:04 PM

I am sure Art's 2 stage trigger would survive the same drop test seeing as its a 2 stage design.


The TAV-D with trigger Bow passes the drop tests  ;)   



What is the weight of the 2nd stage?

AE


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: DILLIGAF on January 08, 2016, 11:21:53 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-9/11216253_10153687672593552_6780758067656989074_n.jpg?oh=c77181d4ebe35138cacd194a52163f36&oe=57051F9A)


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: Ltrshooter on February 23, 2016, 09:43:00 PM
If I install a lightning bow, will that decrease the pull weight on a stock trigger pack?  Can anyone else confirm that the lightning bow will decrease the pull using a tav d pack.  I am considering both but do not want to get pull weight below about 3 pounds.  Also, any more information on how a lightning bow defeats stock trigger safety. Thanks


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: BullpupT on February 24, 2016, 03:34:51 PM
If I install a lightning bow, will that decrease the pull weight on a stock trigger pack?  Can anyone else confirm that the lightning bow will decrease the pull using a tav d pack.  I am considering both but do not want to get pull weight below about 3 pounds.  Also, any more information on how a lightning bow defeats stock trigger safety. Thanks

It will probably reduce it by more than a pound and you will loose that ridiculous squirt gun feeling to the trigger. The stock trigger has a strong spring that is removed and not reinstalled when you use the lightning bow.

You can use the Lightning bow with both Geissele and Arts hammer packs due to their two stage design.

I have both the Geissele hammer back and Geissele trigger bow. My trigger pull is 3.3-3.8 pounds all day long. It has never broke under 3lbs. Not sure about Arts hammer pack.

The lightning bow is the best bang for your buck with the Tavor.


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: Tavor5.56mm on March 06, 2016, 06:48:49 PM
There were a couple of members that installed it on ShootingSight triggers and felt it was too light, also there were some concerns that it eliminated the OEM triggers built in safety.

AE

I was going to get one of the Lightning bows but I already have a light SS trigger it's at about 4 pounds. And honestly I pull through the slack and 1st stage as one and it doesn't bother me. The biggest issue I could have in a trigger is the break not being crisp. And as owners of Arts triggers know, they are crisp as crisp gets. I was one of the unlucky ones who had fit issues because of my particular rifle. Art sent me a delrin replacement since he was out of aluminum and I said "sure I'll take it"but in the end I shipped back the delrin and made mine work. In the end the aluminum one felt just a tad better and it could have been all placebo effect of me liking the aluminum looks better for all I know. But I do know this, Art stands behind his products and makes a high quality trigger pack.  I've  had some fantastic groupings with my tavor, razor core and the TAV-D.
I haven't tried the super sabra and honestly I don't have any reason to. If I had another tavor I might buy the super sabra just for comparison. Is hard to improve perfection but that's just my opinion.

I realize some of that message didn't have anything to do with what I quoted you about but, I tend to ramble.
.


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: Ltrshooter on March 06, 2016, 10:03:04 PM
Thanks for replies.  I have a Garand and like to support private businesses.  I got the trigger bow first because its cheaper and I did not like so much take up and it dropped my pull about 2 pounds on the stock trigger pack.  I now have about a 6 + lb  single stage trigger.  I am going to use it for a while and probably later get a new trigger pack to lower the weight further, and in general, I prefer a two stage trigger.  So my answer is the new trigger dropped my stock pull by about two more pounds.  Boy the stock set up was pretty lousy at over 11.


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: RCShadow on March 18, 2016, 09:57:12 PM
I feel at a distinct disadvantage.  We ordered both our Tavor IDF's with the Geissele trigger pack installed.  Because of this, my wife and I have never fired ours with the stock setup.  We do have the factory packs stored if needed though.


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: Rick53 on March 19, 2016, 09:53:17 AM
There were a couple of members that installed it on ShootingSight triggers and felt it was too light, also there were some concerns that it eliminated the OEM triggers built in safety.

AE
Art does have TAV-D Packs that are heavier . I have one and you can feel the difference between that and the standard Tav-D


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: Aussie E on March 20, 2016, 01:58:21 AM
There were a couple of members that installed it on ShootingSight triggers and felt it was too light, also there were some concerns that it eliminated the OEM triggers built in safety.

AE
Art does have TAV-D Packs that are heavier . I have one and you can feel the difference between that and the standard Tav-D

Yes, his LEO version is heavier.

AE


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: atjurhs on July 22, 2016, 03:34:30 PM
I've read through this thread and have not seen where the trigger pull poundage is stated for the Timney? 

I've also gone to their website and have not found it?


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: Aussie E on July 22, 2016, 08:31:28 PM
I've read through this thread and have not seen where the trigger pull poundage is stated for the Timney? 

I've also gone to their website and have not found it?

Well for the second and third round it is zero pounds.

AE


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: atjurhs on July 22, 2016, 09:07:06 PM
I don't understand?


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: Aussie E on July 22, 2016, 10:14:40 PM
The Timney's are know to double and triple, pull the trigger once at # pounds and you might get multiple shots! Yea!

AE


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: atjurhs on July 22, 2016, 10:46:32 PM
that don't sound good!


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: Hohopelli on August 13, 2016, 02:58:08 AM
(http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii309/Hohopelli/BB/image_zpsap9kmqi5.jpeg)


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: maansmit on August 15, 2016, 01:16:16 PM
Got my Shooting Sight Tav-D trigger pack installed.  Trigger pull went from 10.5 down to 5.5.


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: meatwaggon on September 18, 2016, 04:43:36 PM
Of the 3, which has the least pull?  Also, I hear there are problems fitting these packs into the newer Tavors and the X95?  Is this true?


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: Aussie E on September 19, 2016, 10:06:46 AM
Of the 3, which has the least pull?  Also, I hear there are problems fitting these packs into the newer Tavors and the X95?  Is this true?

Lightest pull would be the Shooting Sight standard with Geissele Lighting Bow, from reports brings it down to between2 and 3 pounds. My standard Shooting sight was between 4.5 and 5 pounds. I got a Shooting Sight LE for my X95 but have not measured it, also sent in my standard one to get the pull weights approximately the same on both it and the LE.

Don't have a Geissele so can't comment on the pull weight.

Would not even consider a Timney with all the issues they had.

Latest generation Shooting Sight and Geissele fit the latest generation Tavor and  X95 as well as being backwards compatible to older generation Tavors.

AE


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: AZ-Chris on September 19, 2016, 01:44:46 PM
The Geissele Super Sabra has an adjustable pull.  I believe you can adjust it to break as low as 3 lbs.  I have not tried to find the high end of the range as I have adjusted mine to ~4.5 lbs.

Aussie E is correct in that when I coupled my Shooting Sight Tav-D trigger pack with the Geissele Lightning Bow, my trigger pull dropped to below 3 lbs, which was too low for me.  Prior to installing the Lightning Bow, the Tav-D was breaking at ~4 lbs when coupled with the original Tavor trigger bow (which generally sucks).  The Lightning Bow is the single best upgrade to make as it takes all the slop out of the trigger.


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: ShootingSight on September 25, 2016, 09:52:05 AM
The trigger system in the Tavor has 2 springs which make up the pull force: 1 spring is in the trigger pack, and a second spring is in the trigger bow/linkage, which adds about 1.5lb and acts as part of the drop safety.  Together, they make up the total trigger pull.  When you put in the lightning bow, it eliminates the spring and the drop safety in the linkage.

As a result, the ShootingSight trigger which is 4-5lb with the OEM trigger bow, will drop to 2-3lb with the lightning bow.

With the Geisselle trigger, you need to adjust the pull pressure up.  With the Tav-D, you can either order the 'LE' model trigger, which was designed for heavier springs for tactical use (where you do not want a light trigger), or you can send in your trigger pack, and I'll upgrade the springs for free to add some extra weight to the pull.

In reality, while a solid pull in the first stage feels nice, it does nothing to add to the rifle's accuracy.  What matters is the last 1% of the pull, after you have hit the second stage.  Getting that sharp break is what allows the trigger control that will improve accuracy.


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: dmcutter on September 25, 2016, 09:24:23 PM
So what pull weights would you end up with in the X95 with the Tav-D LE and the Lightning Bow?


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: david8613 on November 05, 2016, 09:34:51 AM
As a result, the ShootingSight trigger which is 4-5lb with the OEM trigger bow, will drop to 2-3lb with the lightning bow.



He says it right here...


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: dmcutter on November 06, 2016, 10:04:26 PM
I asked what the trigger pull with the Lightning Bow and the Tav-D LE, not the regular Tav-D. Moot point, though, since I got the Super Sabra.


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: Dodger on November 11, 2016, 09:04:00 AM
Quantico Tactical has a 20% off special on the Super Sabra Gen 2 trigger pack...  Regularly $350, now $280.

1st Stage Weight: 3.5 - 5.5 lbs.
2nd Stage Weight: 2.0 lbs.
Total Pull Weight:5.5 - 7.5 lbs

LINK:   http://www.quanticotactical.com/asp/itemDetail.asp?dispItemNum=4943&type=M&CMN=Geissele&CMNum=245&CMSNum=1121&CMSN=Triggers


Title: Re:
Post by: Hit Factor on November 12, 2016, 12:26:19 PM
Sadly, the trigger and sear pack are not in stock at Quantico Tactical. No estimate is given on how long it will take for delivery.


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: BengalBacker on November 28, 2016, 02:29:09 AM
I got the Geiselle from Primary Arms on black Friday for $245, then I saw that Geiselle had it for the same price with free shipping. Looks like the sale is still on.

https://geissele.com/super-sabra-trigger-tavor.html (https://geissele.com/super-sabra-trigger-tavor.html)

They also have the lightning bow for $69.30.

https://geissele.com/sabra-lighting-bow-trigger.html (https://geissele.com/sabra-lighting-bow-trigger.html)


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: BakerBug on December 08, 2016, 09:51:12 AM
Optics Planet has the Geissele Super Sabra for $305.99, plus a 10% discount code 'holiday'.  With free shipping, my total came to $275.39

http://www.opticsplanet.com/geissele-super-sabra-trigger-pack-for-iwi-tavor-rifles-05-267.html (http://www.opticsplanet.com/geissele-super-sabra-trigger-pack-for-iwi-tavor-rifles-05-267.html)


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: Hud33 on December 11, 2016, 02:01:44 PM
I have been really impressed with my Tavor SAR after installing the Tavorģ X95ô Fire Control Pack.

It is a significant improvement over the stock SAR trigger!

I have held off installing the Giessele Trigger Bow and may find a IWI certified armorer.


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: jack1518 on December 30, 2016, 07:26:35 PM
You can install the lightning bow yourself, I did and it wasn't difficult.  I did buy the IWI Barrel removal wrench for that and followed a You Tube video on my laptop.  It wasn't difficult.


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: wbpo5l on December 31, 2016, 08:47:21 PM
I'm sure after spending more time with the rifle the trigger feel will become more evident. Today was my first session with my new x95. I never did shoot a Tavor so I have no frame of reference. But the stock trigger on the x95 is not bad at all for what it is intended to be.

Having a hard time justifying the cost of a proper trigger upgrade when there are other things you would want to do to make this a "trigger upgrade worthy" rifle in my opinion.  Like making it a fully floated barrel for one.

That said, I'm totally happy with my x95 as it sits for what it is intended to be.


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: Rastoff on January 02, 2017, 01:53:58 PM
I have held off installing the Giessele Trigger Bow and may find a IWI certified armorer.
You don't need a certified armorer. I've done this and it took me all of 15 minutes and that was really taking my time. The included instructions are very good. It might seem intimidating because it seems like you're removing a lot of parts, but once you've done it you'll see that it's not that much.

The hardest part is adjusting the slack. Even so, that's easy.


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: BakerBug on January 03, 2017, 12:55:20 PM
Yesterday was my first range day with the Geissele Super Sabra.  I'm really sorry I waited so long to get it.  It was as if I had a brand new rifle.


Title: Re:
Post by: Hit Factor on January 05, 2017, 02:05:19 PM
Anyone having trouble with the Super Sabra  hammer being too high when cocked. The problem is you can't reassemble after field stripping. Must remove sear pack to get the bolt back in. Also bolt hold open doesn't stay in place once magazine is removed.  

I sent a couple emails to Geissele,  no answer. I'll have to call them.



Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: 1154 on March 18, 2017, 01:14:08 AM
I've been avoiding this issue, but will fire out my post.

The 'offended' customer Aug556shooter is actually Paul McCain, better known as Amsdorf, who was banned from this forum, and about a half dozen other gun forums, including FNForum and Arfcom, as well as a bunch of church forums, because he is a troll who enjoys posting inflammatory responses, and then launching personal attacks against responders.

He rejoined, not because he asked for re-admission, but because he faked his identity.

So yes, I rejected his order because I recognized who he was, and want nothing to do with him.  His postings suggesting he was hurt because I offered no explanation were because as soon as I rejected his order he EXACTLY knew the reason, but didn't share that because it didn't fit his narrative.

He has since been re-banned from this forum.

So yes, I stand behind my product, and will go to great lengths to make a customer happy.  But I will not abide trolls.



^Greatness.  Well done, Sir.


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: Grizz on March 26, 2017, 03:04:05 PM
Great thread!!

I think I'll start with the trigger bow on my x95 and see what that gets me


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: Grizz on April 07, 2017, 04:10:04 PM
Put the bow in and what a difference!!! I really like! It was too windy to even set up targets but I did get to put 30 rnds down range and the trigger was 100% better


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: SemiAuto9 on May 18, 2017, 07:50:47 PM
Just got a X95....what would folks recommend? Bow trigger? Geissele trigger pack? Both? Neither?


Title: Re: Tavor Trigger Shootout: Geissele, Shooting Sight, Timney, & Factory
Post by: MarkB on May 18, 2017, 08:22:32 PM
Try it stock first.  then you will get to know what you need.