BULLPUP FORUM

Bullpup Rifles (Auto & Semi-Auto Centerfire) => IWI Tavor SAR & X-95 => Topic started by: Sgt_P on January 17, 2012, 02:54:48 PM



Title: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: Sgt_P on January 17, 2012, 02:54:48 PM
BullpupForum.com is the first to break the news on a US produced Tavor for 2012!

Trans World Arms in conjunction with IWI, are going to produce and sell Tavors in the United States this year!!

(http://bullpupforum.com/gallery/1_17_01_12_11_51_07.jpeg)

Video to come...


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: wfcwfc on January 17, 2012, 04:13:37 PM
Is that you in the picture SGT P?


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: Sgt_P on January 17, 2012, 04:23:59 PM
That's me!  (please disregard the lack of hair, and belt being loosened over the last few years! - LOL)


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: Sgt_P on January 17, 2012, 04:25:53 PM
Interview with Michael Kassnar from Trans World Arms:

http://www.youtube.com/v/fS3vHnEQXBg?version=3&hl=en_US&rel=0



Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: Frozen Sloth on January 17, 2012, 07:28:00 PM
Great info.  Thank you.  My only disappointment was Mr. K's hesitancy to tell us the anticipated price :(


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: Sgt_P on January 17, 2012, 08:37:06 PM
They haven't set the price yet, but I can say it will be far cheaper than the Canadian price tag!


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: maleante on January 18, 2012, 12:18:19 AM
Very good news! I will be buying one when they eventually come out, hopefully "before the election".


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: hardmack on January 18, 2012, 06:53:45 AM
Saw this on the 'tube... Interesting!


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: Room055 on January 18, 2012, 01:08:29 PM
Looks like a nice well thought out design.  Was the barrel free-floated?


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: HardShell on January 18, 2012, 02:15:21 PM
Very exciting news. 

Will definitely make my (very) short list, and very well may jump to the top.

 :)


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: Nra-Life-Member on January 18, 2012, 09:37:02 PM
Anyone know the companies website.  Could not find an active site.


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: Sgt_P on January 19, 2012, 12:43:19 AM
I don't think the site(s) are up yet.  But the email I got at the show is addressed, so I assume it won't be long on the websites...



Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: Sgt_P on January 19, 2012, 01:30:38 AM
Looks like a nice well thought out design.  Was the barrel free-floated?

I was lucky enough to be able to discuss the Tavor with Larry Vickers (yeah, I just name dropped!), and I asked what he knew about it (he's held many more Tavors than most of us). 
We'll see if he gets us an update!!   8)   ;D



Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: Nra-Life-Member on January 19, 2012, 03:19:02 AM
Can't wait to hear back on this.  :)


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: PapaJoeTx on January 19, 2012, 10:31:48 AM
I assume it will be .223...?


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: Sgt_P on January 19, 2012, 11:29:36 AM
It will be chambered for 5.56, so it will eat through .223 like a champ!


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: SEFTACTICAL on January 21, 2012, 08:52:12 PM
OK I'm brand New to this board... But I'm sure you guys wanted more photos... So I went to the booth.. And were very cool about me taking pictures... So Enjoys Guys
BTW I'm Glenn And I LOVE BULLPUP's

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/gebraddy/TAVOR%2021/IMG_5631.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/gebraddy/TAVOR%2021/IMG_5630.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/gebraddy/TAVOR%2021/IMG_5632.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/gebraddy/TAVOR%2021/IMG_5633.jpg)


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: SEFTACTICAL on January 21, 2012, 08:58:51 PM
MORE FOR YA...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/gebraddy/TAVOR%2021/IMG_5629.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/gebraddy/TAVOR%2021/IMG_5635.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/gebraddy/TAVOR%2021/IMG_5636.jpg)
Notice the rear in rail site that pops up. The front one is like that two. They have 2 models one with a full length rail. And one with a partial.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/gebraddy/TAVOR%2021/IMG_5637.jpg)
Look closely you can see another one under the rail. The top one recesses in the rail. Pretty cool.


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: SEFTACTICAL on January 21, 2012, 09:00:46 PM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/gebraddy/TAVOR%2021/IMG_5635.jpg)
OK here is the last one I have...


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: Sgt_P on January 22, 2012, 12:20:12 AM
Welcome SEFTACTICAL!

Great stills!!  We were so excited about the Tavor, we forgot to get still shots!


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: rhino! on January 22, 2012, 01:09:47 AM
The Tavor looks good. Did I hear they were "building a factory this year" and they hoped to have some available before the elections?

How on earth will that be possible?

Who is going to build it? Charles Daly?

Anyone have any more info?

Rhino!
www.rhino-arms.com


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: rhino! on January 22, 2012, 01:19:49 AM
Anyone have a MSRP Yet?


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: Sgt_P on January 22, 2012, 01:38:53 AM
"Charles Daly" has been working on the Tavor for the US market for many years.  So the project is in the final stages.

It's my understanding that IWI will be establishing manufacturing this year.  What extent of manufacturing is yet to be seen.

So for the "by the election" deadline, the already US manufactured parts and the minimal balance of imported parts will make the first rifles.  

The Tavor already contains many US parts, so assembling a US/ATF compliant rifle, with existing parts, and just a few "new" parts, is possible within the stated time-frame.

Time will tell, but it seems all the pieces are coming together!


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: rhino! on January 22, 2012, 01:44:24 AM
That's really good news as I have wanted to get my own since my shooting the Tavor. It seems that it is a very good weapon but I am concerned with the MSRP. I have several guys in the MC that have MarSoc time and they like them as well. If they can get available soon, I can get 4-5 to have on stock.

Please keep me advised as to any updated data.



Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: Sgt_P on January 22, 2012, 01:48:33 AM
Anyone have a MSRP Yet?

The price for the US rifles hasn't been set yet.

But I'm being told they want to compete.  So with the Canandian rifle retailing for $2500-3000, I'm guessing the basic rifle will be somewhere well below the Canadian price.

I'm planning on having 100 twenty dollar bills ready (give or take a few...)   ;)


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: rhino! on January 22, 2012, 01:57:18 AM
I was going to pick 4-5 of the FNH 2000 model, but then I saw it had problems with anything other than Milspec GI Issue mags. I really hope the Tavor can take Pmags, Arc and Lancer mags.... Most of my customers want those 3 types of mags.

I was thinking that to compete, they had better keep it around $ 1999 USD.... $2500-$3000 is asking a lot, even from me and I can find a gun for anyone!

I am really looking forward to this weapon....


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: SEFTACTICAL on January 22, 2012, 03:33:04 AM
They told me MRSP would be $1999. And Yes they want it out before the Election. And most of the parts are manufactured here anyways because of the great relationship the US has with Israel.
After I saw your post and the Video. I wanted better pictures of this Monster.. I can't wait either. The trigger pull is the only thing I didn't like about it. I figured like all things.. It can be fixed.
Thanks Glenn


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: Sgt_P on January 22, 2012, 10:33:45 AM
For a tactical rifle, I didn't have an issue with the trigger. 

It felt 6-7 lbs, and broke pretty clean.



Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: Room055 on January 22, 2012, 02:27:32 PM
I'm very excited about this Tavor 5.56 platform.  Does anyone who talked to them know why they went with a hand guard instead of a trigger guard?  This is a limiter in customization and aftermarket possibilities, as well as leaving the trigger very exposed.  Just curious?


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: 1968hotrod on February 27, 2012, 10:38:21 AM
Does any one will it use ar mags


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: Sgt_P on February 27, 2012, 08:41:15 PM
definately STANAG!
So most AR mags will work.  Last discussion with Mr. Kassnar, he said they haven't decided on which mags to buy to go in the box...


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: rhino! on February 27, 2012, 09:18:33 PM
I get that, but what about availability, when....


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: Sgt_P on February 27, 2012, 09:36:48 PM
no new news.  As I understand, the project is still on track for the fall...

I expect some production-sample "leaks"/reviews in the late spring or early summer...


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: rhino! on February 27, 2012, 09:54:28 PM
Cool, I hope to order 5 in 5.56 to start, hopefully, everything will work out OK.


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: Andygold on March 05, 2012, 11:19:20 AM
For those who have fired the Tavor...I viewed an episode of Future Weapons that showed the Tavor and Micro Tavor. I noticed that the full size model seemed to have a great deal of muzzle flip, and/or recoil. Yes, I realize we are only talking about 5.56mm, but the video on FW showed some pretty decent muzzle flip - a lot more than I would have expected. That seems like it would have ruined the ability of quick follow up shots.

Does this weapon really flip more than an AR?  Videos of AUGs seem to show next to no flip at all. I was under the impression that one of the bullpup's pluses was ease of follow up shots.


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: rhino! on March 05, 2012, 12:15:42 PM
At this point, as with all weapons, especially with 5.56 62gr., I don't give a flip! The weapons is the point at this point.... man! I'm repeating myself, again.... I want the weapon as is. I think that the availability is the main thing at this point. I have not heard anything from anyone about a date, this year, prior to the election, about getting these puppies into the hands of Americans. That should be something someone is working on

We all need to get this very clear, in my opinion, this weapon, is what needs to be produced and sold this year. I hate vaporware. I hate it when manufacturers say one thing and it comes out 16 months later... Hate it!

Someone from the manufacturer or a rep from IWI needs to get on the forum and tell us whats up.... 


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: Sgt_P on March 05, 2012, 12:45:03 PM
Does this weapon really flip more than an AR?  Videos of AUGs seem to show next to no flip at all. I was under the impression that one of the bullpup's pluses was ease of follow up shots.

Welcome to BullpupForum.com!

The AUG has very little to no flip, but I can't speak to the Tavor (yet!)

We do have a few Canadian members that own Tavor's.  And you should visit the BullpupForum channel on youtube (link at the top of each page) for videos in the "favorite" section of quite a few different folks posting vid's of firing the Tavor.



Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: Snapperhead363 on March 05, 2012, 04:37:00 PM
Its a bullpup and I don't have it. Case closed!


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: Room055 on March 05, 2012, 09:03:11 PM
Oh SNAP!  That's a sexy picture!


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: rhino! on March 06, 2012, 02:14:04 AM
I see the Tavor there has a Magpul mag in it.... good that, the ARC and Lancer mags will work as well. Outstanding.


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: Andygold on March 06, 2012, 10:09:18 PM
Not trying to start a fanboy war here.  Just trying to understand something.  I had been looking to purchase a NIB AUG, but funds are currently a little low for that.  So, I wait, while I save up!!!

With that said, I now see that the Tavor will be made and sold in the US, so that gives me another option.  I happen to like bullpups, currently owning a FNH PS90, and a Gwinn Firearms Bushmaster Arm Pistol (have owned it for 24 years ;D) along with a few non-bullpup rifles.  Another bullpup though would add nicely to my firearms collection. :)

So, I'm looking at the Tavor and trying to find out what differences it has in comparison to the AUG.  All I've seen so far is that it supposedly has sniper rifle accuracy (as mentioned in the Future Weapons TV show) and it uses STANAG magazines.  I'm not downplaying either, just stating these for comparison purpose.  Is there something else that makes it a more desirable weapon than the AUG?  Looks and exclusivity mean nothing to me.  I'm only interested in how the firearm performs.

Also, it seems that originally the rifle was supposed to have a intregal, built-in MARS sight.  Then I read that IWI was also using Meprolight sights.  Then I read that they were going to only have a rail.  Any ideas as to what is supposed to be available here in the US?

any thoughts as to which of the pics on this site might be what's going to be sold here in the US?
http://world.guns.ru/assault/isr/tavor-tar-21-e.html (http://world.guns.ru/assault/isr/tavor-tar-21-e.html)


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: Sgt_P on March 06, 2012, 10:37:57 PM

any thoughts as to which of the pics on this site might be what's going to be sold here in the US?


The bottom picture of the "partially disassembled" Canadian rifle is the closest to what will be available here.

The video on our YouTube channel from SHOT 2012 is the ATF Approved rifle.  So it is the platform.

As for deciding between the AUG and a Tavor is somewhat subjective.  The AUG is proven (in the US) and an excellent rifle.  The Tavor hasn't been in the US market, but is reportedly an excellent product as well.

Both can be made left handed if need be.  And both will come without optics (or as an option).

I'd say keep saving, and get both!!


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: Room055 on March 06, 2012, 10:54:47 PM
The TAR-21's in service with the IDF have Meprolight sights for obvious reasons (Mepro is another Israeli company).  While that is a great sight, it is by no means the only appropriate sight for the TAR-21.  I'm happy to hear they are releasing it as a flattop for that reason.  The sky is the limit as far as optics in the US goes.


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: TWA on March 30, 2012, 04:31:34 PM
For those attending the NRA Show in St. Louis, MO, April 13-15, the Tavor SA will be on display in the Navy Arms booth #2304. Val Forgett of Navy Arms has been kind enough to allow us to share his booth space. Stop by and see us if you get the chance!


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: Sgt_P on March 30, 2012, 04:41:42 PM
For those attending the NRA Show in St. Louis, MO, April 13-15, the Tavor SA will be on display in the Navy Arms booth #2304. Val Forgett of Navy Arms has been kind enough to allow us to share his booth space. Stop by and see us if you get the chance!

Looking forward to it!!  See you there!!!   8)


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: BullPop on March 30, 2012, 04:43:43 PM
its not that pink "hello kitty" one, is it   :o


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: Snapperhead363 on March 30, 2012, 06:02:42 PM
Dang,I wish I could go. Some guys have all the luck! SGT_P, Are you driving there or flying?


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: TWA on March 30, 2012, 06:13:58 PM
its not that pink "hello kitty" one, is it   :o

Over my dead body!


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: Sgt_P on March 30, 2012, 06:17:27 PM
I'm driving!  Riding out there with a friend that is a manufacturer, so his stuff doesn't travel by plane easily!!

Anybody in the NC/SC area want to car pool?!?  (leaving Thursday or Friday, and returning Sunday or Monday)...


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: Snapperhead363 on March 30, 2012, 06:28:18 PM
Let me know what part of Ohio you'll be passing through and maybe we can get a bite to eat.


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: Snapperhead363 on March 30, 2012, 06:40:48 PM
Oops! You won't be coming through Ohio. My bad.


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: Sgt_P on March 30, 2012, 09:35:34 PM
Let me know what part of Ohio you'll be passing through and maybe we can get a bite to eat.

We'll only come through Ohio if the food is really good!!   :faint


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: Snapperhead363 on March 30, 2012, 10:00:09 PM
Oh, I know a place where you can only eat the small steak and two sides. They're ribs are legendary too.


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: PapaJoeTx on April 04, 2012, 06:19:01 PM
We are looking at US production of both the Tavor and the Aug within the coming year...

I own an MSAR, so I believe I have at least a clue of what Aug is looking to put on the market...

I was surprised that the Tavor beat the Aug in our Bullpup March Madness...

So I have a question...What are the strong points that allowed the Tavor to pull ahead of the Aug?


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: HardShell on April 04, 2012, 06:29:33 PM
... So I have a question...What are the strong points that allowed the Tavor to pull ahead of the Aug?

My opinion? 

We've had the opportunities in the past to fondle/shoot/buy/own both imported AUGs and US-built AUGs (not to mention the clones) but, with precious few exceptions, the Tavor is still a big mystery to most of us here.  And an enticing one at that.

In short:  Intrigue!

JMHO.  ;D


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: Snapperhead363 on April 04, 2012, 06:38:25 PM
I was surprised too. The AUG is iconic. But,There's alot of interest in the Tavor right now. I will buy one and compare for myself.


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: Sgt_P on April 04, 2012, 06:46:54 PM
I've "fondled" one, but have yet to shoot the Tavor.

I think the attractive chassis and inherit reputation as an Israeli go to rifle, give it some favorability.



Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: Police Marksman on April 04, 2012, 09:51:38 PM
We are looking at US production of both the Tavor and the Aug within the coming year...

I own an MSAR, so I believe I have at least a clue of what Aug is looking to put on the market...

I was surprised that the Tavor beat the Aug in our Bullpup March Madness...

So I have a question...What are the strong points that allowed the Tavor to pull ahead of the Aug?

The AUG I used to own would not except AR-15 magazines (I don't know if the new model will), The Tavor will except the AR magazines, I think that makes a huge difference.


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: rhino! on April 04, 2012, 09:56:05 PM
If it don't take Pmags, Lancer or other highend polymer mags, I no buyski nada!


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: ICTgunz on April 04, 2012, 10:28:18 PM
Going to throw my two cents in here.  The Tavor is going to be made my IWI.  That means made by the people that designed the thing.  Failure rate should be way low and they take AR style mags (I agree that they need to take Magpul mags or this project is doomed from the get go).  As far as a new AUG goes.. unlike many folks on the Steyr forums who talk crap about MSAR, I have had nothing but good results with MSAR E4 rifles. (even if their business practice sucks)  The AUG platform is cool but if it doesn't take AR mags like the E4... it is dead in the water. Keep the price points reasonable (around 1200-1800 dollars)   If your going to bring a new AUG to the market, my suggestion would be to pick up where MSAR left off and bring out a 9mm AUG that takes Glock mags with a price point of around 700-800 dollars. That would keep it competitive with guns like the Beretta Storm.   Most American shooters do not like bullpup designs and will not put out large amounts of cash on non-traditional rifles.   :-\
Personally, I am stoked for the Tavor.  The guys that I work with at the range are getting sick of me talking about it.


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: PapaJoeTx on April 04, 2012, 11:48:19 PM
Ok, this is exactly what I was looking for :)

Good discussion!

So far we have basically listed 2 main reasons the Tavor took the Quarterfinals:
 1. Intrigue
 2. AR mags

I can see it... good input!

Anyone else? Does anyone have any insight on a comparison between the 2 at the range? Durability? Ease of maintenance?


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: rhino! on April 05, 2012, 01:31:22 AM
I would rather hear the same ol' s*** from some guy art the range, than some guy anywhere else!

My concerns is we are getting nothing from the manufacturer, nothing that I have seen, status reports, factory shots, estimated avail dates, something..... Nothing!

That concerns me...... The fact I have seen a Tavor with a Magpul mag, is good, my concern is the lancer and the ARC Mag, those are the three top mags my customers seem to use.


Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: Sgt_P on April 05, 2012, 08:43:37 AM
The member, TWA, is Michael Kassnar (Owner of Charles Daly), and he did post recently about the Tavor making another appearance at the NRA Meetings in St Louis next weekend.

I've spoken with Mr. Kassnar, and IWI is on track for a Fall release.

I'll ask about the different mags in St Louis and report back!



Title: Re: TWA Tavor for 2012
Post by: rhino! on April 05, 2012, 12:33:43 PM
Great!

One of the reasons I did not get the FN bullpup is that it could only use the USGI Mags. Why would they not make it capable to use all the mags, Magpulls, ARC, Lancers..... I sell those like anything, so I know they are really reliable mags. Any weapons that does not use them, as well as, USGI Mags, is cutting their own throat!

No matter what weapon and what mags get sold to the military and the police, Civilian shooters outnumber them by far. Of course that's also the reason everyone's rights need to be protected and the Constitution respected, revered and protected! Without the Constitution, we are not the Country our Founding Fathers envisioned!