BULLPUP FORUM

Bullpup Rifles (Auto & Semi-Auto Centerfire) => IWI Tavor SAR & X-95 => Topic started by: Gear Head on September 09, 2013, 10:55:02 PM



Title: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: Gear Head on September 09, 2013, 10:55:02 PM
While I had my gun all apart I have been taking the time to study how everything works that we don't see normally. One of the things I noticed was the end of the gas piston guide tube and its relationship to the ejection port cover notch. I have no idea what the actual IWI name is for the "piston guide tube" (PGT) but that is what I am calling it for now.

As many of you know, you can see a gap in the top center of the ejection port cover and gas comes out of there hitting you in the face giving you the condition known as Tavor face. If you look in these pictures you will see how the end of the PGT is right at that notch in the ejection port. The bolt carrier doesn't come all the way out of the PGT during operation but almost. Whatever gas doesn't get vented out the small hole in the gas block itself continues through the PGT into the receiver. Where it goes many directions including in your face.

Well I realized that gas is no longer needed to operate the bolt carrier by the time it reaches this point so if there was a way to vent it in a controllable direction outside the gun body that it would help. You can see in the pictures the bottom side of the PGT through the ejection port. It sticks back about 3/4" or so. I decided I would try drilling vent holes in it at an angle that would aim the gas directly at the open ejection port. In my case with a right hand gun, the right hand ejection port. This theory would work just as well on LH models out the other side.

I just did this today and don't have my gun back in order to test it but I don't see how that could hurt it any. Obviously drilling holes in your gun isn't to be taken lightly but I tend to dive right in to things like this. It is free provided you have a drill but you do have to pull your barrel to get this piece out so it is a little involved. The receiver doesn't have to come out though. This part is also where the IDF rear sight and magnifier mount is I think. So I think it would be possible to switch your flat top gun to an IDF model if you could source this part as well as the correct IDF front sight and short rail or sight to mount directly to the gas block. I know I would like those parts to be able to do this for part design anyway.

This shows the position of the bolt carrier when it is fully rearward. You can barely see the end of the guide rod/gas piston.
(http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r494/Gear_Head_Works/Tavor/Tavor%20face%20prevention%20experiment/IMAG0726_zpse608b878.jpg) (http://s1168.photobucket.com/user/Gear_Head_Works/media/Tavor/Tavor%20face%20prevention%20experiment/IMAG0726_zpse608b878.jpg.html)

Here is the end of the PGT in the receiver.
(http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r494/Gear_Head_Works/Tavor/Tavor%20face%20prevention%20experiment/IMAG0727_zpsef61a910.jpg) (http://s1168.photobucket.com/user/Gear_Head_Works/media/Tavor/Tavor%20face%20prevention%20experiment/IMAG0727_zpsef61a910.jpg.html)

Here is what it looks like through the ejection port.
(http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r494/Gear_Head_Works/Tavor/Tavor%20face%20prevention%20experiment/IMAG0728_zps7aba84c7.jpg) (http://s1168.photobucket.com/user/Gear_Head_Works/media/Tavor/Tavor%20face%20prevention%20experiment/IMAG0728_zps7aba84c7.jpg.html)

Here is the side I modified for a RH gun. You can see the holes are pointed at the ejection port.
(http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r494/Gear_Head_Works/Tavor/Tavor%20face%20prevention%20experiment/IMAG0729_zps7e656c35.jpg) (http://s1168.photobucket.com/user/Gear_Head_Works/media/Tavor/Tavor%20face%20prevention%20experiment/IMAG0729_zps7e656c35.jpg.html)

Here you can see how there is space above the holes when the piston is back allowing gas flow to exit freely instead of being pushed out the crack between the piston and end of the tube directing it more backwards into the receiver.
(http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r494/Gear_Head_Works/Tavor/Tavor%20face%20prevention%20experiment/IMAG0732_zpse4d6e4c0.jpg) (http://s1168.photobucket.com/user/Gear_Head_Works/media/Tavor/Tavor%20face%20prevention%20experiment/IMAG0732_zpse4d6e4c0.jpg.html)

Finally, this is the small gas vent in the gas block that is supposed to vent the excess gas. It looks to be about 1/16" OD versus the diameter of the PGT which is over 5/8".
(http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r494/Gear_Head_Works/Tavor/Tavor%20face%20prevention%20experiment/IMAG0733_zps023cb300.jpg) (http://s1168.photobucket.com/user/Gear_Head_Works/media/Tavor/Tavor%20face%20prevention%20experiment/IMAG0733_zps023cb300.jpg.html)

I don't expect any cycling problem since the vent is at the very end of the tube but I have certainly voided my warranty. Well I think I did that the day after I got my gun actually... ::)


Title: Re: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: NWGlocker on September 09, 2013, 10:57:47 PM
Great post, nice and detailed explanations!

You sure you don't want to call it "SAR face"?


Title: Re: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: Paletiger on September 09, 2013, 11:21:08 PM
Let us know how it functions when you get her all back together;)
Nice work


Title: Re: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: Gear Head on September 09, 2013, 11:24:30 PM
Great post, nice and detailed explanations!

You sure you don't want to call it "SAR face"?

SAR face is a bit easier to say I guess. I didn't name it Tavor face though. I'm not sure where it was first referenced. Maybe Judo's thread.

It will be about a week and a half before I get to shoot it still.


Title: Re: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: Rangerone on September 10, 2013, 06:17:28 AM
This is an interesting approach.  Will you be able to test it with and without a suppressor to see how much it vents?  How will you monitor the venting out the ejection port?

Keep up the mods!


Title: Re: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: Gear Head on September 10, 2013, 10:48:35 AM
This is an interesting approach.  Will you be able to test it with and without a suppressor to see how much it vents?  How will you monitor the venting out the ejection port?

Keep up the mods!

I will be able to test it with a suppressor. I'm not sure how I will be able to measure tho beside knowing that I don't have teary eyes after a mag dump. Lol


Title: Re: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: pretorian on September 10, 2013, 11:32:14 AM
Hmmm...Interesting....


Title: Re: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: Rangerone on September 10, 2013, 07:29:58 PM

I will be able to test it with a suppressor. I'm not sure how I will be able to measure tho beside knowing that I don't have teary eyes after a mag dump. Lol


Maybe a "Range Buddy" can observe or a camera setup... The lack of teary eyes would also work!!!

Hope it works well!


Title: Re: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: GaJoe1950 on September 10, 2013, 10:01:41 PM
Gear Head, I noticed Sugru mentioned in the dented brass thread. I wonder if a thin layer of Sugru under the flange of your Flex swivel (apply to flange, install swivel and trim excess after curing) could act as a gasket to prevent "Tavor Face"?


Title: Re: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: genStrat on September 10, 2013, 10:05:49 PM
Gear Head, I noticed Sugru mentioned in the dented brass thread. I wonder if a thin layer of Sugru under the flange of your Flex swivel (apply to flange, install swivel and trim excess after curing) could act as a gasket to prevent "Tavor Face"?

I used Sugru on my deflector. It seems to have good resilience in that location, but its not under constant pressure; i.e. serving as a gasket. I haven't seen anything to suggest it would hold up or just conform.


Title: Re: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: Gear Head on September 10, 2013, 10:13:53 PM
Gear Head, I noticed Sugru mentioned in the dented brass thread. I wonder if a thin layer of Sugru under the flange of your Flex swivel (apply to flange, install swivel and trim excess after curing) could act as a gasket to prevent "Tavor Face"?

I believe that with the revised design that there may not be a need for anything but there is a flange there that could be used that way.


Title: Re: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: NoShelter on September 10, 2013, 10:27:16 PM
I'm looking forward to seeing the results.

My concern here would the possibility of carbon entering the chamber area and fouling up the works.


Title: Re: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: Gear Head on September 10, 2013, 10:39:01 PM
All the gas is already entering the receiver but being blown back in a radial fashion all over. I am just trying to direct it out of the gun instead of being blown into it.

It would be the same volume of gas as I have not done anything to the gas block to change the amount. I'm just trying to change the direction it goes.


Title: Re: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: NoShelter on September 10, 2013, 11:02:29 PM
It's my (very limited) understanding that some of the gas is expelled during the forward motion of the piston also. It seems like this mod would expel it out of the new ports.

Wouldn't mean that a side-effect of directing the excess gas from the new ports would also mean that more overall gas is coming out?

I'm looking forward to seeing more info!



Title: Re: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: Gear Head on September 10, 2013, 11:43:36 PM
No.

Gas only comes out when the round is being fired. That is the gas that the gun uses to cycle. When the bolt is returning forward, The gas pressure has dropped off and only residual gas remains. It wouldn't be pushed back into the barrel because the restriction for that is too great. So it would get squeezed out from around the piston and into the receiver. In my case now, it would go out the holes. But it is the same amount of gas either way.


Title: Re: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: AZ2000 on September 11, 2013, 12:51:28 AM
GH,   One question on the topic.  As the system sits stock, if you submerge the gun in shallow water and pull it up and fire, the gas system would seem to stay for the most part dry, because there is no pressure to force the air out even though it's submerged.  If you open up the cylinder and submerge it, I am thinking all the air will be forced out due to the size of the openings to the piston cylinder.  If the cylinder is now full of water and all of it does not drain out when you pull it out to fire it, any chance of a water cylinder lock up, the same as in an engine cylinder when you pop a head gasket?  Or can you guarantee it will drain out  fast enough to fire safely?  Just a thought?  It may be the reason for the small gas port opening to release the gas and looking at mine there seems to be a close enough tolerance between the piston and cylinder to keep the water out if the pressure is not to high, or water is not to deep. :2cents


Title: Re: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: NoShelter on September 11, 2013, 08:01:30 PM
No.

Gas only comes out when the round is being fired. That is the gas that the gun uses to cycle. When the bolt is returning forward, The gas pressure has dropped off and only residual gas remains. It wouldn't be pushed back into the barrel because the restriction for that is too great. So it would get squeezed out from around the piston and into the receiver. In my case now, it would go out the holes. But it is the same amount of gas either way.

Thanks for that info. I learn somethin new every day :)


Title: Re: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: Gear Head on September 11, 2013, 11:28:54 PM
GH,   One question on the topic.  As the system sits stock, if you submerge the gun in shallow water and pull it up and fire, the gas system would seem to stay for the most part dry, because there is no pressure to force the air out even though it's submerged.  If you open up the cylinder and submerge it, I am thinking all the air will be forced out due to the size of the openings to the piston cylinder.  If the cylinder is now full of water and all of it does not drain out when you pull it out to fire it, any chance of a water cylinder lock up, the same as in an engine cylinder when you pop a head gasket?  Or can you guarantee it will drain out  fast enough to fire safely?  Just a thought?  It may be the reason for the small gas port opening to release the gas and looking at mine there seems to be a close enough tolerance between the piston and cylinder to keep the water out if the pressure is not to high, or water is not to deep. :2cents

First of all, I am not guaranteeing anything. Heck I haven't even been able to get my gun back together yet to see how it is effected by this if any.

I have no idea about how it will work after being submerged. Either bone stock or with these holes in it. But theoretically, water will find it's way into everywhere. Draining it out faster would be an advantage in your case.

I did a quick search and couldn't find an article I'm pretty sure I read and didn't make up. It talked about amphibious soldiers drilling drain holes in their gun so water ran out faster. The most important thing to drain is the barrel. That is where the bullet would act as the piston in your engine example and explode the barrel.


Title: Re: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: Rangerone on October 06, 2013, 04:27:05 PM
Hey GH:

Any updates on how the "vent holes" working out for directed gas venting?


Title: Re: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: Gear Head on October 06, 2013, 05:10:32 PM
I have only been able to fire a handful of rounds since I did this. Not enough to know how well it works. But the gun had no issues cycling.


Title: Re: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: Rahatto on October 07, 2013, 09:47:16 AM
Interested... ;)


Title: Re: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: bbies1973 on October 08, 2013, 10:53:31 PM
I have only been able to fire a handful of rounds since I did this. Not enough to know how well it works. But the gun had no issues cycling.
So, in other words, no risk in giving it a try?


Title: Re: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: Gear Head on October 08, 2013, 10:56:14 PM
I have only been able to fire a handful of rounds since I did this. Not enough to know how well it works. But the gun had no issues cycling.
So, in other words, no risk in giving it a try?

Only voiding your warranty!  :o


Title: Re: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: Gear Head on October 01, 2014, 09:26:11 PM
I dug this thread up due to a customer inquiry about gas venting. Since it's a year old I'm sure there are lots of new members that haven't seen it so I'm bumping it.


Title: Re: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: SGTTucson on October 01, 2014, 11:52:23 PM
Any update on how effective this is at venting the gas with a suppressor? Do you still end up coughing and squinting tears from the gas?


Title: Re: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: Gear Head on October 02, 2014, 09:40:43 PM
I do not have any kind of definitive data on how much of any this helps. I suppose now that I have more than just the one rifle I could try to test it though.


Title: Re: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: Rangerone on October 04, 2014, 05:42:36 PM
Since you have more than one rifle, would you be willing to look at how much carbon fouling occurs inside the area and trigger pack with and without the holes modification?  I would think it would help (when shooting suppressed) to cut down on the carbon fouling with the excess gas venting out the ejection port.

Thanks for bumping the thread 😄


Title: Re:
Post by: Gear Head on October 04, 2014, 05:59:18 PM
If someone has some really dirty shooting ammo they want to send me, I can shoot it through my test stand. Shooting it with both a stock and drilled tube then filmed at high speed may show the gas venting in different directions.


Title: Re: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: cal50 on October 04, 2014, 08:37:55 PM
If you have access to a good thermal image camera it might show a better gas / thermal flow.


Title: Re: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: Gear Head on October 04, 2014, 08:56:17 PM
If you have access to a good thermal image camera it might show a better gas / thermal flow.

I wish I did!


Title: Re: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: cal50 on October 05, 2014, 02:43:07 AM
If you have access to a good thermal image camera it might show a better gas / thermal flow.

I wish I did!


Me too....I use to.
We had a high dollar IR camera used to shoot buss bars and enclosures for hot spots / high resistance.
It worked good for HVAC apps also.


Title: Re: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: SGTTucson on October 06, 2014, 12:58:44 AM
I'm really curious about possible solutions. I just ran a class today and ran the Tavor for only about 150 rounds suppressed, but it was 2 mags at a time with sustained fire. By the end of the drill, my eyes stung and nostrils burned. I was using an M4-2000 and NO Tula. I also have the plate by GearHead which does help, but I am still coughing. Any thoughts or suggestions? I took the suppressor off for the V-tac drill, I just couldn't take it anymore.


Title: Re: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: Gear Head on October 06, 2014, 01:34:58 AM
There is still a lot of gas that comes up from the rear of the top rail. Unfortunately that is right in your face. You can most likely see it after shooting still floating up from there. It doesn't have the velocity that the ejection port cover has but it's enough to effect you after a bunch of rounds.

I'll try to get my test stand setup with the different gas tubes and see what happens. I just don't know when I will get to it yet though. I have certainly learned a lot about the Tavor gas system and how it works while building the 300BLK, but I still haven't figured out everything or why they did some of the things they did.


Title: Re: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: SGTTucson on October 06, 2014, 03:46:09 PM
This rifle is perfect for running suppressed considering the length. I just wish IWI had or will consider a future solution. I'd be willing to purchase a new barrel if the could build a switch block. I guess I'll have to wait it out and see if any solutions come available. Thanks!


Title: Re: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: genStrat on October 06, 2014, 03:59:50 PM
ok, I'm interested to understand what is needed in the future that isn't already available. If the Tavor is "ok" without a suppressor, then you would think that a suppressor that didn't increase or add to the back pressure (or cycling speed) would be a pretty good thing. Am I missing something?

I know, its kinda off topic. Apologies.


Title: Re: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: l2a3 on July 14, 2015, 11:34:26 PM
Not having  a "Hammer" but will soon, have you thought of allowing the venting the gas in the gas tube before the gas gets to the receiver, like the AK, M-14, AUG, FAL etc?


Title: Re:
Post by: Gear Head on July 15, 2015, 10:25:10 AM
The gas does vent out of the gas block but the hole is small so much of it still travels down the tube and into the receiver.


Title: Re: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: c7aea on March 08, 2016, 02:24:38 PM
Sorry to bring back such an old thread.

GHW did this mod ever work out for you? I recently tried to suppress my Tavor with an omega and it's pretty bad. Im trying to find some possible solutions.

I already have one of your covers BTW. 


Title: Re: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: Drizzet on March 08, 2016, 04:29:24 PM
I would also like to know if increasing the hole size improved the gas issue or caused any malfunctions.


Title: Re: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: Gear Head on March 09, 2016, 12:41:42 PM
Sorry guys I don't have definitive results for you. The gun that I did that mod to has been in pieces for a long time and not shootable.

While I was shooting that gun, it never had any malfunctions though. Those holes are at the very end of the carrier stroke and inertia from the recoiling casing has taken over the force of moving the carrier at that point. The gas pressure drops significantly once the piston leaves the gas block.


Title: Re: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: c7aea on March 09, 2016, 12:54:45 PM
Sorry guys I don't have definitive results for you. The gun that I did that mod to has been in pieces for a long time and not shootable.

While I was shooting that gun, it never had any malfunctions though. Those holes are at the very end of the carrier stroke and inertia from the recoiling casing has taken over the force of moving the carrier at that point. The gas pressure drops significantly once the piston leaves the gas block.


Thanks for the reply.

So I take it you didn't notice any significant reduction in the abundance of gas? I'd think you'd notice right away after the first rapid fire of 3-5 shots. For me it's not so much like the particles and oil that can spray out like on an AR charging handle area. It's just the amount of gas that makes it hard to breathe and burns the eyes. It needs a better way to vent or reduce the gas.

Have you ever thought of developing something with a suppressed/ non-suppressed setting?


Title: Re: Re: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: Gear Head on March 09, 2016, 01:04:00 PM
Sorry guys I don't have definitive results for you. The gun that I did that mod to has been in pieces for a long time and not shootable.

While I was shooting that gun, it never had any malfunctions though. Those holes are at the very end of the carrier stroke and inertia from the recoiling casing has taken over the force of moving the carrier at that point. The gas pressure drops significantly once the piston leaves the gas block.


Thanks for the reply.

So I take it you didn't notice any significant reduction in the abundance of gas? I'd think you'd notice right away after the first rapid fire of 3-5 shots. For me it's not so much like the particles and oil that can spray out like on an AR charging handle area. It's just the amount of gas that makes it hard to breathe and burns the eyes. It needs a better way to vent or reduce the gas.

Have you ever thought of developing something with a suppressed/ non-suppressed setting?
I noticed noticed a difference but it was with a FLEx on as well. I didn't notice a difference that I can remember with a FLEx between the holes and no holes. It's been a couple years ago now I think.

My 300blk gas block was adjustable but I never attempted anything with the 5.56 barrel.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk



Title: Re: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: semper paratus on March 09, 2016, 01:21:14 PM
GH - not being a suppressed person - I see a lot of the newer guns have some sort of gas adjustment - would it be possible to make the current gas block adjustable and have some of the gas bleed out via another means?


Title: Re: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: c7aea on March 10, 2016, 04:39:01 PM
I modified my tube today. However, instead of 2 smaller holes I opted for one larger slit.

(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/12829213_648891889351_6937963305594146139_o.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9)

As seen from the magwell. You can see it angled towards the right side ejection port. You can also see the tip of the gas piston.
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/12795172_648892478171_4498227548265565834_o.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9)


Title: Re: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: Rahatto on March 10, 2016, 04:54:41 PM
Is it possible to open up the current gas vent hole without fcuking up your weapon cycling?


Title: Re: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: pokemon1989 on March 10, 2016, 06:38:01 PM
You could possibly do what MAC did with that PSL to get it to suppress safely.  But you do so at your own risk.  http://youtu.be/TvO-b163k6Q


Title: Re: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: Gear Head on March 11, 2016, 12:02:36 PM
GH - not being a suppressed person - I see a lot of the newer guns have some sort of gas adjustment - would it be possible to make the current gas block adjustable and have some of the gas bleed out via another means?

I don't believe this would be easily done. The factory gas block is a forging that is just big enough to get the job done. So that means it is very hard to drill and tap on top of having very little 'meat' available to do it.

As far as opening up the vent port that is already on it, I suppose that is possible but I do not know what the results would be. Plus you have to press off the gas block to get to the hole to drill it larger. Otherwise you have to drill a second hole.


Title: Re: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: Rahatto on March 11, 2016, 02:29:01 PM
I modified my tube today. However, instead of 2 smaller holes I opted for one larger slit.

(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/12829213_648891889351_6937963305594146139_o.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9)

As seen from the magwell. You can see it angled towards the right side ejection port. You can also see the tip of the gas piston.
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/12795172_648892478171_4498227548265565834_o.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9)


Ok have you fired it yet?  If so how is the back pressure and how is it cycling?
Is anyone from IWI on this Forum? They might be able to get this scientificly tested to see if it's a valid alternate way to do it.


Title: Re: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: c7aea on March 11, 2016, 03:01:56 PM

Ok have you fired it yet?  If so how is the back pressure and how is it cycling?
Is anyone from IWI on this Forum? They might be able to get this scientificly tested to see if it's a valid alternate way to do it.

I haven't shot it yet. Probably early next week some time I will. I don't predict there will be any cycling issues.

I don't think the tube really does much. Like an AK47 gas tube the primary purpose seems to be to guide the piston back into the gas block.

I might even make some more holes further forward on the tube.



Title: Re: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: TNC on March 11, 2016, 04:54:26 PM

Ok have you fired it yet?  If so how is the back pressure and how is it cycling?
Is anyone from IWI on this Forum? They might be able to get this scientificly tested to see if it's a valid alternate way to do it.

I haven't shot it yet. Probably early next week some time I will. I don't predict there will be any cycling issues.

I don't think the tube really does much. Like an AK47 gas tube the primary purpose seems to be to guide the piston back into the gas block.

I might even make some more holes further forward on the tube.



Hats off to you and Gearhead for stepping out there to test such things as this.  I know the feeling of cutting, drilling, or modding on valuable firearm components to hopefully pursue a performance benefit.  Having to drill out the gas port on a stainless steel match barrel recently gave me concern, but sometimes you gotta try something different in spite of the norm.  Let us know how she goes.


Title: Re: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: c7aea on March 16, 2016, 04:30:06 PM
I shot the rifle today. No malfunctions but it's not any better. By the end of the 1st mag my glasses were covered in spray. I'd guess most of the blowback is coming from the chamber area anyway.

Again just my guess, is that there needs to be more of a delay in bolt unlocking to allow the chamber pressure to drop more. Maybe either by a heavier carrier or less gas. But I'm not going to mess with the gas system.

I might just give up on it and remove the suppressor mount. That Silencerco brake is brutal without a suppressor.

And I'll probably call IWI and ask if they will sell me another tube.


Title: Re: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: RabbitSlayer on January 29, 2017, 05:27:37 PM
Can you please do a few mag dumps and see how this works?

I'm getting gassed out without a suppressor, so I want to try buying an extra gas tube and drilling vents in it.
I'm also going to seal off the gun around the rail and other ejections port.


Title: Re: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: chowser51 on February 02, 2017, 04:50:01 PM
I did a gasket maker thing on mine. Under the top rail. Over stuff on the left side. I have the GHW Flex. I'm still getting Tavor faced. Suppressed and unsuppressed. About to give up on the X95 and go back to ARs.


Title: Re: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: Apache on February 02, 2017, 07:54:03 PM
This is interesting, I've shot a couple of thousand rounds (unsuppressed) through my SAR and haven't noticed any more gas than I've encountered with any other rifle be it an AK, AR, FAL, HK91, HK51, AUG or any number of rifles. I did put on a MI port cover but that's all so I'm wondering where you guys are getting all this gas from when shooting unsuppressed, it's kinda strange ...


Title: Re:
Post by: tattooo on February 03, 2017, 10:37:11 PM
Great info....thanks


Title: Re: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: chowser51 on February 09, 2017, 11:00:57 PM
What part does the gas cylinder play in this gun?

It's $10 for another one.  Anyone mess with this yet?  It was suggested in an older thread here but no followups.

Don't have my Tavor or manual with me (left them at work since suppressor was way too hot)
I'm bringing a drill with me when I return to work and drilling a hole in the top rail where the 300blk rail has an access port to adjust for suppression.


Title: Re: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: RabbitSlayer on April 13, 2017, 07:35:14 AM
.
edit
typo


Title: Re: Possible "Tavor face" improvement that is free.
Post by: RabbitSlayer on June 01, 2017, 01:53:15 AM
Any update on this subject ?