BULLPUP FORUM

Bullpup Rifles (Auto & Semi-Auto Centerfire) => IWI Tavor SAR & X-95 => Topic started by: nick112288 on July 09, 2018, 11:07:35 PM



Title: Sar 5.56 or X95 9mm?
Post by: nick112288 on July 09, 2018, 11:07:35 PM
So Iíve lusted after a Tavor ever since they hit the US market, and am now at a dilemma because I have the opportunity to purchase one.

Problem is I have to chose between the 2 in the title. They are both $1500 (which I THINK is a great price for new? Maybe Iím wrong) so price isnít a factor.

As I understand the 9mm conversions are a little hard to come by after the fact, 5.56 not so hard, so I could potentially have 2 guns in 1. Plus some other upgrades and better trigger.

But the SAR also has the classic look that drew me to the weapon. And itís 5.56 from the get go.

This wonít be a primary weapon, I have plenty of those, but I also wouldnít be afraid to use it for defense if the need arose.


Title: Re: Sar 5.56 or X95 9mm?
Post by: VASCAR2 on July 10, 2018, 12:11:37 AM
I own a SAR in 5.56 but shot a 9 MM SAR at the bullpup shoot a couple of years ago.   Iíve handled the X95 but havenít shot either 5.56 or 9 MM X95.

I personally didnít care for the 9 MM SAR because it actually had more recoil than the 5.56.   The 5.56 was smoother shooting for me but in general Iíve not been impressed by PCC.  Iíve shot MP5ís and Colt 9 MM SMG but both those were short barreled full auto.

The only way Iíd want a 9 MM SAR or 9 MM X95 is if I was restricted to shooting at indoor ranges.   I just think the 5.56 trumps the 9 MM version in every scenario but having to shoot at indoor ranges or possibly CQB indoors without hearing protection.

I used my factory Tavor trigger for a few months till I bought a Geissele Super Sabra trigger pack on sale.   I actually mounted a 2.5-10 scope on my Tavor and took it to Wyoming on a prairie dog shoot with the factory trigger.   I hit way more PDís than I missed.

The factory Tavor trigger reminded me of a Glock NY trigger whereas the Geissele SS reminds me of my Geissele G2S or RRA NM 2 stage triggers.


Title: Re: Sar 5.56 or X95 9mm?
Post by: boscoman on July 10, 2018, 09:07:14 AM
I owned a 9mm SAR & still have my 5.56 SAR. I preferred the 5.56. I just found it more fun to shoot than the 9mm. I still prefer the ergonomics of the SAR over the X95. Needless to say, I say buy the 5,56.


Title: Re: Sar 5.56 or X95 9mm?
Post by: Aussie E on July 10, 2018, 02:40:09 PM
Range toy: 9mm
Anything else 5.56mm

AE


Title: Re: Sar 5.56 or X95 9mm?
Post by: BullpupT on July 10, 2018, 05:24:30 PM
Go with the SAR in 5.56mm, you wonít regret it. The 9mm is slightly cheaper to shoot, but not by much. The 9mm is great for indoor ranges that restrict rifle rounds... the 5.56mm is great for everything else.

The SAR is a great rifle in any caliber. I highly recommend the Geiselle hammerpack and lightning bow. It is the most significant mod you can make. It literally shrinks groups in half due to the much improved trigger feel. Some people have issues shooting groups with the SAR, but I think it mostly due to the stock trigger feel. A surprise shot is easy with the Geiselle and we all know a surprise shot is a good shot.


Title: Re: Sar 5.56 or X95 9mm?
Post by: drew_eckhardt on July 10, 2018, 07:30:21 PM

As I understand the 9mm conversions are a little hard to come by after the fact, 5.56 not so hard, so I could potentially have 2 guns in 1. Plus some other upgrades and better trigger.

Conversion kits seem to ship intermittently from IWI, but are obtainable given some patience.  I bought a 9mm X95 kit last week ($700 elsewhere) for use at the indoor range I frequent after work.

Quote
This wonít be a primary weapon, I have plenty of those, but I also wouldnít be afraid to use it for defense if the need arose.

I think the SAR stock shoulders better.

OTOH, with AR-15 location magazine releases the X95 manual of arms is more familiar.  

Both can use a variety of aftermarket triggers.


Title: Re: Sar 5.56 or X95 9mm?
Post by: BullpupT on July 12, 2018, 12:24:18 PM
The X95ís mag release is in a different place than the ARís. Itís actually further back and requires you to undo your grip to activate it.

The SAR has proven to have faster mag changes than an AR by many shooters.

So speed wise when it comes to dropping an empty mag, inserting a fresh mag, then releasing the bolt itís more like...

#1 SAR fastest
#2 AR
#3 X95

The repositioning of the X95ís mag release actually made it slower to reload than the SAR or AR

It makes sense for troops and others who have many years of experience on the AR platform to like the X95 release do to familiarity, but in practice the SAR is the fastest to get back in the battle with only the slightest bit of relearning muscle memory.

I know Gearhead and many others prefer the SARís mag release.

Here is a video comparison. The AR shooter is even using faster mag pouches compared to the SAR shooter pulling his mag out of his pocket. The AR shooter is an experienced match shooter with hundreds of AR reloads under his belt. The SAR shooter is just a regular shooter...


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P-BVc6abkcU


Title: Re: Sar 5.56 or X95 9mm?
Post by: Rastoff on July 13, 2018, 12:38:59 PM
Regardless of the caliber, I recommend the X95. The SAR is a good gun, but IWI will stop supporting it soon.

The X95ís mag release is in a different place than the ARís. Itís actually further back and requires you to undo your grip to activate it.
I'm not sure how you're activating the mag release, but there's no reason to undo your grip to press the button. At least I don't have to and I have bigger than average hands. If you can reach the trigger with your trigger finger, you can reach the mag release with your trigger finger without breaking your grip.

Also, I don't consider myself fast, but I'm faster with the X95 than an AR. That's just me and I've done no competition, but I am faster on mag changes, and everything else, with the X95 than the AR.


Title: Re: Sar 5.56 or X95 9mm?
Post by: cciman on July 13, 2018, 11:36:28 PM
The X95ís mag release is in a different place than the ARís. Itís actually further back and requires you to undo your grip to activate it.

The SAR has proven to have faster mag changes than an AR by many shooters.

So speed wise when it comes to dropping an empty mag, inserting a fresh mag, then releasing the bolt itís more like...

#1 SAR fastest
#2 AR
#3 X95

The repositioning of the X95ís mag release actually made it slower to reload than the SAR or AR

It makes sense for troops and others who have many years of experience on the AR platform to like the X95 release do to familiarity, but in practice the SAR is the fastest to get back in the battle with only the slightest bit of relearning muscle memory.

I know Gearhead and many others prefer the SARís mag release.

Here is a video comparison. The AR shooter is even using faster mag pouches compared to the SAR shooter pulling his mag out of his pocket. The AR shooter is an experienced match shooter with hundreds of AR reloads under his belt. The SAR shooter is just a regular shooter...


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P-BVc6abkcU


I own both.
The SAR is fast when dropping an empty-- but there are other factors like mag choice- some mags fit tighter than others, and are more reluctant to drop.  Lancer>magpul>aluminum

The back corner of my hand gets pretty sore after a just a few mag drops on the SAR, from hitting that release lever nub with ligaments behind my thumb, and I can't imagine doing that all day or all week long.  Also I have to slightly release my grip hand to make enough backward motion and enough force to actuate the lever.

 Are there other smart ways of doing it, or a way to make it less painful? 





Title: Re: Sar 5.56 or X95 9mm?
Post by: cciman on July 14, 2018, 01:39:38 PM
I found this, would be perfect for a days worth of reloading training

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/cR0AAOSwz~paLrpj/s-l500.jpg)

A week, not so much.  Perhaps I can  mount a piece of  hard plastic shell over that gel.


Title: Re: Sar 5.56 or X95 9mm?
Post by: JRKrejsa on July 14, 2018, 02:24:51 PM
Regardless of the caliber, I recommend the X95. The SAR is a good gun, but IWI will stop supporting it soon.

The X95ís mag release is in a different place than the ARís. Itís actually further back and requires you to undo your grip to activate it.
I'm not sure how you're activating the mag release, but there's no reason to undo your grip to press the button. At least I don't have to and I have bigger than average hands. If you can reach the trigger with your trigger finger, you can reach the mag release with your trigger finger without breaking your grip.

Also, I don't consider myself fast, but I'm faster with the X95 than an AR. That's just me and I've done no competition, but I am faster on mag changes, and everything else, with the X95 than the AR.

Me too.  Iím much faster with my X-95, with not quite 2 years running it.  Iíve been running an AR/M4 platform since the mid Ď90s, and Iím faster now with the  -95. 
Our team has timed mag change/ accuracy drills too, so I consider this an objective opinion.


Title: Re: Sar 5.56 or X95 9mm?
Post by: semper paratus on July 15, 2018, 03:47:04 PM
I have 2 9mm carbines - a terry and berretta storm - both half the price of a Tavor in 9mm with the Berreta being the same length and the terry an inch or two shorter - and both are fantastic shooter - forgot - I even picker up a CZ 9 carbine