BULLPUP FORUM

Bullpup Rifles (Auto & Semi-Auto Centerfire) => Desert Tech MDR => Topic started by: AF Gunner on July 09, 2018, 09:07:35 AM



Title: MDR Accuracy
Post by: AF Gunner on July 09, 2018, 09:07:35 AM
I wanted to start this out because I have been getting terrible accuracy with my MDR. The sad part is I don't want to complain because I have a working rifle.  After this weekend I'm at around 950 rounds with my rifle and 460 since I last cleaned it. The short back story is nearly all of that is surplus M80 stuff from different manufactures, PMC, MEN, Lake City. With ball ammo the best I have done is about 3" at 100 yards. But most of my groups are 3 to 5 inches.

I thought it was me, but I have a friend that is really good with his bolts guns and he was getting the same. I shot some hunting rounds from 150gr to 180gr and had the same size 3-5 inches, this was done with the rifle clamped in a lead sled.

I did shoot one box of Sig Match Elite 168 OTM SMKs also in the lead sled and I was around 1.5 to 2.0 MOA. This is by far the best groups I have gotten with my rifle. I expect my rifles to be able to shoot around 1 MOA and am very disappointed that I have not been able to do so with my MDR. I want to be fair and do need to shoot some more match ammo, but I wanted to see what some of you are getting.



Title: Re: MDR Accuracy
Post by: thehun on July 09, 2018, 09:32:14 AM
MEN is probably the most accurate M80 ball out there other than, believe it or not, the Malaysian L2A2 out of semi-auto (American Eagle ball seem to do good as well from reports...but I haven't use them).

What were your groups with MEN? I don't have a MDR but my LMT MWS groups at 1.5-2MOA with MEN and L2A2...and .75MOA with 155gr TMK out of a 16" barrel (soon to be chopped to 13.5").

You might try 155gr TMK out of the barrel and see what happens...I know it has 1:10 twist...but the MDR might be like the LMT where it likes lighter match ammo vs the heavier stuff.

The military requirement for M80 ball is I believe 10" @ 600 yards for what its worth which is like 1.6-1.7 MOA at 100yards for reference...so if you are getting 2 or so MOA...I don't think you have much to worry about...but if you are grouping outside of 3" consistently with those ammos...you might give DT a call.


Title: Re: MDR Accuracy
Post by: Blackandwhiteknight on July 09, 2018, 01:21:03 PM
AFGunner, I have been able to get MOA or better out of my MDR (coming up on 1300 rounds) but only with handloads.

(https://s19.postimg.cc/pmme6soib/KIMG0608.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/vasoxosun/)

 The thing that bothers me is the inconsistency.  What would normally be considered flyiers I think is attributed to something more fundamentally broken.  A while back I brought up the really low feed ramps as a concern, not only for reliability and feeding but accuracy as well.  With this much impact with the feedramp all kinds of bad things could be happening to the bullet while chambering. Here's what I'm referring too.

(https://s19.postimg.cc/vb2ufq57n/693.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/vb2ufq57j/)

  I have completely written off using ballistic tip bullets of any kind due to concerns of bent and broken tips.  The other thing that may be happening is setback and tilt due to neck tension issues.  If the neck tension is off in one case compared to the previous it could shift the bullets alignment in the case neck, and it will engage the lands crooked.  Obviously not a good thing.  Even a little bit of setback will alter the chamber pressure, and thus consistency.   A lot of setback... well that's really bad, like kaboom bad.

  With the load I posted above I seem to be holding a real consistent MOA but I'm not sure I want to try many other loads. I think a moderate load behind a cannilured FMJ (mine likes 150's), with a solid crimp is about all the MDR will do.  Fortunately there are quite a few .223 bullets that should work really well, given the constraints of the MDR's design.  I almost think DT should post a warning about using non cannilured bullets in the MDR.  I'm sure that wouldn't go over well though...


Title: Re: MDR Accuracy
Post by: Siris on July 09, 2018, 01:58:06 PM
AFGunner, I have been able to get MOA or better out of my MDR (coming up on 1300 rounds) but only with handloads.

(https://s19.postimg.cc/pmme6soib/KIMG0608.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/vasoxosun/)

 The thing that bothers me is the inconsistency.  What would normally be considered flyiers I think is attributed to something more fundamentally broken.  A while back I brought up the really low feed ramps as a concern, not only for reliability and feeding but accuracy as well.  With this much impact with the feedramp all kinds of bad things could be happening to the bullet while chambering. Here's what I'm referring too.

(https://s19.postimg.cc/vb2ufq57n/693.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/vb2ufq57j/)

  I have completely written off using ballistic tip bullets of any kind due to concerns of bent and broken tips.  The other thing that may be happening is setback and tilt due to neck tension issues.  If the neck tension is off in one case compared to the previous it could shift the bullets alignment in the case neck, and it will engage the lands crooked.  Obviously not a good thing.  Even a little bit of setback will alter the chamber pressure, and thus consistency.   A lot of setback... well that's really bad, like kaboom bad.

  With the load I posted above I seem to be holding a real consistent MOA but I'm not sure I want to try many other loads. I think a moderate load behind a cannilured FMJ (mine likes 150's), with a solid crimp is about all the MDR will do.  Fortunately there are quite a few .223 bullets that should work really well, given the constraints of the MDR's design.  I almost think DT should post a warning about using non cannilured bullets in the MDR.  I'm sure that wouldn't go over well though...

I've not had any issues with any of the special tips my budy has been hand loading for me. The ramps dont look too different from the scar but I'll see if I can get a direct side by side tonight.


Title: Re: MDR Accuracy
Post by: AF Gunner on July 09, 2018, 02:58:09 PM
I have not reloaded in a long time and probably wont start as I would need to purchase all new equipment and I'm not sure that is a rabbit hole I want to go down right now. I saw your post earlier on the bullet height and I have not polished my ramps yet, guess I need to do that. I would think some good M80 ball should at least give me 2 MOA, but as guys stated above, it's the flyers. I might get a decent 3 shot group then a flyer. I don't know, its just frustrating.

I also think being a Bullpup, it can be tough to get comfortable behind the rifle like a standard bolt gun. Which is somewhat what I was attributing the accuracy too... basically Me. But this last week I used a rest and was still seeing it. I think if I was see 2moa with ball and 1 or better with match, I would be fine.

I could still be me, but I'm thinking at this point something is up.


Title: Re: MDR Accuracy
Post by: Blackandwhiteknight on July 09, 2018, 04:19:43 PM
I have not reloaded in a long time and probably wont start as I would need to purchase all new equipment and I'm not sure that is a rabbit hole I want to go down right now. I saw your post earlier on the bullet height and I have not polished my ramps yet, guess I need to do that. I would think some good M80 ball should at least give me 2 MOA, but as guys stated above, it's the flyers. I might get a decent 3 shot group then a flyer. I don't know, its just frustrating.

I also think being a Bullpup, it can be tough to get comfortable behind the rifle like a standard bolt gun. Which is somewhat what I was attributing the accuracy too... basically Me. But this last week I used a rest and was still seeing it. I think if I was see 2moa with ball and 1 or better with match, I would be fine.

I could still be me, but I'm thinking at this point something is up.

You should be getting a solid 2 MOA with M80. Mine does that easy.


Title: Re: MDR Accuracy
Post by: kfeltenberger on July 09, 2018, 05:04:18 PM
My plan for the next trip is to use a Caldwell Lead Sled and do as much as possible to remove the human element while ensuring that the rifle is secured.  Also, I'll take 10 round PMags to remove the "monopoding" issue that longer mags cause.


Title: Re: MDR Accuracy
Post by: thehun on July 09, 2018, 06:03:45 PM
If you don't have 10rd PMAGS let me know...I'll lend you mine two for your testing...just throwing it out there.


Title: Re: MDR Accuracy
Post by: kfeltenberger on July 09, 2018, 07:47:59 PM
If you don't have 10rd PMAGS let me know...I'll lend you mine two for your testing...just throwing it out there.

Thanks for the offer!  I have one that came with my Mossberg MVP, and that should suffice, but I still want to pick up a couple more because of PA's weird hunting laws and the hope that we will get the ability to hunt with semi-autos next year.


Title: Re: MDR Accuracy
Post by: thehun on July 09, 2018, 09:54:04 PM
Anytime.


Title: Re: MDR Accuracy
Post by: ney1 on July 11, 2018, 03:23:08 AM
Ensure your barrel block screws are tight, we red lock tight them from the factory.


Title: Re: MDR Accuracy
Post by: AF Gunner on July 11, 2018, 08:10:28 AM
Ensure your barrel block screws are tight, we red lock tight them from the factory.

Thanks for checking in Nick!.

I checked torque on the two barrel screws frequently and they are always torqued down tight, I don't believe I have ever had them come loose. I did check them on my last range visit and the they were good. I will check to see if the red lock tight is present when I get home.


Title: Re: MDR Accuracy
Post by: mityno1 on July 11, 2018, 08:41:38 AM
Have you removed and reinstalled the barrel?

One reported problem with the SCAR-17 is that some have shipped with the "canted barrel" problem. That is where, for whatever reason, the barrel was not fully seated in proper axle alignment to the receiver. It was installed at the factory by FN just a little off-center, "canting," usually slightly to the left or to the right. It is easily fixed by removing and reinstalling the barrel fully seated squarely with the receiver.

My speculation here is that if FN has shipped some of its modular SCAR's with a very similar barrel mounting system as the MDR with the barrels canted slightly, I see that same issue as an MDR possibility since I have no MDR to verify this theory with. This possibility could easily be eliminated by removing and reinstalling the MDR's barrel just to make sure it is seated squarely before tightening the barrel screws.

Also removing the barrel would allow a close inspection of the chamber and mating surfaces with the receiver to make sure everything is clean and square with no burrs or other minor obstructions that could affect barrel alignment and accuracy.

No two rifles will ever shoot exactly the same, not even two sequential sequence number rifles off of the same assembly line on the same day. There are reasons for this.  Minute differences in tolerances and tolerance stacking are primary among these reasons. Just like no two barrel riflings are exactly the same, which is why modern forensics can do a pretty good job of matching fired projectiles to the firearm that fired them.

In your case, your accuracy appears to be far enough off from the average being reported from other MDR's that it has to be some factor more than normal minute variances. Hopefully, it will be something obvious that you can spot and correct yourself.  


Title: Re: MDR Accuracy
Post by: AF Gunner on July 11, 2018, 12:04:22 PM
The barrel has been on and off several times with similar results. Always torqued to the proper specification using a torque limiter. it's would hard to cant the barrel on the MDR because of the gas block and rail section. I could see maybe a slight variation, but not much because of the gas block and single rail still need to align with the receiver.


Title: Re: MDR Accuracy
Post by: knipple on July 11, 2018, 05:16:43 PM
Have you removed and reinstalled the barrel?

One reported problem with the SCAR-17 is that some have shipped with the "canted barrel" problem. That is where, for whatever reason, the barrel was not fully seated in proper axle alignment to the receiver. It was installed at the factory by FN just a little off-center, "canting," usually slightly to the left or to the right. It is easily fixed by removing and reinstalling the barrel fully seated squarely with the receiver.

My speculation here is that if FN has shipped some of its modular SCAR's with a very similar barrel mounting system as the MDR with the barrels canted slightly, I see that same issue as an MDR possibility since I have no MDR to verify this theory with. This possibility could easily be eliminated by removing and reinstalling the MDR's barrel just to make sure it is seated squarely before tightening the barrel screws.

Also removing the barrel would allow a close inspection of the chamber and mating surfaces with the receiver to make sure everything is clean and square with no burrs or other minor obstructions that could affect barrel alignment and accuracy.

No two rifles will ever shoot exactly the same, not even two sequential sequence number rifles off of the same assembly line on the same day. There are reasons for this.  Minute differences in tolerances and tolerance stacking are primary among these reasons. Just like no two barrel riflings are exactly the same, which is why modern forensics can do a pretty good job of matching fired projectiles to the firearm that fired them.

In your case, your accuracy appears to be far enough off from the average being reported from other MDR's that it has to be some factor more than normal minute variances. Hopefully, it will be something obvious that you can spot and correct yourself.  

The MDR is packaged in a hardcase that is too short to use with an assembled MDR.  The MDR barrel is not installed in the receiver when you open the case.  You have to follow the instructions in the owners manual to assemble the rifle.


Title: Re: MDR Accuracy
Post by: Blackandwhiteknight on July 11, 2018, 08:37:37 PM
Ensure your barrel block screws are tight, we red lock tight them from the factory.

Thanks for checking in Nick!.

I checked torque on the two barrel screws frequently and they are always torqued down tight, I don't believe I have ever had them come loose. I did check them on my last range visit and the they were good. I will check to see if the red lock tight is present when I get home.

The barrel block screws are the four smaller torx head screws that hold the block in the receiver.


Title: Re: MDR Accuracy
Post by: newguy2k3 on July 11, 2018, 09:53:31 PM
From the few hundred rounds I've put through mine it seems to be a little more accurate than my MWS. The poi seems inconsistent from day to day though. I haven't kept track of all the barrel r+I's and times I've cleaned it though so I can't link it to any one thing right now.


Title: Re: MDR Accuracy
Post by: HBeretta on July 11, 2018, 10:05:17 PM
I expect my rifles to be able to shoot around 1 MOA and am very disappointed that I have not been able to do so with my MDR. I want to be fair and do need to shoot some more match ammo, but I wanted to see what some of you are getting.

I understand your disappointment Gunner, but it seems your expectations parallel the prelaunch speculation and alleged accuracy claims; DT never guaranteed 1 MOA - not implying you weren't aware.  3 moa or worse with ball sounds about right and agree that you need to burn through more match ammo to have a fair assessment rather than hoping for above average results with subpar ammo.


Title: Re: MDR Accuracy
Post by: AF Gunner on July 12, 2018, 09:24:31 AM
The barrel block screws are the four smaller torx head screws that hold the block in the receiver.

Thanks for clarifying. I'll definitely check them.


Title: Re: MDR Accuracy
Post by: AF Gunner on July 12, 2018, 09:28:05 AM
I understand your disappointment Gunner, but it seems your expectations parallel the prelaunch speculation and alleged accuracy claims; DT never guaranteed 1 MOA - not implying you weren't aware.  3 moa or worse with ball sounds about right and agree that you need to burn through more match ammo to have a fair assessment rather than hoping for above average results with subpar ammo.

Agreed; however, I don't think MEN and Lake City should be getting 5 MOA. From what I have heard they should be around 2. I think the 1MOA and smaller would come for better ammo. If I was getting 2 MOA maybe even 3, I don't think I would have started this thread.


Title: Re: MDR Accuracy
Post by: Slateman on July 12, 2018, 10:18:24 AM
I expect my rifles to be able to shoot around 1 MOA and am very disappointed that I have not been able to do so with my MDR. I want to be fair and do need to shoot some more match ammo, but I wanted to see what some of you are getting.

I understand your disappointment Gunner, but it seems your expectations parallel the prelaunch speculation and alleged accuracy claims; DT never guaranteed 1 MOA - not implying you weren't aware.  3 moa or worse with ball sounds about right and agree that you need to burn through more match ammo to have a fair assessment rather than hoping for above average results with subpar ammo.

I'm sorry, but over $2000 for a non-NFA/collectable rifle that cannot shoot 1 MOA with premium ammunition is simply not acceptable. Ever.


Title: Re: MDR Accuracy
Post by: thehun on July 12, 2018, 11:22:23 AM
I understand your disappointment Gunner, but it seems your expectations parallel the prelaunch speculation and alleged accuracy claims; DT never guaranteed 1 MOA - not implying you weren't aware.  3 moa or worse with ball sounds about right and agree that you need to burn through more match ammo to have a fair assessment rather than hoping for above average results with subpar ammo.

Agreed; however, I don't think MEN and Lake City should be getting 5 MOA. From what I have heard they should be around 2. I think the 1MOA and smaller would come for better ammo. If I was getting 2 MOA maybe even 3, I don't think I would have started this thread.

Correct. LC and MEN M80 ball or any NATO M80 ball is spec'd to shot 10" at 600'...so that is just under 2MOA...that is the spec...MDR should be able to rock and roll 2-3MOA with NATO M80 all day long as a semi auto...especially MEN...which is known to be the most accurate M80 ball out there...Lithuanian GGG ammo is good too.


Title: Re: MDR Accuracy
Post by: Ditcher on July 12, 2018, 08:36:25 PM
Could the accuracy lose be due to the quick change barrel set up?


Title: Re: MDR Accuracy
Post by: thehun on July 12, 2018, 09:50:20 PM
Could. Yes. Should. No.

LMT has proven that a quick change setup does not hinder accuracy in any way.


Title: Re: MDR Accuracy
Post by: kfeltenberger on July 12, 2018, 11:04:25 PM
Could the accuracy lose be due to the quick change barrel set up?

I would tend to doubt it.  The barrels on my two are pretty rock solid.  The only way I think there would be an issue is if you tried to remove the muzzle device while the barrel was still installed in the receiver; then you might torque the barrel somewhat and cause issues.


Title: Re: MDR Accuracy
Post by: HBeretta on July 13, 2018, 12:09:59 AM
I'm sorry, but over $2000 for a non-NFA/collectable rifle that cannot shoot 1 MOA with premium ammunition is simply not acceptable. Ever.

fortunately, some owners have reported as much with match.  unfortunately for gunner, he's not one of them.  i am curious as to what his results will be with match varietals.  not sure anyone had the expectation of 1 moa with ball.     


Title: Re: MDR Accuracy
Post by: Ditcher on July 13, 2018, 11:52:55 AM
If this is a faxon barrel I know they had the same issues in the ar world.  You might get a good one you might not.  But Faxon normally is fast on making it right.  But since its going through DT I'm not sure how that would work.


Title: Re: MDR Accuracy
Post by: AF Gunner on August 20, 2018, 09:48:01 AM
I've been silent on this issue for awhile now but I want to post an update.

I'm very very disappointed in Desert Tech's customer service. I contacted then in mid July about sending by rifle back to have it checked out for the 8 fasteners that attach the barrel block to the upper receiver. because of this post
Ensure your barrel block screws are tight, we red lock tight them from the factory.

I removed one of the eight fasteners and it did not have red Loctite on it and that's when I decided to let DT fix it. First I called and left messages, note I said messages. No reply, not one. Then I left a web message off of their website for warranty. I received a email message the next day. We went back and forth several times and at the end of the day he said he was going to send me a return shipper. I never received it, even after several more tries. So I AGAIN contacted warrant through their website. Again they got back to me and apologized.. someone went on vacation. So again we go back and forth answering the same questions and this one asked me to fill out their contact form with my issues and a bunch of other questions. I filled it out and sent it back, guess what? The emails stopped again. Again I sent several follow up emails to them for my shipper and no response. It's funny, in both cases, once I got ahold of someone, we had clear and quick communications but as soon as it came time for them to send me a shipper. The coms dropped out. Not one word after the mention of them sending me a shipper, even if they were the ones that said they were going to send it.

Even though I didn't want to do it because I wanted DT to take of their issue. I was tired of not being able to shoot my rifle. I removed all eight fasteners cleaned them and the barrel block and reinstalled them. These are all T15 M5-0.8, but there are two different types used one is a standard counter sunk type and the other has a shoulder under the flat head fasteners, that's 4 of each kind. There was very little Loctite on them and the ones that did have it was blue not red lock tight. All of the fasteners came out easily without heat. I.e. blue Loctite. I replaced all 8 with red and torqued to 40 in-lbs as advised by DT. This was just done this weekend on 8/18/18. I'm not sure when I'll get out to shoot it again, hopefully soon. But this whole mess really pissed me off.

My rifle has been pretty good but I have not been happy with the accuracy I've been getting and this is what led me to this issue. I don't know if this will fix it or not, my guess is not. but hopefully it does. I was told several time during my coms with DT that there is not accuracy guarantee, I got it, I do. But man can you at least fix your own issues without over a month of email and no response. I think they should have a Accuracy guarantee! How about 3MOA, I mean you can't even guarantee 3MOA. I think one would be better but hey I'll give you some leeway, give me 3MOA.

I'll leave you all with this. This issue seems to be popping up now. I've see at least 3 case reported on the MDR Facebook group. So this is another one to add to the list.

And Desert Tech if you want to get ahold of me, you have my contact info.

Curtis Kaufmann

Photos of the repair. Noting the fasteners and threaded holes.



Title: Re: MDR Accuracy
Post by: kfeltenberger on August 20, 2018, 12:47:14 PM
I've been trying to work with DT for the better part of a month and a half to get a refund on the two gas valves that I bought before they decided to make them a free retrofit.  So far I've been bounced from Warranty/Service to Sales, to someone who answered the phone and said she'd help me.  Sales, despite several messages being left, never returned my call.

I understand how things can be overwhelming, I worked and later ran a fairly active call center for several years.  However, we always returned the calls, even if we did have to triage them and determine which were the most important, we still returned every call within one shift.  Not replying to calls or e-mail isn't just bad customer service, it's rude and disrespectful to the consumer who has spent at least $2500 on one of your products.  This is behavior I'd expect from Jennings, Lorcin, or some other pot metal gun company that sells something for a C-note.  It is not something that I expect from a company that is essentially selling the exotic sports car of the firearms world.

It's time for DT's support staff to start stepping up and doing their jobs.  When I had to return both my MDRs earlier this year, I had to send an e-mail prodding for RMA numbers and return tickets.  As a consumer, I shouldn't have to do a supervisor's job to get the issues resolved.


Title: Re: MDR Accuracy
Post by: Articlion on August 20, 2018, 01:34:39 PM
The way that the barrel block is held in is one of the problems with accuracy and the mdr as a whole. The taper on the 8 screws is the only thing holding the barrel block to the receiver and they are inadequate, their should be two lugs on each side that lock into  a hole in the receiver and the screws should hold it in place and not be expected to maintain alignment. unforutinetly mine broke again and is getting repaired but its just a bad design and is one of the may downfalls of the rifle and yet another reason why it will never be military grade.


Title: Re: MDR Accuracy
Post by: AF Gunner on August 20, 2018, 03:47:35 PM
Warranty reached out to me this afternoon and I'm going to send it back in to go over it and replace all 8 of the fastener that hold the barrel block.


Title: Re: MDR Accuracy
Post by: thehun on August 20, 2018, 03:58:24 PM
I've officially given up on the MDR...too many cookie cutting.

Hope things improve for you all.


Title: Re: MDR Accuracy
Post by: Aussie E on August 20, 2018, 05:22:15 PM
Barrett = Great CS
Emailed for a RMA to convert a BORS from Leupold to Nightforce.
Reply in 30 minutes to issue RMA and get my address.
Email sent with address.
Reply in 5 minutes with FedEx shipping label.
That gentlemen is how it is done.

AE


Title: Re: MDR Accuracy
Post by: BullpupT on August 20, 2018, 05:47:28 PM
Barrett = Great CS
Emailed for a RMA to convert a BORS from Leupold to Nightforce.
Reply in 30 minutes to issue RMA and get my address.
Email sent with address.
Reply in 5 minutes with FedEx shipping label.
That gentlemen is how it is done.

AE

Off subject but,

BORS?... what model Barrett do you have? I have been contemplating a M107 or 82A1 with 29in barrel. The 82A1 is like 3 grand cheaper so I might go with that earlier model. I wonít be using a suppressor due to the horrible nanny state I live in. I guess a big selling point of the m107 is itís suppressor ready configuration which I donít need.

So... should I save three grand and go with the 82A1 or just spring for the M107? I found a NIB 82A1 with Leupold and BORS for $7600. You obviously shoot 50bmg so your opinion is much appreciated. A M107 is pushing 9-14k depending on options



Title: Re: MDR Accuracy
Post by: Aussie E on August 20, 2018, 07:18:32 PM
Duh.......Bullpup (plus I ain't rich) M99. Wish I had the M95.

http://bullpupforum.com/index.php?topic=502.0 (http://bullpupforum.com/index.php?topic=502.0)

BORS has been discontinued, Optics Planet has them on close out for under $800.

AE


Title: Re: MDR Accuracy
Post by: Blackandwhiteknight on August 20, 2018, 10:47:35 PM
The way that the barrel block is held in is one of the problems with accuracy and the mdr as a whole. The taper on the 8 screws is the only thing holding the barrel block to the receiver and they are inadequate, their should be two lugs on each side that lock into  a hole in the receiver and the screws should hold it in place and not be expected to maintain alignment. unforutinetly mine broke again and is getting repaired but its just a bad design and is one of the may downfalls of the rifle and yet another reason why it will never be military grade.

Just curious, How many rounds before the failure? What ammo, and what kind of accuracy where you getting?


Title: Re: MDR Accuracy
Post by: Articlion on August 20, 2018, 11:24:37 PM
so heres the deal i got my riffle back from a warranty repair for a bad barrell prior to sending it in i had bought a bunch of surplus over the last few years anticipating the mdrs arrival from different manufactures s patronen austrailan surplus, sm chemnitezer german surplus, ppu serbian surplus, fggm 168 and 175 and dt match i could not get any of the surplus to cycle through the gun with out getting stuck in the chamber and the accuracy was 5 moa. i got the rifle back and figured alright i got  a good barrel its been gone over with a fine tooth comb by the experts at dt its ready to go.  head to the range with the same assortment of ammo plus i added pmc bronze 147. well the accuracy was still terrible 5 moa and of course its still sticking cases. so i headed over to cabbellas and bought 2 boxes each of everthing they had in 308 trying to find something that functions and would be accurate. head back to the range and still 5 moa and still stuck cases the only ammo i could feed reliably was the pmc bronze, fggm, dt match and nosler match. after that little experiment i decided to run the pmc since its affordable and it wasn't sticking cases. since i received it back from warranty  i put about 500 rounds of various ammo through it and another 800 of the pmc bronze through it. after my last trip out with it i was barely able to hit a dryer at 350 yards with it and i notice pieces falling out of the receiver thats when i found the broken barrel block


Title: Re: MDR Accuracy
Post by: Clarke-Sensei on August 20, 2018, 11:43:01 PM
Damn, man. Sounds like they should replace the whole rifle.


Title: Re: MDR Accuracy
Post by: Blackandwhiteknight on August 21, 2018, 12:46:36 AM
Okay, sounds like the assembly department is dropping the ball. If I had to take a guess I would say the block was not installed true to the receiver and was torqued improperly leaving it crooked or twisted.  There really should be an indexing lug to prevent this.  Ive noticed on some guns the screws do not sit flush all the way around. That would be a red flag that something is not equally torqued and evenly set in the receiver.  All it would take is a little tolerance discrepancy between the holes drilled in the block and the bevels in the receiver and the dude making minimum wage with a torque wrench gets lazy and does one side at a time and the whole thing is jacked. :(


Title: Re: MDR Accuracy
Post by: Slateman on August 21, 2018, 06:52:59 AM
Okay, sounds like the assembly department is dropping the ball. If I had to take a guess I would say the block was not installed true to the receiver and was torqued improperly leaving it crooked or twisted.  There really should be an indexing lug to prevent this.  Ive noticed on some guns the screws do not sit flush all the way around. That would be a red flag that something is not equally torqued and evenly set in the receiver.  All it would take is a little tolerance discrepancy between the holes drilled in the block and the bevels in the receiver and the dude making minimum wage with a torque wrench gets lazy and does one side at a time and the whole thing is jacked. :(
There really should have been a lot of things in this project. It's pretty obvious that DT doesn't know what they're doing and doesn't know how to hire people to alleviate that issue.


Title: Re: MDR Accuracy
Post by: Box on August 21, 2018, 12:20:44 PM
Okay, sounds like the assembly department is dropping the ball. If I had to take a guess I would say the block was not installed true to the receiver and was torqued improperly leaving it crooked or twisted.  There really should be an indexing lug to prevent this.  Ive noticed on some guns the screws do not sit flush all the way around. That would be a red flag that something is not equally torqued and evenly set in the receiver.  All it would take is a little tolerance discrepancy between the holes drilled in the block and the bevels in the receiver and the dude making minimum wage with a torque wrench gets lazy and does one side at a time and the whole thing is jacked. :(

I hope they listen to this type of feedback and make revisions to future generations of the MDR.


Title: Re: MDR Accuracy
Post by: thehun on August 21, 2018, 01:51:59 PM
so heres the deal i got my riffle back from a warranty repair for a bad barrell prior to sending it in i had bought a bunch of surplus over the last few years anticipating the mdrs arrival from different manufactures s patronen austrailan surplus, sm chemnitezer german surplus, ppu serbian surplus, fggm 168 and 175 and dt match i could not get any of the surplus to cycle through the gun with out getting stuck in the chamber and the accuracy was 5 moa. i got the rifle back and figured alright i got  a good barrel its been gone over with a fine tooth comb by the experts at dt its ready to go.  head to the range with the same assortment of ammo plus i added pmc bronze 147. well the accuracy was still terrible 5 moa and of course its still sticking cases. so i headed over to cabbellas and bought 2 boxes each of everthing they had in 308 trying to find something that functions and would be accurate. head back to the range and still 5 moa and still stuck cases the only ammo i could feed reliably was the pmc bronze, fggm, dt match and nosler match. after that little experiment i decided to run the pmc since its affordable and it wasn't sticking cases. since i received it back from warranty  i put about 500 rounds of various ammo through it and another 800 of the pmc bronze through it. after my last trip out with it i was barely able to hit a dryer at 350 yards with it and i notice pieces falling out of the receiver thats when i found the broken barrel block

BUT its super dupper strong MIM parts....as DT has claimed. Barrel Block SHOULD NEVER EVER BE MIM...EVER.


Title: Re: MDR Accuracy
Post by: dmitry on August 25, 2018, 04:34:08 PM
A lot of its inaccuracy is just the inherent nature of semi-automatic bullpups, and their ergonomics.


Title: Re: MDR Accuracy
Post by: Sawdustshot on August 26, 2018, 12:23:23 AM
BUT its super dupper strong MIM parts....as DT has claimed. Barrel Block SHOULD NEVER EVER BE MIM...EVER.
What exactly are you basing this on? Unless Articlon is referring to something not shown in his pictures, it was a screw that broke, not the block itself. There's no reason that MIM can't be used to make the blocks to 90-95% completion, leaving only the threads to tap and the bore to be reamed or ground to final diameter. If they're skimping on finish machining, that's on DT.

I'd put my money on the block moving in the receiver. As AF gunner has shown, the screws aren't even being properly secured. Maybe they could have gotten away with screws if all 8 were countersunk and properly bonded instead on 4 being counterbored, but I'd still trust some kind of lugs or pins more.