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Bullpup Rifles (Auto & Semi-Auto Centerfire) => Desert Tech MDR => Topic started by: CabbitOne on April 16, 2018, 09:41:56 PM



Title: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: CabbitOne on April 16, 2018, 09:41:56 PM
I decided I'd start a topic to document my (hopefully pleasant) experience with the MDR. I'll keep updating this (https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?topic=13025.0) original post as I add information and add a simple reply of "updated" and answer any questions I catch. I'm going to try to be as thorough as possible, documenting everything I can think of, and adding pictures. I'm also going to try to remember to take higher resolution photos of anything significant. So here it goes:

My MDR should be arriving at my FFL on Wednesday(04/18/18) and I plan on picking up up Friday (04/20/18) with a range trip the following day. Initial outing will just be a break-in and to try to get a feel for the rifle. I'll have three magazines with me and be shooting new Lake City M80 Ball. Assuming it doesn't fall to pieces on me, I'll follow up with an accuracy report in the subsequent weeks. For the initial trip, the MDR will only be sporting an Aimpoint Micro T-1 that I'm stealing from a different gun. I'll find...something... to run for a little more precise work.

(04/16/18)
I loaded up two magazines in preparation for my first outing with the MDR. Both are unused and were sealed in their package prior to today. One is a 25 round Lancer magazine in Translucent Dark Earth. The other is an old generation 20 round non-windowed PMAG in black. Both were fully loaded to allow the springs to set. PMAG date code is 06/2010. LANCER date code is 10/2016.
(https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20704;image) (https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20703;image)


(04/21/18)
Picked up the rifle yesterday but unfortunately I didn't get to play around with it till very late at night. The packaging in nice, though I can see sending a disassembled rifle being an issue for a good chunk of the market. Along that line, stupid me forgot I needed an 80 in/lb to put it together. So that + horrible weather has delayed my first outing.
(https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20732;image) (https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20731;image)

Went ahead and loaded the factory 20 round PMAG date code 02/17 yesterday.


(https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20734;image) (https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20733;image) (https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20736;image) (https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20735;image)
First impressions (external and controls). It's a little ass heavy. Not bad, but it's noticeable. Not an issue at all once it's in the shoulder. Reminded me the first time I picked up a Tavor SAR after shooting AUGs forever. The foregrip, seems fragile which makes sense since people seem to be breaking them. The more I think about it, the more disappointed I am with their execution of the top rail. By making it part of the receiver it canít be replaced. It canít be replaced and is very short. The extension would normally be the hand guard but Iíd hesitate running anything precise on the factory hand guard. Furthermore they did away with the factory integral front sight(not a big deal) but replaced it with a single rail slot. Iím sorry, but I feel as though it either should be 2-3 slots to accommodate irons or a variety of red dot mounts OR should be gone entirely allowing aftermarket handguard rails to fit against the recover. It almost seems like they tried to go halfway in two different directions. All of this to add that you cannot (easily) access the gas regulator without an aftermarket tool.

While Iím on it about the handgaurd, the attachment method isnít how I would have done it. Not saying itís wrong, but the single crossbolt and 30 in/lb torqued mlok pads seem like an odd choice.

The trigger, at least on my example, is quite serviceable. No, its not a Shooting Sight or Geissele, but I'd take this any day over my gen 1 SAR trigger. Very curious to see how it changes with use. The barrel lock control could us much more of a positive indexing. Not quite mush, but you really have to try to feel where it aligns. Not a huge fan of the position/type of selector switch, hope it will be addressed with aftermarket options. I'm not a fan of the charging handles. They feel like an afterthought. They, at least to me, don't follow the lines of the rifle and look almost as though they should be hinging in a different area. They're the wrong shape for how the rifle operates. Along those lines, personal preference is I wish it had a forward assist or a way to manually move the bolt forward. The hinge down to retract isn't a positive or negative to me, but it might help those who fear knocking the rifle out of battery.

(https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20738;image) (https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20737;image)

The magazine release on my rifle is pretty heavy. I wouldn't necessarily call it stiff, more it feels weighty to me (heavy spring? long fulcrum?). I've been working the right side button and it seems to be improving, or maybe my finger is just getting stronger. lol. Right now I'm at 500 reps. Mine didn't seem as bad as some have reported where they had to use two thumbs to maybe compress it. I could do it with my trigger finger, just wasn't fun/easy. Haven't had time to mess around with the left side or the rear.

Once I pick up a 80 in/lb wrench, I plan to run the charging handle 100-200 times before I actually take the gun to the range.

Putting the rifle together, before I had the hand guard on, made me lust over the idea of an MDR-C in .300 BLK.

I'll follow up later/tomorrow/soon with my impression of the internals.


(bonus 04/21/18 update)
Just tried the gen 1 PMAG in it. Locked up fine. Was able to remove it fine. Left the rifle alone for a bit. Just picked it up and noticed all the magazine releases are dead. As in they just flop loosely around. Oh and of course, nothing will lock into the magwell. I'll post again when/if I find a solution.
Ran the CH a few times letting it slam home, and suddenly the problem righted itself. Tried the PMAG that came with the rifle and it produced the same issue. Noticed the magazine is sticking in the open position. Again the CH slamming fixed it. Tried and it happened again, this time magazine catch returned to normal but I still have dead magazine releases and no magazine will even attempt to lock into the rifle.
Looks like I'll be calling DT on Monday. Had a couple of minutes so I pulled the lower. I'm honestly disappointed by what I'm looking at. There is basically a long arm that connects all three magazine release buttons. This arm acts upon the magazine catch. Well the end of that arm that acts upon the catch is SUPPOSED to slide in a slot in the edge of the receiver. Well either because its damaged and/or poorly designed its able to escape that slot. I'm including three pictures I took that might help explain the issue. Also the polymer near the slot looks chipped/cracked/worked on. I'd love to see a picture of someone else's MDR to see if this is how this area normally looks. First and last photo show after I managed to get it back in the slot. Second photo shows it popping out.
(https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20740;image) (https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20739;image)(https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20742;image) (https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20741;image)(https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20744;image) (https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20743;image)
^ Has anyone tried the Warranty Claim option on their web portal? I just filled it out, but I'll call on Monday anyways. Also want to add that I'm underwhelmed with the alignment between the upper and lower... I'll go into more detail on that later.

(04/23/18)
I called 1 hour before the warranty department opened (because I'm stupid and forgot about the time zone). Called right when they opened +2 min. And called 30 min after they opened. Voicemail every time. Left a message asking for them to call me back and explained briefly what's going on. Will see how long it takes. Just called again one hour later, spoke with someone who requested I send photos with my contact info. Email has been sent, now I wait again. Figure if I donít hear back before end of day Iíll call again. I know Iím not being patient...oh well.
Well I just tried calling after having (wrongly) assumed that the service department would close at 1700 Utah time. Apparently they close at 1500... I guess I won't be hearing anything back about my issue today...

(04/24/18)
Just called one hour prior to the service department closing. Got the voicemail again. Again, left a message with name, phone number, and recounting all the times I've tried thus far to get a response.
Noticed DT posted something on Facebook so I thought, what the hell I'll try messaging them. Loe and behold, Kyle responded to me and is presently getting me an RMA #

(04/25/18)
On its way back to DT. *fingers crossed*
I'll also add that I ran the left side CH 100 times and the right side 100 times.

(04/30/18)
Rifle received by DT today. Already received an email indicating that the service has been completed and is on its way back to me.
I asked what caused the issue or if there is something I should or should not be doing to prevent a reoccurrence. Apparently the magazine release bar was a bit short and that caused the issue. In spite of my issue, I'm still very excited to get the rifle back and actually shoot it.

(05/03/18)
Fun story. I received a rifle back today. I say "a" rifle and not "my" rifle for a reason. So, here is what happened.
I received a fun white MDR box on my doorstep. After bringing it inside and opening it up I was greeted with a beautiful FDE MDR. I opened up the included PMAG and loaded it up. Then I slipped the disassemble rifle out of the plastic wrap and tried the magazine release. Success! it worked without falling apart. It was also noticeably lighter than when I originally tried my rifle. Then being the OCD person I am, I rolled the receiver over to inspect it and continue testing everything. CH works fine... Wait a second, thats not my serial number!
Quick email over to the Warranty Service at DT. My first thought was surely its not the wrong rifle, something must have been wrong with my receiver as well. Nope, receiver was fine. Wrong rifle. My rifle is arriving elsewhere today.
After emailing back and forth and having a enojoyable phone call, I have an overnight shipping label and everything is supposed to be getting resolved.
I'll of course post an update whenever I receive (hopefully) my rifle.
Oh and I'm sure someone will ask, the paperwork with the rifle was not mine. The rifle I currently have was sent in for "Customer broke off pistol grip"
My only regret in all of this is I had hoped to get a black lower... you know for the two-tone look.... and maybe more durable polymer... but no such luck.

(05/07/18)
Received my rifle back today. Assembled everything. So far, only two things are worth mentioning. The barrel lock detent seems more pronounced in both positions. Wasn't told anything was done to this area of the rifle. Perhaps, this is breaking in as well?
The magazine release is heavy. Heavier than my gun was originally and CONSIDERABLY heavier than the gun I had for a day. I'll be curious to see if this breaks in or if I end up contacting DT again. Right now, its impossible to use with my index finger while holding the pistol grip. It can manage it just fine with my thumb.

*500 reps per side, and a few other random presses, and its begun to wear. Still challenging to press, but possible from the pistol grip. A cursory visual inspection isn't showing any sings of damage to the polymer retaining protrusion.
The right side release remains harder to actuate than the left side. Upon closer inspection it actually sits slightly more inward(as if depressed) than the left side while at rest. Furthermore, when compressed the right side is pretty much flush with the lower while the left side protrudes somewhat. Kind of hard to get a picture illustrating this, but here it goes.

(https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20830;image) (https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20829;image)

A little after rep 1000, I started messing around doing magazine changes. I had one instance where the magazine release transfer bar partially slipped from its groove and locked the magazine catch in the open position. My first thought was to press on the catch, but thinking about the tiny polymer retaining tab forced me to separate the upper and lower to check for signs of damage and to help guide the transfer bar back into its slot. (Was concerned pressing on the catch may damage that tab.)

(https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20832;image) (https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20831;image)

Currently on rep 1300-ish and working the rear magazine release. Going of perception of weight, right now Iíd be happier if the rear was the only release and more pronounced.

(05/09/18) First range trip on page 3, apparently Iíve exceeded the character limit on a single post. (https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?topic=13025.msg139730#msg139730)

If I forgot to detail anything or you want to know something, please ask!


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: Blackandwhiteknight on April 16, 2018, 11:01:30 PM
Congratulations on getting your rifle.  I'm 550 rounds into my MDR experience and I can't keep from shooting it any time I get.  I let my buddy run a few mags through it and he says he wants one now. :D  Good choice on the LC M80.  I've had no issues running it through the MDR, it seems to like it.  The Lancer mag would give me pause though.  Hopefully that was a good batch.  Have fun shooting. Interested to see how it goes.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: newguy2k3 on April 17, 2018, 08:57:54 AM
Very curious to hear if the gen 1 pmag works in yours. They fell out of mine in stock form.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: CabbitOne on April 21, 2018, 09:06:57 PM
*updated*


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: CabbitOne on April 22, 2018, 12:29:30 AM
*updated* sigh


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: HBeretta on April 22, 2018, 09:41:39 AM
Whatís with the cheap polymer being used?  First the hand guards now the receivers...  CabbitOne, sorry to see this...Iíd be pissed, especially after dropping close to $3k.  Just seems like with each new member posting about their MDR...it's because there's a problem with it.  

(https://i.imgur.com/tPbmgdkl.jpg)


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: CabbitOne on April 22, 2018, 11:39:57 AM
Whatís with the cheap polymer being used?  First the hand guards now the receivers...  CabbitOne, sorry to see this...Iíd be pissed, especially after dropping close to $3k.  Just seems like with each new member posting about their MDR...it's because there's a problem with it.  

(https://i.imgur.com/tPbmgdkl.jpg)

Donít know if itís cheap polymer or maybe just the wrong polymer. Sometimes I wonder if perhaps they designed the weapon with one material in mind and then used a different material on the product guns. Not necessarily cheaper, just the wrong spec.
Also wonder if the Black rifles are less/more prone to these polymer related failures. Perhaps the process theyíre using to color the FDE is brittlizing the polymer.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: newguy2k3 on April 22, 2018, 01:04:18 PM
I'm not sure if it applies here but I thought I read that one of the reasons Magpul had never put out a fde 308 mag is that the fde polymer is inherently weaker because of something with the chemistry of it.

I didn't think about that when I ordered mine.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: HBeretta on April 22, 2018, 01:42:38 PM
I'm not sure if it applies here but I thought I read that one of the reasons Magpul had never put out a fde 308 mag is that the fde polymer is inherently weaker because of something with the chemistry of it.

I didn't think about that when I ordered mine.

guess we'll have to wait and see how the tavor7 fares considering they're releasing in fde as well.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: hillbillyjim on April 22, 2018, 02:24:48 PM
I havenít really paid attention but are the mdr that coming up with issues all been fde? 


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: thehun on April 22, 2018, 03:52:12 PM
Problems continue...sad day.

That polymer does look "cheap"...meaning...weak....


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: kfeltenberger on April 22, 2018, 03:55:13 PM
Problems continue...sad day.

That polymer does look "cheap"...meaning...weak....

It doesn't feel "cheap", either.  Given that this appears to be a random issue, it could be a curing issue.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: Box on April 22, 2018, 04:03:25 PM
My confidence in the Gen 1 MDR is at zero after all the various and consistent issues Iíve read about across several places.   I really hope it all gets resolved.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: thehun on April 22, 2018, 04:21:12 PM
Problems continue...sad day.

That polymer does look "cheap"...meaning...weak....

It doesn't feel "cheap", either.  Given that this appears to be a random issue, it could be a curing issue.

Everything seems to be a random issue to you...what these "random" issues do uncover...is the lack of actual quality to the end user. These random issue reports with the MDR paints an awful picture of DT's struggle to solidify their QA and QC with the platform. I think we will have to wait for the MDR Gen 2 offering if we want a rifle we can trust...at least in 308...I do strongly hope that the 5.56 variant will have less issues...

DT's saving grace right now I think at this point is the Customer Service Department...obviously DT knows there are ongoing issues with the released MDRs in its current design, materials and manufacturing...we won't ever really know officially....but at least they are taking care of the issues quickly.

I am just glad you all are the guinea pigs this time on a new platform and not me....







Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: CabbitOne on April 22, 2018, 04:42:25 PM
Problems continue...sad day.

That polymer does look "cheap"...meaning...weak....

It doesn't feel "cheap", either.  Given that this appears to be a random issue, it could be a curing issue.

Really though, at the end of the day how many of us can speak with authority as to the true feel vs value of plastics and polymers? To me, PMAGS ďfeelĒ cheap. But I think many people would set me on fire for that opinion. Let me be clear, Iím in no way saying PMAGs are cheap, mearly illustrating the ďfeelĒ is not a good gauge when it comes to such materials.

Iíll also ask again, can anyone share a picture of the afflicted area on a working MDR?


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: Whoops on April 22, 2018, 05:31:00 PM
Yeah, having put a down payment on an MDR I'm not super confident. I have a loose checklist running in my head that will help me decide if I'm gonna be selling it, keeping it and sending it back to DT, or just plain keep it. I'm planning on doing a pretty detailed write-up once I get mine, first impressions, first range trip, and then endurance testing.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: JesseJames38 on April 22, 2018, 05:40:00 PM
I have not read or seen any issues of the polymer with the black rifles.   I know i didnt see any issues with my rifle with the polymer parts when i sent it back to DT.  My rifle should be back wed, and i will take another gander on the inside along with the origional issues i sent the rifle in for.

Jesse


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: Box on April 22, 2018, 06:15:47 PM
Yeah, having put a down payment on an MDR I'm not super confident. I have a loose checklist running in my head that will help me decide if I'm gonna be selling it, keeping it and sending it back to DT, or just plain keep it. I'm planning on doing a pretty detailed write-up once I get mine, first impressions, first range trip, and then endurance testing.

I look forward to it.  We need more of this.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: Blackandwhiteknight on April 22, 2018, 07:06:34 PM
Problems continue...sad day.

That polymer does look "cheap"...meaning...weak....

It doesn't feel "cheap", either.  Given that this appears to be a random issue, it could be a curing issue.

Really though, at the end of the day how many of us can speak with authority as to the true feel vs value of plastics and polymers? To me, PMAGS ďfeelĒ cheap. But I think many people would set me on fire for that opinion. Let me be clear, Iím in no way saying PMAGs are cheap, mearly illustrating the ďfeelĒ is not a good gauge when it comes to such materials.

Iíll also ask again, can anyone share a picture of the afflicted area on a working MDR?

(https://s19.postimg.cc/twlfl79s3/KIMG0449.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/hhynkvi9r/)


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: CabbitOne on April 22, 2018, 07:22:34 PM
Thanks!
So based on that picture the little retaining tab on mine cracked and broke off. Perhaps not the best way to retain the end of that arm.
I suspect, and I have no basis for this suspicion, that the magazine well conversion for the 5.56 magazines would prevent this from happening.
I also suspect if you ONLY ever press the magazine release with a magazine inserted it would increase the life of that tab. However, youíd need to have released the magazine release prior to the magazine clearing that portion of the well.

Continuing down the path of my rambling thoughts, it would seem the polymer needs to be more elastic or that area should be cut away and replaced with a metal insert.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: Blackandwhiteknight on April 22, 2018, 07:59:53 PM
I would think the magazine insert for the the .223 should help support this, yes.  It's going to have to be nice and tight to prevent slop that would effect feeding.  So good news for the .223 is that is should be buried under the insert, and thus protected.  Having a mag in the mag well might help take some of the pressure off the mag catch button, but there is quite a bit of play around the Pmags.

  DT needs to do some damage control on these Polymer parts ASAP.  They are WAY too brittle for this application. They need to find a different vendor and do a recall to fix this.  With high stress parts like the handguard and areas like the magwell relying on this material the breakages are going to keep pouring in.  I bet if you stepped on the lower receiver, not attached to the upper it would snap right behind the pistol grip.  If the MDR keeps using this polymer it will get a reputation of being a gun that breaks. That's really bad PR for a company that claims a highend name.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: kfeltenberger on April 22, 2018, 09:43:57 PM
Problems continue...sad day.

That polymer does look "cheap"...meaning...weak....

It doesn't feel "cheap", either.  Given that this appears to be a random issue, it could be a curing issue.

Everything seems to be a random issue to you...what these "random" issues do uncover...is the lack of actual quality to the end user. These random issue reports with the MDR paints an awful picture of DT's struggle to solidify their QA and QC with the platform. I think we will have to wait for the MDR Gen 2 offering if we want a rifle we can trust...at least in 308...I do strongly hope that the 5.56 variant will have less issues...

DT's saving grace right now I think at this point is the Customer Service Department...obviously DT knows there are ongoing issues with the released MDRs in its current design, materials and manufacturing...we won't ever really know officially....but at least they are taking care of the issues quickly.

I am just glad you all are the guinea pigs this time on a new platform and not me....

One person, perhaps two, has had an issue with the polymer handguard.  Given that's all we've heard about, I'd classify that as a "random" issue.  The CS department is doing what they're paid to do, provide customer service; do you expect them to do otherwise?  Are you hoping that they do otherwise?


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: thehun on April 22, 2018, 10:50:13 PM
What...no...I applaud DT's CS and the way they have handled ALL the issues...I am actually praising DT for having this part of their business squared away.

I bet money DT has seen more CS issues than what has been reported on BPF...not every MDR owner is on BPF.

kfeltenberger...seriously...re-read...what I said...I stated that all the "random" issues we get informed about (polymer, pins, etc) is a reflection of lackluster QA/QC at the factory on the finished product that the end users have been receiving.

Do you honestly think all these issues (no matter how severe) are helping the MDR? No way. Hence why I said that DT's CS is the saving grace...I bet if DT would drop the ball on CS...many others would come out and bash the rifle...its just reality.

I know you are trying to preserve DT's image as much as possible as a purist fan of the brand...but are you seriously going to sit there and pretend the platform is not suffering from initial quality (less than 2000rds fired) on a $2500+ price tag rifle? We haven't even seen how the MDR performs beyond 2500+ rds fired regarding actual reliability...


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: kfeltenberger on April 23, 2018, 01:24:12 PM
What...no...I applaud DT's CS and the way they have handled ALL the issues...I am actually praising DT for having this part of their business squared away.

I bet money DT has seen more CS issues than what has been reported on BPF...not every MDR owner is on BPF.

kfeltenberger...seriously...re-read...what I said...I stated that all the "random" issues we get informed about (polymer, pins, etc) is a reflection of lackluster QA/QC at the factory on the finished product that the end users have been receiving.

Do you honestly think all these issues (no matter how severe) are helping the MDR? No way. Hence why I said that DT's CS is the saving grace...I bet if DT would drop the ball on CS...many others would come out and bash the rifle...its just reality.

I know you are trying to preserve DT's image as much as possible as a purist fan of the brand...but are you seriously going to sit there and pretend the platform is not suffering from initial quality (less than 2000rds fired) on a $2500+ price tag rifle? We haven't even seen how the MDR performs beyond 2500+ rds fired regarding actual reliability...

What I am or am not doing, or that you think I'm doing, isn't material here.  You seem to take the opportunity to loudly proclaim that you're going to wait for some mythical "2.0" version of the rifle and that you think the rest of us are guinea pigs.  To me, that sounds like you're hoping they fail.  That's my *opinion* based on my *observations* of what you've posted.

You provide the ammo and I'll dig up some local folks and we'll put one of my MDRs through a 3000 round test.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: CabbitOne on April 23, 2018, 06:03:27 PM
What...no...I applaud DT's CS and the way they have handled ALL the issues...I am actually praising DT for having this part of their business squared away.

I bet money DT has seen more CS issues than what has been reported on BPF...not every MDR owner is on BPF.

kfeltenberger...seriously...re-read...what I said...I stated that all the "random" issues we get informed about (polymer, pins, etc) is a reflection of lackluster QA/QC at the factory on the finished product that the end users have been receiving.

Do you honestly think all these issues (no matter how severe) are helping the MDR? No way. Hence why I said that DT's CS is the saving grace...I bet if DT would drop the ball on CS...many others would come out and bash the rifle...its just reality.

I know you are trying to preserve DT's image as much as possible as a purist fan of the brand...but are you seriously going to sit there and pretend the platform is not suffering from initial quality (less than 2000rds fired) on a $2500+ price tag rifle? We haven't even seen how the MDR performs beyond 2500+ rds fired regarding actual reliability...

What I am or am not doing, or that you think I'm doing, isn't material here.  You seem to take the opportunity to loudly proclaim that you're going to wait for some mythical "2.0" version of the rifle and that you think the rest of us are guinea pigs.  To me, that sounds like you're hoping they fail.  That's my *opinion* based on my *observations* of what you've posted.

You provide the ammo and I'll dig up some local folks and we'll put one of my MDRs through a 3000 round test.

You two are funny...



^ unrelated to that original post is updated for today... sigh


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: JesseJames38 on April 23, 2018, 06:56:42 PM
I have not tried the warranty claim thought there web portal.  In fact I couldn't find the forum to fill out for the warranty claim. Or the page to fill out the registration of the firearm with Dessert Tech.   I sent a e-mail to WARRANTYSERVICE@DESERTTECH.COM on Sunday night. and Monday morning I got a response back from them.  I received the e-mail around 9AM there time if I am not mistaken. The conversations in the e-mails where polite and to the point, And the other nice thing is there is always a paper trail back with a time stamp of when the whole ball got rolling.  The issues I had with my rifle. the ejector assmembly pin broken, the right charging handle binding up when trying to activate it and the replaceable magazine catch part not wanting to retain the .308 tab are the reasons I sent my rifle in. It arrived there on a Weds and they shipped it out Friday.

Jesse.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: thehun on April 23, 2018, 09:57:42 PM
What...no...I applaud DT's CS and the way they have handled ALL the issues...I am actually praising DT for having this part of their business squared away.

I bet money DT has seen more CS issues than what has been reported on BPF...not every MDR owner is on BPF.

kfeltenberger...seriously...re-read...what I said...I stated that all the "random" issues we get informed about (polymer, pins, etc) is a reflection of lackluster QA/QC at the factory on the finished product that the end users have been receiving.

Do you honestly think all these issues (no matter how severe) are helping the MDR? No way. Hence why I said that DT's CS is the saving grace...I bet if DT would drop the ball on CS...many others would come out and bash the rifle...its just reality.

I know you are trying to preserve DT's image as much as possible as a purist fan of the brand...but are you seriously going to sit there and pretend the platform is not suffering from initial quality (less than 2000rds fired) on a $2500+ price tag rifle? We haven't even seen how the MDR performs beyond 2500+ rds fired regarding actual reliability...

What I am or am not doing, or that you think I'm doing, isn't material here.  You seem to take the opportunity to loudly proclaim that you're going to wait for some mythical "2.0" version of the rifle and that you think the rest of us are guinea pigs.  To me, that sounds like you're hoping they fail.  That's my *opinion* based on my *observations* of what you've posted.

You provide the ammo and I'll dig up some local folks and we'll put one of my MDRs through a 3000 round test.

LOOOOOL....I do not wish for DT to fail...not one bit...but at the same time...I wonít be a cool aid drinker...even though I really want to be.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: rtp on April 23, 2018, 10:14:06 PM
I have not tried the warranty claim thought there web portal.  In fact I couldn't find the forum to fill out for the warranty claim. Or the page to fill out the registration of the firearm with Dessert Tech.   I sent a e-mail to WARRANTYSERVICE@DESERTTECH.COM on Sunday night. and Monday morning I got a response back from them.  I received the e-mail around 9AM there time if I am not mistaken. The conversations in the e-mails where polite and to the point, And the other nice thing is there is always a paper trail back with a time stamp of when the whole ball got rolling.  The issues I had with my rifle. the ejector assmembly pin broken, the right charging handle binding up when trying to activate it and the replaceable magazine catch part not wanting to retain the .308 tab are the reasons I sent my rifle in. It arrived there on a Weds and they shipped it out Friday.

Jesse.

When I had tried to register my MDR on DT's site, the site would error.  I had DT register it for me when the MDR went back.
I did file a case online, and had a call the next day.  I've also received fast responses via email to support@ or warrantyservice@ email addresses, or Jeffs as well.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: patrick711 on April 24, 2018, 08:08:18 AM
Of the people with MDR's just here on BPF how many have had the need to return their MDR's for service?   An about how many people just here have received MDR's ?


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: CabbitOne on April 24, 2018, 03:58:22 PM
Of the people with MDR's just here on BPF how many have had the need to return their MDR's for service?   An about how many people just here have received MDR's ?

That would be interesting to know.


Also updated.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: Lunatic Fringe on April 24, 2018, 04:47:04 PM
I got my MDR the 18th
Only 100rds into break-in and only had 1 failure to lock back on last round. No other issues to report.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: rtp on April 24, 2018, 05:31:56 PM
Of the people with MDR's just here on BPF how many have had the need to return their MDR's for service?   An about how many people just here have received MDR's ?

That would be interesting to know.


Also updated.

Kinda doubting he'll get everyone weighing in here.  Why not a separate thread for those who received their MDR have no issues, minor issues but not sending back, have sent back to DT once, have sent back to DR more than once, etc.  Post in (the non-existent-as-of-now MDR 'owners' thread for round count and if keeping it.)

Received and returned once so far.  360 rounds so far.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: patrick711 on April 24, 2018, 05:55:11 PM
RTP     I like your idea better  than mine.  I'm a simple person, so I just thought only as far as I did, but your idea of a thread with more details on the Mdr's that people here have received would reveal better data. I yield to you sir to go with it.   It could give all of us interesting info.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: rtp on April 24, 2018, 09:09:30 PM
RTP     I like your idea better  than mine.  I'm a simple person, so I just thought only as far as I did, but your idea of a thread with more details on the Mdr's that people here have received would reveal better data. I yield to you sir to go with it.   It could give all of us interesting info.

Best I could throw together quickly.
http://bullpupforum.com/index.php?topic=13052.0 (http://bullpupforum.com/index.php?topic=13052.0)


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: CabbitOne on April 25, 2018, 02:46:21 PM
*updated*


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: CabbitOne on May 03, 2018, 06:52:51 PM
*updated* lol


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: CabbitOne on May 07, 2018, 03:33:48 PM
*updated*


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: JesseJames38 on May 07, 2018, 07:00:47 PM
I am going to assume that they did something with the detent for the barrel lock.   Same thing with my rifle when I sent it in.  I didn't tell them about it, I thought there was something wrong but from what I gathered on the forth it was just the way it was.  And low and behold, when I received my rifle there was a nice click, click for the lock and unlike. Before I sent it in you couldn't feel or hear anything, you had to look at the little indicator on the allen screw and receiver to figure out where it was.   Also with my rifle there was no mention to it being worked on.

As for the magazine release, I took and got some CLP and put at all of the pivot points and that seems to have helped it out a bit.  Some times I think the grease they have is a little to heavy for some areas.  in other areas its just not placed at the contact points.  Such as the pins for the linkage at the counter balance,  the ramp at the fwd mag release.   the pivot points at the aft mag release and other pins/contact area.

But now that you have the rifle back. Its time to see if you can take it to the range and see if you can break it for real. Instead of it arriving FUBAR.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: CabbitOne on May 07, 2018, 09:23:29 PM
I am going to assume that they did something with the detent for the barrel lock.   Same thing with my rifle when I sent it in.  I didn't tell them about it, I thought there was something wrong but from what I gathered on the forth it was just the way it was.  And low and behold, when I received my rifle there was a nice click, click for the lock and unlike. Before I sent it in you couldn't feel or hear anything, you had to look at the little indicator on the allen screw and receiver to figure out where it was.   Also with my rifle there was no mention to it being worked on.

As for the magazine release, I took and got some CLP and put at all of the pivot points and that seems to have helped it out a bit.  Some times I think the grease they have is a little to heavy for some areas.  in other areas its just not placed at the contact points.  Such as the pins for the linkage at the counter balance,  the ramp at the fwd mag release.   the pivot points at the aft mag release and other pins/contact area.

But now that you have the rifle back. Its time to see if you can take it to the range and see if you can break it for real. Instead of it arriving FUBAR.

Thats strange about your barrel lock. How many times had you installed/removed the barrel prior to sending yours back?

I plan to lube up the contact points in the assembly... but after I shoot it. God forbid it breaks again on me on the first outing and DT claims its is because I removed their super secret special lube.  :P


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: JesseJames38 on May 07, 2018, 11:18:42 PM
Not sure what I am looking at in the photo.
 As for how many times I installed the barrel.  I put it on there about a half dozen times. But I spun the allen key around a few different times. I don't remember what it looked like before I sent the rifle in. But the way it felt, I think they put that spring on the wrong side of the retainer clip
 
With any luck it will be a uneventful outing


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: CabbitOne on May 07, 2018, 11:39:39 PM
Not sure what I am looking at in the photo.
 As for how many times I installed the barrel.  I put it on there about a half dozen times. But I spun the allen key around a few different times. I don't remember what it looked like before I sent the rifle in. But the way it felt, I think they put that spring on the wrong side of the retainer clip
 
With any luck it will be a uneventful outing
Which photo?

That would make sense.

Hope so!


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: JesseJames38 on May 07, 2018, 11:55:41 PM
the last photo you uploaded, the one where your looking at the underside of the forearm


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: Zeiram3f on May 08, 2018, 12:07:30 AM
My barrel lock spins around with no click either. I heard it once but could never find it again. Thereís no resistance either - so I just use the notch as an indicator and torque the other two screws and call it good. I guess the gas adjustment knob feels similar as well. The detent canít be felt. I have to visually verify the position, otherwise I canít tell by feel alone.

My mag release could use some work. Sometimes it actually sticks and I have to press the magazine lock (on the LH side) to reprime the magazine release.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: CabbitOne on May 08, 2018, 12:40:34 AM
the last photo you uploaded, the one where your looking at the underside of the forearm

Sorry, there is a limit on the forum to the number of photos you can attach to a single post. So whenever I have a new photo for the main topic it gets attached to my last ďupdatedĒ post and inserted into the original post.
The photo is me trying to show that the magazine release buttons are uneven. One will compress flush with the lower while the other will still pertrude when compressed.

My barrel lock spins around with no click either. I heard it once but could never find it again. Thereís no resistance either - so I just use the notch as an indicator and torque the other two screws and call it good. I guess the gas adjustment knob feels similar as well. The detent canít be felt. I have to visually verify the position, otherwise I canít tell by feel alone.

My mag release could use some work. Sometimes it actually sticks and I have to press the magazine lock (on the LH side) to reprime the magazine release.

Intersting. Iíll have to snag a photo or two of the locking mechanism as best as I can and see how it compares to yours.
Yes, my gas knob is pretty mushy. I can feel it in Supprrssed and Adverse but just barely.

I had that happen tonight around rep 1000. I didnít press on the catch for fear Iíd break that little tab and have to send it back again. Split the upper and lower and was able to guide the magazine release bar back into place.
^ Actually emailed DT asking about this happening. Iíve apparently decided to be a squeaky wheel about this gun. I want it to work. I want to love this gun. I want it to be reliable enough to trust my life to.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: Zeiram3f on May 08, 2018, 12:52:14 AM
I want the same. Iíve been that wheel as well. Though, no replies yet. I think for me though, itís going to come down to simple patience. Iíll likely sell my MDR and return in a couple of years. Iím certain things will have cleared up by then. If so, Iíll buy another.


Title: First Range Report
Post by: CabbitOne on May 09, 2018, 01:55:29 PM
Apparently there is a character limit on posts, so I canít add to my original post. Here is range report from today. Iím copying and pasting my notes from my phone so I donít accidentally lose them. Iíll clean up the text and add photos whenever Iím next at a computer.

PMAG 2/17
1 round flawless
2nd stuck in chute
Rest fine

PMAG 1/17
All fine

Lancer
Would not pick up first round 3 attempts
Finally chambered
Fired once
Failed to pick up next round
Live round stuck in chute
(https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20840;image) (https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20839;image)(https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20842;image) (https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20841;image)
Downloaded to 19
First round no issues
Stuck brass in chute
Chambered and fired one
Failed to chamber
Stopping with the lancer for now

Loaded remaining lancer rounds into PMAG 1/17
Failed to chamber first round - piece of brass fell out with round
Magazine catch stuck in ďoutĒ position
Slamming magazine home x2 caused it to slip back into place
Failed to chamber first round
(https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20844;image) (https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20843;image)
Failed to chamber round
Failed to chamber round
(https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20884;image) (https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20883;image)(https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20848;image) (https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20847;image)
Oh Iím stupid, there is a stuck case - ripped case lip
^ maybe the lancer was fine?
(https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20850;image) (https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20849;image)(https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20852;image) (https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20851;image)
Just dropping the rod down the bored cleared the case
(https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20854;image) (https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20853;image)
3 rounds fired - 3rd brass stuck in chute
2 rounds fired - brass stuck in chute
Rest of the rounds fired, small piece of brass on bench shaved the lip of one case but still extracted

PMAG 6/12
First round fired - failed to fully extract double feed - failed to push case towards chute
One fired and ejected
One fired and failed to go into chute - double feed
(https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20860;image) (https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20859;image)
canít retract bolt
(https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20862;image) (https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20861;image)
case is stuck against recoil mechanism
(https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20864;image) (https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20863;image)
managed to get it just far enough back to use the rear bolt release couldnít get it far enough back to lock open with the CH pried round with rod
(https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20866;image) (https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20865;image)

Guess Iíll try normal gas (?) maybe itís over gassing sure wish I could access the gas selector without a tool or removing the hand guard guess itís on normal now(?) very hard to tell - sure glad I brought a torque wrench with me because thatís always a fun tool to need to reinstall the handguard just to adjust the gas system

Single shot filed to even being entering the chute
Trying with chute removed
Fired one, fail to extract
Fired one, fail to extract
Switching back to adverse, maybe itís not ready for normal? Maybe itís not even set to normal? Will have to exam the gas plug and detent when I get home
Lied, tried one more round on normal after messing around with the regulator and detent
Fired one failed to extract
Back to adverse
One round fired and ejected
One round fired and failed to enter chute action bound
(https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20868;image) (https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20867;image)
Trying without chute again - all remaining rounds fired no issues

@85 rounds fired

Trying with chute again - wondering if the chute just needs to be wider and/or longer. Makes me wonder about running a .308 chute on the 5.56 guns.

Loaded both GenM3 PMAGS with 20 rounds each reinstalled chute

PMAG 1/17
Canít load magazine, catch slipped out again.
(https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20872;image) (https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20871;image)(https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20874;image) (https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20873;image)
slamming the mag Home forced it back into place

Fired one, round failed to go into chute
Forgot to mention, my CH is floating
Fired one, stuck case in chamber ripped lip
Trying again without the chute
All remaining rounds fired no issues

PMAG 02/17
Chute reinstalled - sigh
One fired and failed to enter chute
(https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20876;image) (https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20875;image)
 Iím beginning to suspect the bolt isnít traveling quite far enough reward to active the scissor mechanism - either that or the tension on the claw that holds the brass in the chute is just too stiff
Worked the claw 100 times - time to try shooting again
Fired once, failed to enter chute
Fired once, failed to enter chute
Fired the remainder of the magazine
^ ejection seems lethargic with most landing on my firing hand notice one piece of brass go flying to my 10 oíclock.  No idea how that happened unless it bounced off the table, nothing else for it to impact on... unless maybe it somehow hit the CH was it was floating (?)

@125 rounds
Loaded both gen3m pmags with 20 each
Noticed damage/wear on the front of both mags
(https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20878;image) (https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20877;image)
*I donít shoot PMAGS regularly, this might be normal*

PMAG 1/17
Fired two shots, failed to enter chute
Failed to load - did not strip round
Fired one, failed to enter chute
(https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20880;image) (https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20879;image)
checked and I can run that formerly stuck piece of brass through the chute by hand over and over with no problems
Fired one, failed to enter chute - so the end of whatís going wrong is the nose of the case isnít going into the chute before itís getting pushed forward what I suspect is going on is gas related. Either the bolt is traveling too fast for the scissor mechanism to work, or the bolt is short stroking thus causing the brass to enter the chute too far forward
Guess Iíll try the rest of the magazine with the chute removed
All rounds fired. No issues other than my floating CH.

@145 rounds
Loaded 15 rounds in the lancer going to try with chute removed
All 15 rounds fired in rapid secession no issues
 Magazine catch stuck out again

@160
Slamming PMAG 2/17 fixed it.
Fired one round, no issues.
Cleared weapon to reinstall chute
Fired once, stuck case DESTROYED the rim of the case had to use a mallet to get the CH back

Guess Iíll try to find the normal gas setting again? Really sick of having to remove the hand guard to adjust the gas system - if they extended the rail on the gas block forward one or two more slots they could hollow it out to allow you to reach the valve from the top. Or start the handguard with a gap between it and the gas block rail. Or (least desirable but still better than how it is now) have the sides of the handguard opened to access it, though I know Iíd burn myself.

Removed Chute
Fired one, failed to extract. Not enough gas?
Fired one, failed to extract. No gas? cH stuck used mallet

Guess Iíll try suppressed? Because why the hell not at this point - what the literal f***... the rest of the magazine fired no issue. brass looks at lot better

Guess Iíll try with the chute installed.

@180 rounds
Loaded 20 in PMAG 2/17
Fired 3, brass stuck in chute
(https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20882;image) (https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20881;image)
much closer to the correct position
Fired the rest of the magazine - magazine catch stuck out again

@200 rounds
Loaded PMAG 2/17 with 20 rounds
Fired 5 rounds - fail to extract stuck in chamber
(https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20886;image) (https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20885;image)
Fired 3 - stuck in chamber ripped the lip again ... canít go any lower on the gas than suppressed
Fired 8 - fail to eject stuck in chute
Fired 2 - fail to extract stuck in chamber
Forgot to put the chute back on after clearing the last failure - remaining rounds fired without issue.

Emailed DT while at the range. (05/09/18)

No response.

Emailed them again on the morning of  05/11/18. Response later that afternoon. Ooh have a fancy form to fill out detailing my issues.
Form has been sent back to DT.

The gun finally made it to my bench. While playing with the gas regulator I suddenly gained a third (felt) position. I'm guessing carbon or something may have been blocking the detent in that slot? Also, I noticed my right side CH no longer is locking forward(against the receiver). It still works, just flops around loosely. Other than that, nothing seemed particularly noteworthy.
Managed to get two more pieces of metal in my thumb because, like an idiot, I didn't put on gloves beforehand. I'm assuming they were brass, but were so incredibly tiny and my hands were covered in carbon and grease I couldn't tell.

(05/24/18)
Emailed DT to check the status of my gun. Here is the response I received.
"It has been received, and we are diagnosing it now. Yours is showing some slightly different symptoms, so I would like to make sure we get to the root cause."
Sounds... not good?

(05/31/18)
Again emailed DT to check the status of my gun. Here is the response I received;
"...your rifle and a few others have been exhibiting some issues that are out of the ordinary. We are currently doing some very in depth testing of components to see what is causing the issue, so that we can both fix your rifle, and keep it from happening again to other rifles. I donít have a lot of information at the moment, but I should have some soon. Im hoping we will have an easy fix or part replacement that will correct the problem with your rifle. And of course, I will let you know as soon as we do.

Hope and pray they're actually doing the part about preventing it from occurring on other rifles. I want so badly for DT to right this ship and consistently produce the weapon most of us know it could be.

(06/07/18)
Emailed DT at 0800 today. Hopefully something good will come of it.

Received a response;

Quote
Yes, I have addressed almost all the issues with your rifle. It runs great on the XM80 from American Eagle, I also have tried many others; Hornady match, PPU match, PPUxm80, and PMC Bronze. As far as ammo is concerned, I would stick to the better ones, it really liked the AE XM80, and PMC Bronze. I would avoid CBC, ZQi, and the like, not only have I heard of poor performance from customers, but I have seen it here as well. The gun runs fine on Normal, I have attached a video link so you can see for yourself:  *snip*

No word on what was actually done to the rifle, though I'm still emailing back and forth. Just sent an email today (06/08/16) asking when I might receive the rifle back.
I will say, in spite of all the trouble I've had with the rifle. I'm happy with DT's customer service. If I'd had these sort of issues and their CS was horrible.... well I don't even want to imagine it.

Also, I asked about the 6 position gas regulator in relation to my specific rifle. The general consensus is it would not improve current performance. I guess I'll see what happens when I get the rifle back and (assuming it works) start trying other loads and suppression.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: CabbitOne on May 09, 2018, 01:56:23 PM
Spot saved for photos. (Realized I didn't notate every picture I took, so its taking me time to sort through them)


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: CabbitOne on May 09, 2018, 01:56:58 PM
Spot saved for photos.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: Blackandwhiteknight on May 09, 2018, 03:02:39 PM
Dang man, sounds like you had quite the time. :(  Really curious to see your pictures.  What ammo are you using? That's my first thought.  The MDR is really picky about certain kinds of ammo. Definitely doesn't like hot, or cheap ammo. Kind of an odd combo. :-\   I would be really strict in following the break in procedure as outlined.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: CabbitOne on May 09, 2018, 03:07:38 PM
Dang man, sounds like you had quite the time. :(  Really curious to see your pictures.  What ammo are you using? That's my first thought.  The MDR is really picky about certain kinds of ammo. Definitely doesn't like hot, or cheap ammo. Kind of an odd combo. :-\   I would be really strict in following the break in procedure as outlined.

Thatís one way of putting it!
Iíll try to make a point of getting them posted soon.
New Lake City M80.
I feel like I did a pretty good job of following the break in procedure, ran it on adverse till adverse seemed like it was causing problems. Switched it to normal, which doesnít seem to work at all on my Gun. And eventually switched to suppressed.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: JesseJames38 on May 09, 2018, 06:19:39 PM
I think you may be on to something with the chute needing to be open up more.  Of the casings I have recovered when shooting at the range . 3 federal m80 and 1 Remington, I have a big dent in the body just before the shoulder.  And based on where the extractor mark is on the rim and the dent from the ejector, the case is going in and hitting the bottom of the chute on mine before going into the channel.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: thehun on May 09, 2018, 06:31:48 PM
Good thing I won't have these problems on my LMT LM8MWS  :o :o :o I am still hoping the .223 MDR will be much more reliable.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: kfeltenberger on May 09, 2018, 07:25:18 PM
I think you may be on to something with the chute needing to be open up more.  Of the casings I have recovered when shooting at the range . 3 federal m80 and 1 Remington, I have a big dent in the body just before the shoulder.  And based on where the extractor mark is on the rim and the dent from the ejector, the case is going in and hitting the bottom of the chute on mine before going into the channel.

I'm curious whether running it without the chute would remove the problem?  Just some speculative troubleshooting...


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: CabbitOne on May 09, 2018, 08:24:36 PM
I think you may be on to something with the chute needing to be open up more.  Of the casings I have recovered when shooting at the range . 3 federal m80 and 1 Remington, I have a big dent in the body just before the shoulder.  And based on where the extractor mark is on the rim and the dent from the ejector, the case is going in and hitting the bottom of the chute on mine before going into the channel.

Mhmmm

I think you may be on to something with the chute needing to be open up more.  Of the casings I have recovered when shooting at the range . 3 federal m80 and 1 Remington, I have a big dent in the body just before the shoulder.  And based on where the extractor mark is on the rim and the dent from the ejector, the case is going in and hitting the bottom of the chute on mine before going into the channel.

I'm curious whether running it without the chute would remove the problem?  Just some speculative troubleshooting...

Certainly seemed to reduce my issues.

At this point there seems to be something fundamentally wrong with the operation of the rifle. I suspect that the system is attempting to extract the cartridges while pressure is too high. This is causing the ripping of rims. This would cause the inconsistent ejection due to the slight differences in extraction slowing the system by various degrees.
So the gas system (hopefully just the regulator) needs to be replaced and/or the chamber could use flutes. But I suspect that the entire system is just starting extraction too early, so I wonder if more/less gas is really a solution or not.


I really wish we had DT employees (or owners) reading and posting stuff. Iíd love to get another perspective on these issues. Especially from those who have delt with a much larger sample size.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: Blackandwhiteknight on May 09, 2018, 08:40:49 PM
 Sounds like a lot of your problems could be magazine related.  After experiencing issues myself I'm leaning toward the garbage polymer lower as a possible culprit.  I have had several occurrences of the bolt failing to completely go into battery.  Almost all of these are happening in the prone position with the rifle supported on the base of the magazine( PMAG).
  Closer inspection of the magazine fit shows quite a bit of play up and down. Going to test this a bit more soon but I'm guessing I could induce a malfunction on command by putting pressure on the bottom of the magazine.  Simply put, the sloppy poly lower is not holding the magazines firm enough to prevent the pressure on the bottom of the bolt carrier. 

The easiest way I've found to diagnose this problem of failing to chamber is to look in the ejection port and look for the little half circular tab on the side of the bold carrier.  If you see the back of the half cycle in the small box you are good to go. If you cant see it chances are the bolt is out of battery.  Taking a guess I would say sloppy machining of the barrel extension could cause more drag locking, or just dirty could do it too.

 Should look like this if chambered.

(https://s19.postimg.cc/3jqptizn7/KIMG0558.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/bp8rronvz/)

  For the live rounds getting stuck in the chute you need to pull the charging handle pretty briskly to get a live round to cycle correctly out.  Riding it will get you a stuck cartridge every time.  Check ejection port, if not in battery rack the charging handle like you mean it and it should get you going again.

  As for the handguard, I wouldn't worry about the 30in lb torque.  Nothing structural about it. I've just been gently snugging them with the supplied tool and have had zero issues.

 As for the gas regulator.  Not trying to be a smart ass but are you following the manual for the placement of the detents? Detent is were the arrow is not the bottom.

(https://s19.postimg.cc/6dtv6yu3n/KIMG0560.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/73cnjbun3/)

You should get a positive click when it is in the correct location.  Adverse is all you should need for the first 200.

The last thing I noticed looking at your pictures is that in the last one you posted of the ejection chute it looks like the bottom torx bolt is backing out.  Could be the lighting but I don't think you shouldn't be seeing a shine on the top of the bolt head.  If that is backing out it means the barrel trunion is not torqued or secured properly. If that is not tight you could be having all kinds of issues.

  M80 seeing to run pretty good in the MDR but when I was running mine really hot last week I got some major high pressure signs and started tearing rims. Not sure if it was a heat issue or something else.  Over 750 rounds and this is the first time I've had it rip rims off.
Flattened the heck out of the back of the case.
(https://s19.postimg.cc/j581die6b/KIMG0550.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/ew3bbcawv/)


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: CabbitOne on May 09, 2018, 08:51:02 PM
Sounds like a lot of your problems could be magazine related.  After experiencing issues myself I'm leaning toward the garbage polymer lower as a possible culprit.  I have had several occurrences of the bolt failing to completely go into battery.  Almost all of these are happening in the prone position with the rifle supported on the base of the magazine( PMAG).
  Closer inspection of the magazine fit shows quite a bit of play up and down. Going to test this a bit more soon but I'm guessing I could induce a malfunction on command by putting pressure on the bottom of the magazine.  Simply put, the sloppy poly lower is not holding the magazines firm enough to prevent the pressure on the bottom of the bolt carrier.  

The easiest way I've found to diagnose this problem of failing to chamber is to look in the ejection port and look for the little half circular tab on the side of the bold carrier.  If you see the back of the half cycle in the small box you are good to go. If you cant see it chances are the bolt is out of battery.  Taking a guess I would say sloppy machining of the barrel extension could cause more drag locking, or just dirty could do it too.

 Should look like this if chambered.

(https://s19.postimg.cc/3jqptizn7/KIMG0558.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/bp8rronvz/)

  For the live rounds getting stuck in the chute you need to pull the charging handle pretty briskly to get a live round to cycle correctly out.  Riding it will get you a stuck cartridge every time.  Check ejection port, if not in battery rack the charging handle like you mean it and it should get you going again.

  As for the handguard, I wouldn't worry about the 30in lb torque.  Nothing structural about it. I've just been gently snugging them with the supplied tool and have had zero issues.

 As for the gas regulator.  Not trying to be a smart ass but are you following the manual for the placement of the detents? Detent is were the arrow is not the bottom.

(https://s19.postimg.cc/6dtv6yu3n/KIMG0560.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/73cnjbun3/)

You should get a positive click when it is in the correct location.  Adverse is all you should need for the first 200.

The last thing I noticed looking at your pictures is that in the last one you posted of the ejection chute it looks like the bottom torx bolt is backing out.  Could be the lighting but I don't think you should be seeing a shine on the top of the bolt head.  If that is backing out it means the barrel trunion is not torqued or secured properly. If that is not tight you could be having all kinds of issues.

  M80 seeing to run pretty good in the MDR but when I was running mine really hot last week I got some major high pressure signs and started tearing rims. Not sure if it was a heat issue or something else.  Over 750 rounds and this is the first time I've had it rip rims off.
Flattened the heck out of the back of the case.
(https://s19.postimg.cc/j581die6b/KIMG0550.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/ew3bbcawv/)

Interesting. My magazines were not touching anything during firing. The fact that youíre able to (easily) exert enough pressure to induce a malfunction certainly would seem to point to the poor fit of the lower. Also, makes me womder if the system is too slow to begin with and your added pressure is enough to kill it.

Wasnít really having live rounds stuck in the chute. Just spent brass. The couple of live rounds happened only at the start. I guessing that was due to obstructions(brass) in/near the chamber and locking lugs. Trying to clear it with the CH only exacerbated the issue and added the live round stuck in the chute.

I only worried about the torque because the manual calls for it and I didnít want to break anything extra by cutting corners.

Iím reasonably sure I had it in the right position, but Iíll look at my rifle again and make sure I didnít just have a massive brain fart. Still wouldnít explain why I only have 2 positions I can feel. Lol if I did have it in the wrong spot, that would mean that my gun is harder on the brass on normal than on adverse.

Iíll have to check that bolt along with everything else. The gun hasnít made it to my bench since getting home.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: rtp on May 09, 2018, 09:23:22 PM
Dang man, sounds like you had quite the time. :(  Really curious to see your pictures.  What ammo are you using? That's my first thought.  The MDR is really picky about certain kinds of ammo. Definitely doesn't like hot, or cheap ammo. Kind of an odd combo. :-\   I would be really strict in following the break in procedure as outlined.

Thatís one way of putting it!
Iíll try to make a point of getting them posted soon.
New Lake City M80.
I feel like I did a pretty good job of following the break in procedure, ran it on adverse till adverse seemed like it was causing problems. Switched it to normal, which doesnít seem to work at all on my Gun. And eventually switched to suppressed.

Oof.  I was able to 'live' with PPU Match repeatedly ripping the rims off. 
Was/am getting concerned that for some reason it also pukes on IMI Match ammo.
Now LC? 

I don't particularly believe we should be paying DT for that future adjustable gas plug - should be warranty service until it actually can shoot most/all ammo.... hoping this is a 'blip' but you have enough rounds w/issues to likely indicate otherwise. 
Is there the 'sleeve' inside your gas plug?


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: Articlion on May 09, 2018, 09:44:06 PM
well i am having the same issues as cabbot1 ( stuck cases ejection chute jams and mag release that almost takes two hands to operate . I took my mdr for its first range trip last week and the second round got stuck in the chamber. I went through about the same process trying 8 different kinds of ammo, 3 different types of magazines ( lancers, pmags and gi mags) different gas settings and lubing the gun after a couple hundred rounds .i continued to get stuck cases and ejection problems with the cute. I went through 1000 rounds on the first day figuring it just needed a little break in out of the 1000 rounds i had 30 stuck cases in the chamber and about 50 stuck half way in the ejection chute . i did find the rifle likes match ammo like federal or dt i had the least amount of stuck cases with them but i still had the problem.
 I finally gave up went through the rifle every thing looks good i cleaned it lubed it retorqued it made another trip to the range with federal gold metal match. first mag ran flawless then more stuck cases. it seems to me the timing is off i think if the gas block was an inch forward it would alleviate the problem or maybe the chamber tolerances are just too tight i have not measured the chamber size. I also notice the ejection system requires a particular amount of energy to operate correctly if the recoil energy varies it will cause cases to get stuck in the chute just like if you don't charge it with enough authority.  i have ran it a fair amount without the ejection chute which alleviates the cases that get stuck in the ejection system but obviously it dosnet affect the stuck cases in the chamber also leaving the chute off you have this gapping hole in the side of the riffle just waiting for something to get in their and make the rifle even more unreliable. .
 i don't think my rifle is a lemon i think the design is fundamentally flawed from bad timing, to a pressure sensitive ejection system, even small design elements like the gas valve location it looks easy to make it longer or have a window in the hand guard to adjust it. also the hand guard itself has held up fine but with the way it is mounted i can see that being easily broken due to the leverage that can be applied to its mounts by its design. The multi location ambi mag release seems to be an addition of complication that kind of functions ok well i wouldn't say ok ii will just say it functions. I will call dt about the stuck cases and see what they say but the above is my impression of the design and well the functionality so far sucks


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: CabbitOne on May 09, 2018, 09:58:26 PM
Dang man, sounds like you had quite the time. :(  Really curious to see your pictures.  What ammo are you using? That's my first thought.  The MDR is really picky about certain kinds of ammo. Definitely doesn't like hot, or cheap ammo. Kind of an odd combo. :-\   I would be really strict in following the break in procedure as outlined.

Thatís one way of putting it!
Iíll try to make a point of getting them posted soon.
New Lake City M80.
I feel like I did a pretty good job of following the break in procedure, ran it on adverse till adverse seemed like it was causing problems. Switched it to normal, which doesnít seem to work at all on my Gun. And eventually switched to suppressed.

Oof.  I was able to 'live' with PPU Match repeatedly ripping the rims off. 
Was/am getting concerned that for some reason it also pukes on IMI Match ammo.
Now LC? 

I don't particularly believe we should be paying DT for that future adjustable gas plug - should be warranty service until it actually can shoot most/all ammo.... hoping this is a 'blip' but you have enough rounds w/issues to likely indicate otherwise. 
Is there the 'sleeve' inside your gas plug?

If the guns were running fine or mostly fine without the more adjustable plug Iíd agree with paying for them. If the guns are broken without them, then yeah it ought to be a warranty service. All that said, I question if more/less gas will actually fix the issue. As I and others have said, I think the system might be flawed regarding timing. The entire process of extraction, cycling, and ejection is beginning too soon.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: CabbitOne on May 09, 2018, 10:00:12 PM
well i am having the same issues as cabbot1 ( stuck cases ejection chute jams and mag release that almost takes two hands to operate . I took my mdr for its first range trip last week and the second round got stuck in the chamber. I went through about the same process trying 8 different kinds of ammo, 3 different types of magazines ( lancers, pmags and gi mags) different gas settings and lubing the gun after a couple hundred rounds .i continued to get stuck cases and ejection problems with the cute. I went through 1000 rounds on the first day figuring it just needed a little break in out of the 1000 rounds i had 30 stuck cases in the chamber and about 50 stuck half way in the ejection chute . i did find the rifle likes match ammo like federal or dt i had the least amount of stuck cases with them but i still had the problem.
 I finally gave up went through the rifle every thing looks good i cleaned it lubed it retorqued it made another trip to the range with federal gold metal match. first mag ran flawless then more stuck cases. it seems to me the timing is off i think if the gas block was an inch forward it would alleviate the problem or maybe the chamber tolerances are just too tight i have not measured the chamber size. I also notice the ejection system requires a particular amount of energy to operate correctly if the recoil energy varies it will cause cases to get stuck in the chute just like if you don't charge it with enough authority.  i have ran it a fair amount without the ejection chute which alleviates the cases that get stuck in the ejection system but obviously it dosnet affect the stuck cases in the chamber also leaving the chute off you have this gapping hole in the side of the riffle just waiting for something to get in their and make the rifle even more unreliable. .
 i don't think my rifle is a lemon i think the design is fundamentally flawed from bad timing, to a pressure sensitive ejection system, even small design elements like the gas valve location it looks easy to make it longer or have a window in the hand guard to adjust it. also the hand guard itself has held up fine but with the way it is mounted i can see that being easily broken due to the leverage that can be applied to its mounts by its design. The multi location ambi mag release seems to be an addition of complication that kind of functions ok well i wouldn't say ok ii will just say it functions. I will call dt about the stuck cases and see what they say but the above is my impression of the design and well the functionality so far sucks


Jesus! at least Iím not alone in this.

Please share what happens when you contact them.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: Aussie E on May 09, 2018, 10:12:43 PM
So glad I traded mine for a LMT MWS. I had 3 stuck cases in two range trips and that was enough to decide to move it on.

AE


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: CabbitOne on May 10, 2018, 12:15:16 AM
So glad I traded mine for a LMT MWS. I had 3 stuck cases in two range trips and that was enough to decide to move it on.

AE

I was trying to decide today how long Iíll keep trying to get a working gun out of this. What I keep coming back to is there isnít another good option for a .308/6.5 bullpup. If I didnít want a bullpup, Iíd just use my SCAR. Maybe if the Tavor7 is ever released and has good reviews, I might jump ship. Still doesnít scratch the itch of a 10Ē barrel .300 BLK bullpup... but neither does the MDR for the foreseeable future!


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: Blackandwhiteknight on May 10, 2018, 12:23:40 AM
well i am having the same issues as cabbot1 ( stuck cases ejection chute jams and mag release that almost takes two hands to operate . I took my mdr for its first range trip last week and the second round got stuck in the chamber. I went through about the same process trying 8 different kinds of ammo, 3 different types of magazines ( lancers, pmags and gi mags) different gas settings and lubing the gun after a couple hundred rounds .i continued to get stuck cases and ejection problems with the cute. I went through 1000 rounds on the first day figuring it just needed a little break in out of the 1000 rounds i had 30 stuck cases in the chamber and about 50 stuck half way in the ejection chute . i did find the rifle likes match ammo like federal or dt i had the least amount of stuck cases with them but i still had the problem.
 I finally gave up went through the rifle every thing looks good i cleaned it lubed it retorqued it made another trip to the range with federal gold metal match. first mag ran flawless then more stuck cases. it seems to me the timing is off i think if the gas block was an inch forward it would alleviate the problem or maybe the chamber tolerances are just too tight i have not measured the chamber size. I also notice the ejection system requires a particular amount of energy to operate correctly if the recoil energy varies it will cause cases to get stuck in the chute just like if you don't charge it with enough authority.  i have ran it a fair amount without the ejection chute which alleviates the cases that get stuck in the ejection system but obviously it dosnet affect the stuck cases in the chamber also leaving the chute off you have this gapping hole in the side of the riffle just waiting for something to get in their and make the rifle even more unreliable. .
 i don't think my rifle is a lemon i think the design is fundamentally flawed from bad timing, to a pressure sensitive ejection system, even small design elements like the gas valve location it looks easy to make it longer or have a window in the hand guard to adjust it. also the hand guard itself has held up fine but with the way it is mounted i can see that being easily broken due to the leverage that can be applied to its mounts by its design. The multi location ambi mag release seems to be an addition of complication that kind of functions ok well i wouldn't say ok ii will just say it functions. I will call dt about the stuck cases and see what they say but the above is my impression of the design and well the functionality so far sucks


 You run 1K rounds through it in one day or you add too many zeros?  :o Funny that you mention the tight chamber.  I think the chamber dwell time is too short, but there may be something to that tight chamber theory.  Ive put over like 700 rounds of M80 through this rifle with no more than a little tweaking of the rims on adverse. Ran it hot(about 4 mags rapid fire back to back)and suddenly I get this massive high pressure spike that destroyed that case I pictured.  I might have just got a bad batch of ammo but that is way over pressured.  Looks like fouling, plus heat, equals bad things.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: Articlion on May 10, 2018, 10:21:10 AM
Well I brought 2k with me but I gave up out of frustration


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: thehun on May 10, 2018, 11:19:58 AM
So glad I traded mine for a LMT MWS. I had 3 stuck cases in two range trips and that was enough to decide to move it on.

AE

LOL that is what I did...receiving my LMT MWS 308 tomorrow...I was hoping the MDR will have better results but the majority of reports are negative at this point and the rifle is still in beta phase...so I decided to go a different with my resources on 308 platform (LMT)...I am still eyeing the .223 variant


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: CabbitOne on May 11, 2018, 02:57:39 PM
*updated* (https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?topic=13025.msg139730#msg139730) pictures have finally been added, don't know when I'll get around to cleaning up the text
Also, I managed to not notate everywhere I took a picture. So if something looks out of place, it very well could be. Whoops.
I'm about to sit down now and go over the gun.



Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: CabbitOne on May 11, 2018, 04:09:01 PM
If I missed anyones question, sorry. If you're still wanting to know please ask again.

*snip*As for the gas regulator.  Not trying to be a smart ass but are you following the manual for the placement of the detents? Detent is were the arrow is not the bottom. *snip*

*snip*
The last thing I noticed looking at your pictures is that in the last one you posted of the ejection chute it looks like the bottom torx bolt is backing out.  Could be the lighting but I don't think you shouldn't be seeing a shine on the top of the bolt head.  If that is backing out it means the barrel trunion is not torqued or secured properly. If that is not tight you could be having all kinds of issues. *snip*
Just checked my gas regulator, sure seems like I had it in the right position. On that note, playing around with it (spinning it and what not), I suddenly have a (felt) third position. Wondering if there was carbon or something on the back side preventing the detent from locking it in place. I'll have to check when the gun gets hot again that I don't have something else going on.

Checked all of the torx bolts on the gun. They all seemed snug and none were protruding any worse than the others. Only checked to 30 in/lb, because I didn't want to start tightening things further than they ought to be.

*snip*
Is there the 'sleeve' inside your gas plug?
Sure seems to be sleeved.
(https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20890;image) (https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=20889;image)


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: thehun on May 11, 2018, 04:31:02 PM
Wondering why DT put gas rings on the gas plug? First time I ever saw that on a piston gun...usually those gas rings are on the piston side...does the piston also has gas rings?



Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: JesseJames38 on May 11, 2018, 05:06:21 PM
Yes the piston side also has a gas ring.    Its not your typical ar type gas rings.   This is a one peice ring that appears to be wraped around e or 4 times it seems.  At least that is how i remember it when i had mine appart

Jesse


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: newguy2k3 on May 11, 2018, 10:50:00 PM
I'm pretty certain that the original gas plug that I can't seem to find at present didn't have rings. The replacement does. There is a pretty good carbon mark on the bottom of my scope that I believe is from the original plug.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: thehun on May 11, 2018, 11:57:13 PM
I honestly do not see a reason why there needs to be gas rings on the gas plug...on the gas piston head...yes...it needs it...gas plug... :anyone? Maybe some of the issues are that the system is not allowing excess gas to vent off properly.

For example...my SCAR has a small hole in the gas plug up front just for that reason...the BREN 805 has several bleed-offs...AK does as well...Sig 55X series does as well...looking at this...the MDRs gas system does not have a excess bleed off capability... :anyone?


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: Blackandwhiteknight on May 12, 2018, 12:33:56 AM
The MDR has four gas bleed offs, two on the sides and one top and bottom of the piston cup.  At the rearward point of travel the piston allows the excess to vent out these holes.  The side vents push gas out the open slots of the receiver.  The top hole pushes it right into bottom of the receiver top rail, which incidentally may be causing some of the heat issues(really not keen on this).  The bottom vent dumps it down onto the top of the barrel.  The rings on the gas plug for my rifle don't do a great job of sealing it off. You can see the side vent in the first window of the receiver.

(https://s19.postimg.cc/9ow3gw3lf/KIMG0494.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/4q8l2czsf/)


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: Articlion on May 12, 2018, 01:08:19 AM
this


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: thehun on May 12, 2018, 12:10:30 PM
Good deal...now knowing it has several bleed offs...then why use gas rings still on the plug...I am still baffled by that...


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: Articlion on May 12, 2018, 04:12:01 PM
The gas rings are probably a bandaid they probably had cycling issues due to the ejection mechanism and the gas block location and thought too much gas was leaking out of the front of the plug so they put some rings on it in an attempt to seal it up and get a precise amount of gas to make it cycle properly


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: thehun on May 12, 2018, 09:32:50 PM
That gas system has another band aid...the sleeved gas plug...


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: Sdevante on May 12, 2018, 10:16:43 PM
Also having similar problems (posted in a separate thread). Hoping anyone who has contacted DT about this can update us on what they say.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: CabbitOne on May 13, 2018, 12:03:15 AM
Also having similar problems (posted in a separate thread). Hoping anyone who has contacted DT about this can update us on what they say.

Mine is on its way back to DT on Monday. Iíll certainly post here what happens. Likely Iíll revise the range report post to include that info.
Sadly, I wonít have another opportunity to go shoot my MDR this month. Assuming itís back by then, I might get lucky and go out on the 1st.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: thehun on May 13, 2018, 09:17:12 AM
DT does have a great service department so you should see it back soon.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: dmitry on May 24, 2018, 07:54:15 PM
What's happened with the interchangeable barrels (one of the main selling points)?


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: JesseJames38 on May 24, 2018, 08:05:56 PM
You can buy a .308 and 6.5 creedmore from es tactical. 


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: CabbitOne on May 30, 2018, 06:44:46 PM
DT does have a great service department so you should see it back soon.

So I emailed DT on the 24th, here is the response I received;

"It has been received, and we are diagnosing it now. Yours is showing some slightly different symptoms, so I would like to make sure we get to the root cause."


Sounds... not good?


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: Articlion on May 30, 2018, 08:02:16 PM
DT does have a great service department so you should see it back soon.

So I emailed DT on the 24th, here is the response I received;

"It has been received, and we are diagnosing it now. Yours is showing some slightly different symptoms, so I would like to make sure we get to the root cause."


Sounds... not good?

yeah not so sure how good the warranty department is turning out to be they have had mine for two weeks thats longer than i have had it in my possession supposably they are blaming the issues on the barrel but since dt docent make anything in house they don't have any to spare they are filling preorders instead of pulling me a barrel off the line and getting me a rifle that i paid for. who knows how long till they get all the preorders cought up and can spare me a barrel i hope you don't need one too


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: Articlion on May 30, 2018, 08:50:50 PM
From dt no need to worry about our non functioning rifles I went strait to the ceo and this is what I got ďWe spent several weeks testing samples of the final production guns to ensure there were no reliability or endurance problems and we are happy to report they are flawless!Ē :LOL :LOL :LOL :LOL :LOL


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: CabbitOne on May 30, 2018, 09:41:38 PM
DT does have a great service department so you should see it back soon.

So I emailed DT on the 24th, here is the response I received;

"It has been received, and we are diagnosing it now. Yours is showing some slightly different symptoms, so I would like to make sure we get to the root cause."


Sounds... not good?

yeah not so sure how good the warranty department is turning out to be they have had mine for two weeks thats longer than i have had it in my possession supposably they are blaming the issues on the barrel but since dt docent make anything in house they don't have any to spare they are filling preorders instead of pulling me a barrel off the line and getting me a rifle that i paid for. who knows how long till they get all the preorders cought up and can spare me a barrel i hope you don't need one too

What was wrong with your barrel?


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: CabbitOne on May 30, 2018, 09:45:22 PM
From dt no need to worry about our non functioning rifles I went strait to the ceo and this is what I got ďWe spent several weeks testing samples of the final production guns to ensure there were no reliability or endurance problems and we are happy to report they are flawless!Ē :LOL :LOL :LOL :LOL :LOL

Context?


Also, "several" isn't a good quantifier. Several weeks could be four, it might be forty. Also it doesn't specify how much testing occurred over those several weeks. Was it one rifle for five minutes each week? Or fifty rifles for twenty four hours a day each week?


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: rtp on May 30, 2018, 09:46:31 PM
From dt no need to worry about our non functioning rifles I went strait to the ceo and this is what I got ďWe spent several weeks testing samples of the final production guns to ensure there were no reliability or endurance problems and we are happy to report they are flawless!Ē :LOL :LOL :LOL :LOL :LOL

You forgot the bit where they only tested PMags and the only tester had trained fingers of steel and loved the mag release. Meh.

New gas plug showed up today.  Getting more and more disenchanted at the moment, but may be able to make it to go attempt to shoot again this weekend.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: Articlion on May 30, 2018, 10:07:22 PM
DT does have a great service department so you should see it back soon.

So I emailed DT on the 24th, here is the response I received;

"It has been received, and we are diagnosing it now. Yours is showing some slightly different symptoms, so I would like to make sure we get to the root cause." either way it doesn't seem to be good for anything but shaving brass and holding onto cases really well


Sounds... not good?

yeah not so sure how good the warranty department is turning out to be they have had mine for two weeks thats longer than i have had it in my possession supposably they are blaming the issues on the barrel but since dt docent make anything in house they don't have any to spare they are filling preorders instead of pulling me a barrel off the line and getting me a rifle that i paid for. who knows how long till they get all the preorders cought up and can spare me a barrel i hope you don't need one too

What was wrong with your barrel?
Not sure they would not elaborate I assume the chamber is the wrong size, crooked or fouled with mim parts


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: thehun on May 30, 2018, 11:12:27 PM
I am just now going to keep eating  :popcorn :popcorn :popcorn :popcorn ....


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: CabbitOne on May 31, 2018, 10:56:39 AM
DT does have a great service department so you should see it back soon.

So I emailed DT on the 24th, here is the response I received;

"It has been received, and we are diagnosing it now. Yours is showing some slightly different symptoms, so I would like to make sure we get to the root cause." either way it doesn't seem to be good for anything but shaving brass and holding onto cases really well


Sounds... not good?

yeah not so sure how good the warranty department is turning out to be they have had mine for two weeks thats longer than i have had it in my possession supposably they are blaming the issues on the barrel but since dt docent make anything in house they don't have any to spare they are filling preorders instead of pulling me a barrel off the line and getting me a rifle that i paid for. who knows how long till they get all the preorders cought up and can spare me a barrel i hope you don't need one too

What was wrong with your barrel?
Not sure they would not elaborate I assume the chamber is the wrong size, crooked or fouled with mim parts

Jesus....



Also an update from DT today regarding my rifle;

"...your rifle and a few others have been exhibiting some issues that are out of the ordinary. We are currently doing some very in depth testing of components to see what is causing the issue, so that we can both fix your rifle, and keep it from happening again to other rifles. I donít have a lot of information at the moment, but I should have some soon. Im hoping we will have an easy fix or part replacement that will correct the problem with your rifle. And of course, I will let you know as soon as we do."

I hope and pray the part about keeping it from reoccurring is true. I want so badly for DT to right this ship. The platform has so much potential but seems to have poor execution.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: Articlion on May 31, 2018, 11:54:55 AM
Not so sure about all this they should be able to break down the rifle clean it and qc it to find the out of tolerance part swap it out and test the rifle in a couple hours. My other thought is all the parts are in spec and they canít figure out why it wonít work which would be bad news if of the parts are in tolerance. Dt should change their final qc check and test fire 1 full mag before shipping their product until they get their issues resolved


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: CabbitOne on May 31, 2018, 02:54:55 PM
Not so sure about all this they should be able to break down the rifle clean it and qc it to find the out of tolerance part swap it out and test the rifle in a couple hours. My other thought is all the parts are in spec and they canít figure out why it wonít work which would be bad news if of the parts are in tolerance. Dt should change their final qc check and test fire 1 full mag before shipping their product until they get their issues resolved

My fear is that all the parts are in spec, but the tolerances are not tight enough per spec and the gun doesn't work as a result. So, then they have to mix and match parts till they produce a working gun. Heck, might not even be a tolerance issue, the parts might just not be appropriately dimensioned from the get go.
Alternatively, a huge quantity of their parts may be out of spec and again they play the mix and match game until something works.

Regardless, from an outsiders perspective it seems like DT needs to over-hall their entire process. Drawings, purchasing, acceptance, inventory, production, inspecting & testing, and distribution. If they have a QMS, it doesn't seem to be working. If they don't have a QMS, they should institute one.

Starting to remind me of the horror stories people told of dealing with Microtech and the MSAR.

If everything is working as it should be their production guys ought to be getting a bucket of parts and being told to build a rifle. Or, I guess pulling the parts themselves. Those parts should all work together regardless of who pulled them or what parts they're being used with. That rifle out go over to a QC person(s) who tests it form and function. Not just shooting a couple rounds through it. If something doesn't work an investigation should be performed to determine the failure point. It should then be addressed and not reoccur.
Somewhere in their process(es) they have failure(s). Either its managerial failure and pushing crap through the pipeline, QC not identifying and correcting failures, production actively breaking s***, and/or purchasing/design not designing and acquiring appropriate materials. Their issue with shipping the wrong rifle out to me makes me think there are multiple (major?) orgizational issues they're dealing with.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: rtp on May 31, 2018, 08:05:04 PM
You can buy a .308 and 6.5 creedmore from es tactical. 

Were the ES tactical not so (relatively) expensive, AND I was confident in a barrel and gas block/piston solving ALL issues - I'd be tempted to actually purchase both - the 18"-20" .308 many of us wanted from DT and the 6.5C.

As it is, has to remain a waiting game for me at the moment still (to see if reliability is eventually there, or not).


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: CabbitOne on May 31, 2018, 09:21:17 PM
You can buy a .308 and 6.5 creedmore from es tactical. 

Were the ES tactical not so (relatively) expensive, AND I was confident in a barrel and gas block/piston solving ALL issues - I'd be tempted to actually purchase both - the 18"-20" .308 many of us wanted from DT and the 6.5C.

As it is, has to remain a waiting game for me at the moment still (to see if reliability is eventually there, or not).


I'm pretty much of the same mindset. If I could purchase the 6.5 barrel from them and it solve all my problems, I'd just do that and call it a day.
With all the issues I've experienced with the rifle and the (often worse) issues others have, I cannot even begin to think of this as a defensive tool. So, at best, its a hunting rifle for me.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: mityno1 on May 31, 2018, 10:40:47 PM

I'm pretty much of the same mindset. If I could purchase the 6.5 barrel from them and it solve all my problems, I'd just do that and call it a day.
With all the issues I've experienced with the rifle and the (often worse) issues others have, I cannot even begin to think of this as a defensive tool. So, at best, its a hunting rifle for me.

Ditto. In fact I am contemplating waiting until I can just buy the MDR in 6.5 Creedmoor and leave it a dedicated 6.5 semi-auto/semi-precision rifle.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: Blackandwhiteknight on May 31, 2018, 11:03:52 PM
Pretty much in the same frame of mind. All the really big issues I've seen in mine should be fixable in the barrel and gas system.  I would think the ES tactical setup would work well, seeing as everything I've seen from them looks squared away.  The fact that the custom ported the gas block/ plug shows they know what's up with the MDR.  The only reason I am keeping the MDR at this point is the .223 conversion that's on pre-order.  Again whole new barrel, gas system, and caliber. Should be much better. Just using the .308 to break things in, and troubleshoot at this point. If things work out I think a 18" .308 ES tactical barrel is in the cards down the line.  I'm sure its much better than the DT one.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: GoShort on May 31, 2018, 11:13:45 PM
I have a 20" DMR 6.5CM barrel on order from ES. I will post detailed pics when i get it in a few weeks

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk



Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: wagrn on May 31, 2018, 11:22:41 PM
Anyone run steel through there MRS?  Curious if the harder case is still having the same extraction issues.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: Blackandwhiteknight on May 31, 2018, 11:30:30 PM
I have a 20" DMR 6.5CM barrel on order from ES. I will post detailed pics when i get it in a few weeks

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk



Would be really interested in the dimensions of the gas plug if you have some calipers.  Internal size of the plug and the ports.  Curious if theirs is the same as DT's?


Title: Re: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: GoShort on May 31, 2018, 11:44:51 PM
I have a 20" DMR 6.5CM barrel on order from ES. I will post detailed pics when i get it in a few weeks

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk



Would be really interested in the dimensions of the gas plug if you have some calipers.  Internal size of the plug and the ports.  Curious if theirs is the same as DT's?
I do have a caliber and will add those numbers in the post.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk



Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: ES Tactical on June 01, 2018, 12:05:26 AM
I can answer that question pretty easily. I'm going to be switching to the factory 6 position valve as they are available. They cover the range of the valve I have been using, plus a little more. Ive had mine choked down pretty good for the 6.5 Creedmoor. Other critical dimensions are the same.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk



Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: CabbitOne on June 01, 2018, 12:16:01 AM
I can answer that question pretty easily. I'm going to be switching to the factory 6 position valve as they are available. They cover the range of the valve I have been using, plus a little more. Ive had mine choked down pretty good for the 6.5 Creedmoor. Other critical dimensions are the same.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Forgive me if this has already been asked of you in another thread. But, could you let us know the dimensional differences between yours and DTís .308 barrels? Not looking, necessarily, for numerical differences, just what is different. (What is your secret sauce?) Also, which parts are factory and which are yíall producing?
Wondering if your barrels would fix some/most of my problems... If so, Iíll order one when DT eventually sends me my rifle back.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: Blackandwhiteknight on June 01, 2018, 12:17:12 AM
I can answer that question pretty easily. I'm going to be switching to the factory 6 position valve as they are available. They cover the range of the valve I have been using, plus a little more. Ive had mine choked down pretty good for the 6.5 Creedmoor. Other critical dimensions are the same.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk



Thanks for responding. Looks like you guys make some great stuff.  There has been quite the discussion about the chamber dwell time in the MDR as it relates to the torn case rims.  Do you feel the gas piston chamber needs more volume to increase the dwell time, or is lowering the port size enough?  Also curious your thoughts on the gas ring setup for the plug.  I see the SCAR doesn't have them but the fit seems much tighter?  I'm getting torn rims when the gun is dirty, but not when it is clean.  I'm getting the feeling that the fouling is sealing the gap around the gas plug rings and upping the pressure. Still have the stock plug. Thanks for supporting the MDR.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: rtp on June 01, 2018, 12:33:25 AM
Anyone run steel through there MRS?  Curious if the harder case is still having the same extraction issues.

I've shot Hornady steel match through it without issue, pmc in a few variants, Malaysian 80s surplus ball, Outback 168 SMK, fgmm 175....without issue so far.  PPU Match and IMI Match flat out count shoot more than 1-2 rds without a stuck csee/ripped rim.

As far as heating up causing issues...not sure. I likely did the most rapid fire with the surplus ball ammo without issue, which was AFTER seeing issues with the IMI and PPU. I'm nearly out of my 'random factory ammo' collection I'd picked up for the MDR initial testing, but depending on how the next outing goes with the new gas plug, may look at present and post firing case dimensions vs the PPU and IMI Match to see if anything of interest is seen, e.g. tighter in chamber.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: rtp on June 01, 2018, 12:35:08 AM
I can answer that question pretty easily. I'm going to be switching to the factory 6 position valve as they are available. They cover the range of the valve I have been using, plus a little more. Ive had mine choked down pretty good for the 6.5 Creedmoor. Other critical dimensions are the same.

Thanks for this.
Can you say if your .308 barrel chambers are cut to your specs or to DT'S?


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: Masamuneccc on June 03, 2018, 10:19:45 PM
I just got my MDR and all day i was having rounds stuck like in all your pics. Also having a hard time dropping mags out. Upon dissassembling i found there is a lin missing in my mdr for the mag release. Anyone else have this issue?


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: JesseJames38 on June 03, 2018, 10:39:14 PM
Yeah, there are a few people who reported this problem with the pin walking out of the bar to the counter balance.  Seems everyone found there's in the bottom of the receiver.

Just wondering, what kind of ammunition are you using?

Jesse


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: Blackandwhiteknight on June 04, 2018, 11:31:17 AM
Yeah, there are a few people who reported this problem with the pin walking out of the bar to the counter balance.  Seems everyone found there's in the bottom of the receiver.

Just wondering, what kind of ammunition are you using?

Jesse

See this thread I posted for info.

http://bullpupforum.com/index.php?topic=12968.0 (http://bullpupforum.com/index.php?topic=12968.0)


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: Masamuneccc on June 05, 2018, 08:50:53 AM
@jessejame , i was using pmc bronze .308 win. I never saw the pin at all. As of now the guys at Desert Tech are extreamly helpful.  Love this rifle shoots like a dream.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: wagrn on June 06, 2018, 02:03:57 PM
Has anyone tried break in in stages? I was thinking about running the first 50-75 on adverse with the ejection cover off. My thinking was to allow wear on the extractor and trigger group first with one less obstacle then the next 75 with the cover, re evaluate any change then finish the last 50 or so, then try again in normal. Any thoughts o ideas?


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: Blackandwhiteknight on June 06, 2018, 03:27:55 PM
Has anyone tried break in in stages? I was thinking about running the first 50-75 on adverse with the ejection cover off. My thinking was to allow wear on the extractor and trigger group first with one less obstacle then the next 75 with the cover, re evaluate any change then finish the last 50 or so, then try again in normal. Any thoughts o ideas?

Really shouldn't need to. This is pretty good advice.

http://bullpupforum.com/index.php?topic=13079.0 (http://bullpupforum.com/index.php?topic=13079.0 >:()


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: CabbitOne on June 07, 2018, 11:45:48 AM
Emailed DT at 0800 today (06/07/18), looking for some kind of update. It has now been three weeks that they've had my rifle. Far longer than I have had it.

For anyone just now joining this topic, I highly recommend you read what has transpired thus far in the first post (https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?topic=13025.msg139175#msg139175) and subsequent range report (https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?topic=13025.msg139730#msg139730). TLDR version; the rifle has already been back to DT once and still isn't working. Also shipping error. Rifle completed 220 rounds and is no closer to being functional.

Also, feel like I should change the name of the thread... considering I didn't have to do anything to break the rifle.... Maybe, "Lets See If I Can Fix It (My MDR)" ?


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: thehun on June 07, 2018, 12:31:17 PM
Maybe maybe...yours is the guinea pig for a worthy update.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: CabbitOne on June 08, 2018, 05:27:48 PM
Received a response yesterday (06/07/16);

Quote from: DT Warranty Service
Yes, I have addressed almost all the issues with your rifle. It runs great on the XM80 from American Eagle, I also have tried many others; Hornady match, PPU match, PPUxm80, and PMC Bronze. As far as ammo is concerned, I would stick to the better ones, it really liked the AE XM80, and PMC Bronze. I would avoid CBC, ZQi, and the like, not only have I heard of poor performance from customers, but I have seen it here as well. The gun runs fine on Normal, I have attached a video link so you can see for yourself:  *snip*

No word on what was actually done to the rifle, though I'm still emailing back and forth. Just sent an email today (06/08/16) asking when I might receive the rifle back.
I will say, in spite of all the trouble I've had with the rifle. I'm happy with DT's customer service. If I'd had these sort of issues and their CS was horrible.... well I don't even want to imagine it.

Also, I asked about the 6 position gas regulator in relation to my specific rifle. The general consensus is it would not improve current performance. I guess I'll see what happens when I get the rifle back and (assuming it works) start trying other loads and suppression.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: kfeltenberger on June 08, 2018, 06:29:20 PM
Received a response yesterday (06/07/16);

Quote from: DT Warranty Service
Yes, I have addressed almost all the issues with your rifle. It runs great on the XM80 from American Eagle, I also have tried many others; Hornady match, PPU match, PPUxm80, and PMC Bronze. As far as ammo is concerned, I would stick to the better ones, it really liked the AE XM80, and PMC Bronze. I would avoid CBC, ZQi, and the like, not only have I heard of poor performance from customers, but I have seen it here as well. The gun runs fine on Normal, I have attached a video link so you can see for yourself:  *snip*

No word on what was actually done to the rifle, though I'm still emailing back and forth. Just sent an email today (06/08/16) asking when I might receive the rifle back.
I will say, in spite of all the trouble I've had with the rifle. I'm happy with DT's customer service. If I'd had these sort of issues and their CS was horrible.... well I don't even want to imagine it.

Also, I asked about the 6 position gas regulator in relation to my specific rifle. The general consensus is it would not improve current performance. I guess I'll see what happens when I get the rifle back and (assuming it works) start trying other loads and suppression.

I want to know more specifics other than "I've heard..." anecdotes on why it won't work with ZQi M80...given that it is NATO certified and to NATO spec.  Unless the rifle really won't work with 7.62x51 and needs a commercial grade .308 loading... If so, this will be extremely disappointing and a failure on DT's part.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: CabbitOne on June 08, 2018, 07:59:30 PM
Received a response yesterday (06/07/16);

Quote from: DT Warranty Service
Yes, I have addressed almost all the issues with your rifle. It runs great on the XM80 from American Eagle, I also have tried many others; Hornady match, PPU match, PPUxm80, and PMC Bronze. As far as ammo is concerned, I would stick to the better ones, it really liked the AE XM80, and PMC Bronze. I would avoid CBC, ZQi, and the like, not only have I heard of poor performance from customers, but I have seen it here as well. The gun runs fine on Normal, I have attached a video link so you can see for yourself:  *snip*

No word on what was actually done to the rifle, though I'm still emailing back and forth. Just sent an email today (06/08/16) asking when I might receive the rifle back.
I will say, in spite of all the trouble I've had with the rifle. I'm happy with DT's customer service. If I'd had these sort of issues and their CS was horrible.... well I don't even want to imagine it.

Also, I asked about the 6 position gas regulator in relation to my specific rifle. The general consensus is it would not improve current performance. I guess I'll see what happens when I get the rifle back and (assuming it works) start trying other loads and suppression.

I want to know more specifics other than "I've heard..." anecdotes on why it won't work with ZQi M80...given that it is NATO certified and to NATO spec.  Unless the rifle really won't work with 7.62x51 and needs a commercial grade .308 loading... If so, this will be extremely disappointing and a failure on DT's part.

I'll preface this by saying I don't regularly shoot 7.62 or .308, nor am I a reloader.

Wondering if as kfeltenberger pondered that the system is designed for .308 specifically. And/or the chamber is perhaps spec'd to .308 and is at the extreme end of the tolerance, not giving it the extra "give" to accommodate many different loadings. Perhaps this could contribute to the success people have reported with the ES Tactical barrels?

Heck, if the chamber is pushing one direction .308 or 7.62 and is at the extreme end and the gas system was for the other and the extreme end of that, it could be compounding the issue.

That is not even taking into account parts that may be out of spec or whose spec may have been too loose to begin win.

Couple all of this with, none of us know which loads the system was ever tested with and/or designed for.

As far as the ZQI stuff goes, I was of the understanding it was NATO spec as well. But again, I don't shoot .308/7.62 regularly. Nor have I ever purchased ZQI.

I'm very curious/excited to get my rifle back. I badly want it to work, to the point I'm ready to get a ES Tactical barrel if it fixes any issues I may still be having. Heck, I intend on getting one so long as the rest of the rifle is working...


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: thehun on June 09, 2018, 12:04:37 AM
So you would waste $850 bucks on top of $2500 lemon instead of demanding DT to give you a working rifle that you paid for?...its your money but to me that senseless.

If your MDR does not perform after you receive it from DT's warranty service...I would keep sending it back...I would keep sending it back until A) your rifle performs or B) they buy it back and you move on. No platform is worth an extra $850 bucks on a potential fix just to see if it would work.

I keep saying that the MDR is built around their match ammo (but I think there are other issues other than the chamber and gas tuning)...why don't you instead of spending $850 bucks on something that is not really proven either...gamble on DT Match Ammo...say $175 worth...if it functions flawlessly...there is your answer...if it doesn't...well that just sucks even more that the MDR would choke on their very own ammo.




Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: CabbitOne on June 09, 2018, 01:15:48 AM
So you would waste $850 bucks on top of $2500 lemon instead of demanding DT to give you a working rifle that you paid for?...its your money but to me that senseless.

If your MDR does not perform after you receive it from DT's warranty service...I would keep sending it back...I would keep sending it back until A) your rifle performs or B) they buy it back and you move on. No platform is worth an extra $850 bucks on a potential fix just to see if it would work.

I keep saying that the MDR is built around their match ammo (but I think there are other issues other than the chamber and gas tuning)...why don't you instead of spending $850 bucks on something that is not really proven either...gamble on DT Match Ammo...say $175 worth...if it functions flawlessly...there is your answer...if it doesn't...well that just sucks even more that the MDR would choke on their very own ammo.




I intend on continuing to send it back until itís working correctly. I was more thinking if the new barrel would fix my (hopefully nonexistent) problems itís a boon. Itís giving me a more useful caliber and allowing me to actually use the thing between trips back to its homeland.

I agree though, DT should make the situation right.

While Iíd be interested to see if the rifle would work with their ammo, doesnít really matter one way or the other. Thatís about as useful to me as saying it works with a laser boresight (sarcasm). Iíd really be curious to know what differences their match ammo might possess compared to other major manufacturerís match ammo. Especially if like you postulate, the MDR is built for that fuel and might prove a salve for these lemony rifles.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: mityno1 on June 09, 2018, 01:42:28 AM
Differences in ammo:

The powder charge being loaded light or hot and the projectile weight will make a difference in how any semi-auto runs.

Overall cartridge length and projectile ogive (shape of the bullet's nose cone) are two primary differences that could make a big difference dealing with unforgiving feed ramps from one brand of ammo or handload recipe to the next.  

The hardness or softness of the brass shell casing could make a big difference in an unforgiving chamber from one brand of brass to the next.

Basic gunsmithing options to consider:

Reaming the chamber to 7.62x51 (or whatever) might help with a tight chamber but will do nothing for a loose chamber.

Blueprinting and polishing the feed ramps will help any semi-auto feed more reliably. Polishing the feed ramps too much and causing them to go out of tolerance will do the opposite.



Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: thehun on June 09, 2018, 09:50:58 AM
So you would waste $850 bucks on top of $2500 lemon instead of demanding DT to give you a working rifle that you paid for?...its your money but to me that senseless.

If your MDR does not perform after you receive it from DT's warranty service...I would keep sending it back...I would keep sending it back until A) your rifle performs or B) they buy it back and you move on. No platform is worth an extra $850 bucks on a potential fix just to see if it would work.

I keep saying that the MDR is built around their match ammo (but I think there are other issues other than the chamber and gas tuning)...why don't you instead of spending $850 bucks on something that is not really proven either...gamble on DT Match Ammo...say $175 worth...if it functions flawlessly...there is your answer...if it doesn't...well that just sucks even more that the MDR would choke on their very own ammo.




I intend on continuing to send it back until itís working correctly. I was more thinking if the new barrel would fix my (hopefully nonexistent) problems itís a boon. Itís giving me a more useful caliber and allowing me to actually use the thing between trips back to its homeland.

I agree though, DT should make the situation right.

While Iíd be interested to see if the rifle would work with their ammo, doesnít really matter one way or the other. Thatís about as useful to me as saying it works with a laser boresight (sarcasm). Iíd really be curious to know what differences their match ammo might possess compared to other major manufacturerís match ammo. Especially if like you postulate, the MDR is built for that fuel and might prove a salve for these lemony rifles.

I think there are some other tolerance issues that are causing problems in the MDR not just the chamber and gas...but since some owners like to experiment...they should start and see how their MDR runs on DT's ammo...$29/20rd is not cheap...but at this point spending $150 to try and see if it chokes would almost be worth it...plus...if it does not run with DT's ammo...I think you have a much better case to DT that your rifle is screwy.

When you have a private label match ammo, like what DT has, its specs can vary from commercial rounds...so if the chamber is spec'd form that round...it might cause issues on others...its just hypothesis that I do not think it has been tried.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: coldboremiracle on June 11, 2018, 04:23:40 PM
When you have a private label match ammo, like what DT has, its specs can vary from commercial rounds...so if the chamber is spec'd form that round...it might cause issues on others...its just hypothesis that I do not think it has been tried.
Interesting hypothesis, but only that.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: kfeltenberger on June 11, 2018, 04:38:50 PM
When you have a private label match ammo, like what DT has, its specs can vary from commercial rounds...so if the chamber is spec'd form that round...it might cause issues on others...its just hypothesis that I do not think it has been tried.
Interesting hypothesis, but only that.

What are the specific chamber specs?


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: Blackandwhiteknight on June 11, 2018, 05:03:24 PM
When you have a private label match ammo, like what DT has, its specs can vary from commercial rounds...so if the chamber is spec'd form that round...it might cause issues on others...its just hypothesis that I do not think it has been tried.
Interesting hypothesis, but only that.

Not helping your case Coldbore.  Instead of stooping to his level how about posting information in a professional manner, that well represents your company.  "Here's exactly what the specs are, the MDR was designed to function with X ammunition but not Y". "Thank you for your interest in Desert Tech products".

 The Desert Tech brand is in a lot of trouble.  Malfunctioning rifles make for very bad word of mouth reputation.  A lot of your loyal pre-order customers who gave $2500 loans years in advance, and received non-functioning rifles are pissed.

  People can accept setbacks, but poor treatment of your customers is going to sink your ship. Be transparent, be honest.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: Articlion on June 11, 2018, 05:16:28 PM
well i could test this out for you i have about 100 rounds of dt ammo but my jammomatic oops meant mdr ran so poorly the week that i did have it i did not want to wast it until the rifle would at least run a mag without jamming. unfortunetly i got moved to the back of the waitlist line  because dt refueses to pull parts from production guns to repair nonfunctioning rifles they already sent out and of course spare parts for it are unavailable.  I would say it will be two moar weeks till i get mine back but i think its more like two moar years when the warranty is up


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: thehun on June 11, 2018, 07:51:14 PM
When you have a private label match ammo, like what DT has, its specs can vary from commercial rounds...so if the chamber is spec'd form that round...it might cause issues on others...its just hypothesis that I do not think it has been tried.
Interesting hypothesis, but only that.

I thought you weren't an engineer ;) So what are the chamber specs...because its not really consistent from what has been reported...and it has been suspect from end user feedback on the potentially issues surrounding reliability. Since my theory is just a hypothesis and you confirmed that is all it is, is DT match ammo really just an overprice private label retail match ammo? I assumed the way you guys market the round...it is specific to DT...hence why...it can vary in areas.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: cjgemm on June 11, 2018, 08:12:15 PM
When you have a private label match ammo, like what DT has, its specs can vary from commercial rounds...so if the chamber is spec'd form that round...it might cause issues on others...its just hypothesis that I do not think it has been tried.
Interesting hypothesis, but only that.

I thought you weren't an engineer ;) So what are the chamber specs...because its not really consistent from what has been reported...and it has been suspect from end user feedback on the potentially issues surrounding reliability. Since my theory is just a hypothesis and you confirmed that is all it is, is DT match ammo really just an overprice private label retail match ammo? I assumed the way you guys market the round...it is specific to DT...hence why...it can vary in areas.

I'm starting to wonder if you even shoot...


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: thehun on June 11, 2018, 08:31:21 PM
Probably way more than you. But please tell me how that post makes you think I donít shoot.

You obviously donít if you think that a custom match ammo canít vary outside of normal specs when it comes to aspects including OAL, powder, burn, neck etc. You donít think that itís plausible for a chamber to be made exactly to a round spec? You donít think if said chamber varies a bit that it can cause malfunctions with other rounds?


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: cjgemm on June 12, 2018, 11:00:10 AM
Probably way more than you. But please tell me how that post makes you think I donít shoot.

You obviously donít if you think that a custom match ammo canít vary outside of normal specs when it comes to aspects including OAL, powder, burn, neck etc. You donít think that itís plausible for a chamber to be made exactly to a round spec? You donít think if said chamber varies a bit that it can cause malfunctions with other rounds?


While there are company's that will load "custom" ammo for your rifle http://coppercreekammo.com/loaddev/ (http://coppercreekammo.com/loaddev/), DT Munitions is not one of them...

While they might hold things to very consistent tolerances (as most Match ammunition manufactures strive to do), and a .5 MOA accuracy guarantee from a precision rifle.  They are bound by the same SAAMI specs as Federal, Hornady, Prime etc.

As for shooting more, what exactly is your keystroke to round count ratio?  Doe's Impact make a special data book page for that?


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: Whoops on June 12, 2018, 11:48:03 AM
Probably way more than you. But please tell me how that post makes you think I donít shoot.

You obviously donít if you think that a custom match ammo canít vary outside of normal specs when it comes to aspects including OAL, powder, burn, neck etc. You donít think that itís plausible for a chamber to be made exactly to a round spec? You donít think if said chamber varies a bit that it can cause malfunctions with other rounds?


While there are company's that will load "custom" ammo for your rifle http://coppercreekammo.com/loaddev/ (http://coppercreekammo.com/loaddev/), DT Munitions is not one of them...

While they might hold things to very consistent tolerances (as most Match ammunition manufactures strive to do), and a .5 MOA accuracy guarantee from a precision rifle.  They are bound by the same SAAMI specs as Federal, Hornady, Prime etc.

As for shooting more, what exactly is your keystroke to round count ratio?  Doe's Impact make a special data book page for that?

Why is everyone an insufferable piece of ****?

I don't even really.like thehun, but his point is possible and you deliberately trying to mix up what he said is s***ty. If there ammo.is at the extreme end of SAAMI specs and the gun is built to run with that ammo, then it could easily cause issues. Maybe less time mag dumping on the range is what you need, try working those keystrokes a bit and researching how find actually work.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: cjgemm on June 12, 2018, 12:11:23 PM
Probably way more than you. But please tell me how that post makes you think I donít shoot.

You obviously donít if you think that a custom match ammo canít vary outside of normal specs when it comes to aspects including OAL, powder, burn, neck etc. You donít think that itís plausible for a chamber to be made exactly to a round spec? You donít think if said chamber varies a bit that it can cause malfunctions with other rounds?


While there are company's that will load "custom" ammo for your rifle http://coppercreekammo.com/loaddev/ (http://coppercreekammo.com/loaddev/), DT Munitions is not one of them...

While they might hold things to very consistent tolerances (as most Match ammunition manufactures strive to do), and a .5 MOA accuracy guarantee from a precision rifle.  They are bound by the same SAAMI specs as Federal, Hornady, Prime etc.

As for shooting more, what exactly is your keystroke to round count ratio?  Doe's Impact make a special data book page for that?

Why is everyone an insufferable piece of ****?

I don't even really.like thehun, but his point is possible and you deliberately trying to mix up what he said is s***ty. If there ammo.is at the extreme end of SAAMI specs and the gun is built to run with that ammo, then it could easily cause issues. Maybe less time mag dumping on the range is what you need, try working those keystrokes a bit and researching how find actually work.

So...

What exactly is the extemmmmme edge of 2.8"?  And how would that effect every other rifle that is not a MDR when the goal is .5MOA or better?

That's right DT called up PTG and had a custom reamer's made up to match their ammo, that does what its supposed to in non-MDR rifles...







Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: coldboremiracle on June 12, 2018, 02:10:07 PM
When you have a private label match ammo, like what DT has, its specs can vary from commercial rounds...so if the chamber is spec'd form that round...it might cause issues on others...its just hypothesis that I do not think it has been tried.
Interesting hypothesis, but only that.
Not helping your case Coldbore.  Instead of stooping to his level how about posting information in a professional manner, that well represents your company.  "Here's exactly what the specs are, the MDR was designed to function with X ammunition but not Y". "Thank you for your interest in Desert Tech products".
I dont have a case. You guys are making a case, an interesting one as I mentioned, but it is incorrect. I dont know the exact specs of the chamber, but I do know that it was not made specifically for DTM Match, or any other specific ammunition or brand or type.
I dont share exact specs because I dont have them. I am here as an individual, same as anyone else. I dont speak for DT but I do try and interject where I can with what I do know and feel comfortable sharing. But I dont have daily meetings with Nick Young to to inform him what is being discussed on the BPF, nor do I get updates on chamber specs, ship dates, or conversion kit status'. I am happy to help where I can , but I am not the single point of DT info dissemination that some would like to believe.
If I had a case to make, it would be only this; I like Desert Tech products. I like them enough to spend my own hard earned money on them long before I was employed there. And despite the issues, both myself and the majority of people I speak with quite enjoy the MDR and are happy with it. 




Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: Whoops on June 12, 2018, 02:38:48 PM
Can we see these positive reports? I mean, some folks have had great results with their MDR I'm willing to bet, but I'd love to see where all these positive reports are given that I have yet to see a single one.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: coldboremiracle on June 12, 2018, 03:25:52 PM
Can we see these positive reports? I mean, some folks have had great results with their MDR I'm willing to bet, but I'd love to see where all these positive reports are given that I have yet to see a single one.
Gotta leave the BPF  ;)


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: Whoops on June 12, 2018, 03:38:18 PM
Can we see these positive reports? I mean, some folks have had great results with their MDR I'm willing to bet, but I'd love to see where all these positive reports are given that I have yet to see a single one.
Gotta leave the BPF  ;)

I know that folks are more.likely to complain here, which is why I'm asking you to provide us those sources of people having a great time with their MDR.

Also as a correction to my earlier statement, I do believe I've seen one or two positive MDR experiences here but as of yet I'd like to see something that I dictates the vast majority of people haven't been having a hard time getting more than a few mags downrange.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: AF Gunner on June 12, 2018, 03:39:30 PM
Can we see these positive reports? I mean, some folks have had great results with their MDR I'm willing to bet, but I'd love to see where all these positive reports are given that I have yet to see a single one.

I've posted my positive review here more than once. 734 rounds and not a single issue... Search my posts you will find them.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: coldboremiracle on June 12, 2018, 03:54:28 PM
I'd like to see something that indictates the vast majority of people haven't been having a hard time getting more than a few mags downrange.
The vast majority are not on BPF, nor are they on FB, or even post much online.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: Sawdustshot on June 12, 2018, 09:04:48 PM
The vast majority are not on BPF, nor are they on FB, or even post much online.
Isn't that convenient that there's no public record of the experiences of the vast majority of owners.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: kfeltenberger on June 12, 2018, 09:32:55 PM
The vast majority are not on BPF, nor are they on FB, or even post much online.
Isn't that convenient that there's no public record of the experiences of the vast majority of owners.

That's sort of harsh, given the human propensity to publicly complain about every little thing at least a magnitude of times more than compliment.  Given the absolutely negative environment here and over at ARFcom, the two most public forums for discussion, I'm not surprised that people who have positive things to say are either keeping quiet or just left.

I'm not granting absolution to DT for the issues, just commenting on human nature. 


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: Clarke-Sensei on June 12, 2018, 10:01:55 PM
Yeah, this whole MDR sections gone haywire. Especially the stupidly confrontational comments.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: Whoops on June 12, 2018, 10:05:11 PM
Can we see these positive reports? I mean, some folks have had great results with their MDR I'm willing to bet, but I'd love to see where all these positive reports are given that I have yet to see a single one.

I've posted my positive review here more than once. 734 rounds and not a single issue... Search my posts you will find them.

Yeah I think it was you who I was referring to when I corrected myself in my next post.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: 50BMG on June 12, 2018, 10:30:07 PM
The MDR owners group on Facebook has some positive reviews, they are out there.  Also Coldbore, I appreciate the knowledge and experience with the MDR that you bring to the forum and I know others do as well.  Thanks.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: ES Tactical on June 12, 2018, 10:43:14 PM
Measuring the OAL with a hornady gauge and some quick measurements of fired brass seems to match a SAAMI chamber. I've also not seen anything from DT saying it was designed for, or to use their factory ammo. I just got a new MDR last week and it runs M80, M118LR, Hornady 168gr TAP and some unknown remington factory soft points that I had in a zip lock on a shelf.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk



Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: CabbitOne on June 12, 2018, 11:44:34 PM
Holy f***, this is turning into quite the s*** show. Especially on a thread just intended to share my experiences with the rifle.


RE: Chamber spec hypothesis;
Very well could be contributing to the issue(s). I'm not set up to check .308 chambers, so I can't test it. Nor do any of us know what DT's spec calls for. Though it does make me frequently wonder about fluting....
Someone said something along the lines of there being more than just a tight/loose chamber, and I tend to agree based on my sample size of one.
I'd be curious to see if DT's ammo made any difference, but I highly doubt it would perform magically different than any other match ammo.

RE: coldboremiracle;
Thanks for sharing what knowledge you have. Even if its not what we want to hear. Always interested in hearing from those who are on the other side of the curtain. Please keep chiming in and letting the s*** slide off. The more we hear from DT, even from employees acting on their own accord, the less it seems like "OH s***! there are problems better go radio silent"

RE: Custom Ammo;
Pretty sure any company making barrels/chambers being branded as .308 or 7.62 or a company selling ammo branded as shame is asking for a pretty big lawsuit if they're not following SAAMI spec with that branding and as a result cause a catastrophic event. I can't fathom any company intentionally doing this while siamotainously not telling its customers.

RE: Positive reports;
As some have already said, most people who are happy aren't posting online about it. Heck, I shoot my AUGs all the time and unless I'm answering a question related to my experiences, I'm not posting about it. The internet is everyone's soapbox for good or bad.
Unfortunately, none of us know how many MDRs are in the wild. As such, we can't truly estimate what their failure rate is. I'm in agreement, that is is probably high. A lot higher than it ought to be. But we don't know solid numbers.
Actually started this thread hoping I would be one of those good experiences and give some hope to others out there. Unfortunately, that hasn't been the case. Oh well.

RE: My rifle;
Its on its way back, great communication back and forth. Two videos showing function with a variety of ammo. In spite of everything, I'm still excited to shoot it.
 


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: squiros on June 13, 2018, 02:33:01 AM
the people who go online are independent of the people who are negative. i've worked as a statistician and a friend does so on a corporate level. the statistics you see of positive to negative are the same online as they are in real life and what the company should expect most of the time (depending on a few things). which kind of makes sense, there's no reason that people who go online are more likely to be negative. that means a survey online should be representative most of the time. this is why amazon reviews work, for example.

saami spec is always the same in an ideal situation. if you measure some cartridges, this will become immediately apparent. the outside edge of 2.0 is 2.008. worst 'case' scenario, it goes to 2.010 or something horrifying.
"The SAAMI spec for .308 Win case length is 1.995"-2.015", and the military spec is 2.000"-2.015"."
for a lot of professional competitors, this is absolutely critical to get to 1/4 moa or whatever. this is because a lot of guns have a 'jump' where the bullet jumps into rifling. as a result, accuracy degrades considerably. a lot of competitors will actually test distances so that this bullet jump is minimized for best accuracy. this is the theory behind why reloads are overall more accurate as well.
dt could reasonably be closer to say 2.013 on average and barrel accordingly. this would be inside saami specifications but would also be tailored to dt ammo.

also keep in mind, PR doesn't have access to engineering specs and for good reason. best practices for engineering may require a good understanding of industry standards which PR people usually lack. this is not a shot at any employees, it's true for all industries. whether or not Public Relations gets to divulge parameters that could be company secrets is generally up to the Project Manager who consults with engineers and does have a sound understanding of the implications. even if the PR is an engineer, it would be better to keep silent about most technical data unless authorized. if dt WAS doing this internally they definitely wouldn't tell PR and would not admit to it publicly. most buyers aren't that interested, the enthusiasts may not know what to do with the info, PR may have to defend it and may not do so correctly and etc.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: EWTHeckman on June 13, 2018, 10:07:03 AM
squiros,

Thanks for the info and welcome to BPF!  :welcome


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: CabbitOne on June 13, 2018, 11:15:28 AM
the people who go online are independent of the people who are negative. i've worked as a statistician and a friend does so on a corporate level. the statistics you see of positive to negative are the same online as they are in real life and what the company should expect most of the time (depending on a few things). which kind of makes sense, there's no reason that people who go online are more likely to be negative. that means a survey online should be representative most of the time. this is why amazon reviews work, for example.

saami spec is always the same in an ideal situation. if you measure some cartridges, this will become immediately apparent. the outside edge of 2.0 is 2.008. worst 'case' scenario, it goes to 2.010 or something horrifying.
"The SAAMI spec for .308 Win case length is 1.995"-2.015", and the military spec is 2.000"-2.015"."
for a lot of professional competitors, this is absolutely critical to get to 1/4 moa or whatever. this is because a lot of guns have a 'jump' where the bullet jumps into rifling. as a result, accuracy degrades considerably. a lot of competitors will actually test distances so that this bullet jump is minimized for best accuracy. this is the theory behind why reloads are overall more accurate as well.
dt could reasonably be closer to say 2.013 on average and barrel accordingly. this would be inside saami specifications but would also be tailored to dt ammo.

also keep in mind, PR doesn't have access to engineering specs and for good reason. best practices for engineering may require a good understanding of industry standards which PR people usually lack. this is not a shot at any employees, it's true for all industries. whether or not Public Relations gets to divulge parameters that could be company secrets is generally up to the Project Manager who consults with engineers and does have a sound understanding of the implications. even if the PR is an engineer, it would be better to keep silent about most technical data unless authorized. if dt WAS doing this internally they definitely wouldn't tell PR and would not admit to it publicly. most buyers aren't that interested, the enthusiasts may not know what to do with the info, PR may have to defend it and may not do so correctly and etc.

I'm not trying to say you're wrong, merely wishing to know more information from someone specialized in the area of statistics.

Why would people take the time to go online and post positive reviews? I would think this isn't like an online survey, simply because people are not being prompted for their feedback. Again, I would think only emotional factors would drive the majority of posters to post anything. So we're left with diehard hopefuls defending DT and those with negative experiences comprising the majority of posts.

Thats not even including the likely uncounted number who simply do not post either way. Many people do not spend time on forums or even facebook groups. I would think the number of those who eschew internet communities are likely higher when we deal with firearms enthusiasts. The "don't want people knowing my business" mentality. I would think that your sample is not representative of the whole in this instance.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: coldboremiracle on June 13, 2018, 11:30:04 AM
the people who go online are independent of the people who are negative. i've worked as a statistician and a friend does so on a corporate level. the statistics you see of positive to negative are the same online as they are in real life and what the company should expect most of the time (depending on a few things). which kind of makes sense, there's no reason that people who go online are more likely to be negative. that means a survey online should be representative most of the time. this is why amazon reviews work, for example.

saami spec is always the same in an ideal situation. if you measure some cartridges, this will become immediately apparent. the outside edge of 2.0 is 2.008. worst 'case' scenario, it goes to 2.010 or something horrifying.
"The SAAMI spec for .308 Win case length is 1.995"-2.015", and the military spec is 2.000"-2.015"."
for a lot of professional competitors, this is absolutely critical to get to 1/4 moa or whatever. this is because a lot of guns have a 'jump' where the bullet jumps into rifling. as a result, accuracy degrades considerably. a lot of competitors will actually test distances so that this bullet jump is minimized for best accuracy. this is the theory behind why reloads are overall more accurate as well.
dt could reasonably be closer to say 2.013 on average and barrel accordingly. this would be inside saami specifications but would also be tailored to dt ammo.

also keep in mind, PR doesn't have access to engineering specs and for good reason. best practices for engineering may require a good understanding of industry standards which PR people usually lack. this is not a shot at any employees, it's true for all industries. whether or not Public Relations gets to divulge parameters that could be company secrets is generally up to the Project Manager who consults with engineers and does have a sound understanding of the implications. even if the PR is an engineer, it would be better to keep silent about most technical data unless authorized. if dt WAS doing this internally they definitely wouldn't tell PR and would not admit to it publicly. most buyers aren't that interested, the enthusiasts may not know what to do with the info, PR may have to defend it and may not do so correctly and etc.
Why would people take the time to go online and post positive reviews? I would think this isn't like an online survey, simply because people are not being prompted for their feedback. Again, I would think only emotional factors would drive the majority of posters to post anything. So we're left with diehard hopefuls defending DT and those with negative experiences comprising the majority of posts.

Thats not even including the likely uncounted number who simply do not post either way. Many people do not spend time on forums or even facebook groups. I would think the number of those who eschew internet communities are likely higher when we deal with firearms enthusiasts. The "don't want people knowing my business" mentality. I would think that your sample is not representative of the whole in this instance.

Having seen MUCH data specifically related to the MDR and its owners, I agree with ^this assessment 100% 


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: thehun on June 13, 2018, 12:11:11 PM
Yup. I would say only 5% of firearm owners are true enthusiast...and that same 5% are the only ones that probably seek any sort of additional training on firearms outside of a mandatory CCW class.

I would like to encourage MDR owners who might read this forum but do not post is to post their positive experiences with the MDR...I think it would be great to hear.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: CabbitOne on June 13, 2018, 12:49:34 PM
Yup. I would say only 5% of firearm owners are true enthusiast...and that same 5% are the only ones that probably seek any sort of additional training on firearms outside of a mandatory CCW class.

I would like to encourage MDR owners who might read this forum but do not post is to post their positive experiences with the MDR...I think it would be great to hear.


I feel like that first 5% might be a little high, though we could be generous with the term enthusiast and bump it up a little... and that second 5% is probably more like 2.5%.  :P

I posted the same sentiment several times in the GB section. I'd love to see GOOD reports. Every so often I've seen a few on the FB page but its usually like "got her out to the range and shot XXX rounds, love this gun" then radio silence.
What I really want to see is reports of guns, previously working, run through classes and competitions. Regardless of a positive or negative outcome.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: thehun on June 13, 2018, 01:50:20 PM
Bingo.

Like GeeMan on the CZ forums...his CZ BREN 805 has over 20K rounds (just got an update from him on round count)...without a hiccup...he ordered several spare parts in case (CZ does a great job with that)...and he only needed to replace the gas plug as it had slight erosion....at 19K fired...he stated it was still holding 2-3MOA with M855.

When he sent an email to CZ, they stated that the military overhaul schedule is at 20K rounds (springs, extractor and wear items)...so for most civilians shooting...that can extend further...cemented that the platform is solid.

Everything on the BREN though is bar stock steel or forged 7075.

Those types of reports are the ones that get me excited, really excited about a platform...someone that has the capability outside of the factory to put a weapon through its paces...heck...any platform that can do 10K rounds fired with a flawless report and along the way some of the springs needed to be replaced...I would be super impressed.



Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: Blackandwhiteknight on June 13, 2018, 10:14:03 PM
Yup. I would say only 5% of firearm owners are true enthusiast...and that same 5% are the only ones that probably seek any sort of additional training on firearms outside of a mandatory CCW class.

I would like to encourage MDR owners who might read this forum but do not post is to post their positive experiences with the MDR...I think it would be great to hear.


I feel like that first 5% might be a little high, though we could be generous with the term enthusiast and bump it up a little... and that second 5% is probably more like 2.5%.  :P

I posted the same sentiment several times in the GB section. I'd love to see GOOD reports. Every so often I've seen a few on the FB page but its usually like "got her out to the range and shot XXX rounds, love this gun" then radio silence.
What I really want to see is reports of guns, previously working, run through classes and competitions. Regardless of a positive or negative outcome.

This right here is why the stats are off.  There were a bunch of people posting on BPF before the MDR launched. Once they got their guns, the people that got working guns went off the play.  No comment, gun if fine.  The vocal bunch are the enthusiasts, and the people that got guns that don't work...  On top of that most casual shooters are not going to nearly stress the gun enough to have issues.  Grabbing a few boxes of good ammo and plinky for an hour or so is quite a bit different than shooting it like you want to fight with it.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: Tubal on June 13, 2018, 11:07:41 PM
Yup. I would say only 5% of firearm owners are true enthusiast...and that same 5% are the only ones that probably seek any sort of additional training on firearms outside of a mandatory CCW class.

I would like to encourage MDR owners who might read this forum but do not post is to post their positive experiences with the MDR...I think it would be great to hear.


I feel like that first 5% might be a little high, though we could be generous with the term enthusiast and bump it up a little... and that second 5% is probably more like 2.5%.  :P

I posted the same sentiment several times in the GB section. I'd love to see GOOD reports. Every so often I've seen a few on the FB page but its usually like "got her out to the range and shot XXX rounds, love this gun" then radio silence.
What I really want to see is reports of guns, previously working, run through classes and competitions. Regardless of a positive or negative outcome.

... The vocal bunch are the enthusiasts, and the people that got guns that don't work... 

The most vocal bunch are the people that just like to complain...

The people who got guns that are having issues, talking about them, talking about what they tried, what they didn't, what the status is, etc, those are the people worth listening to and that have interesting things to say.

The people who have never touched the gun but post every third post about how crap the MDR is, they tend to be the most vocal bunch, and why it seems like the MDR has a lot more issues than it does.

And it's not just the MDR.  Seems like you see these types anytime a new interesting topic/item/technology comes up.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: mityno1 on June 13, 2018, 11:13:02 PM
...than shooting it like you want to fight with it.

What I think you meant to say was, "...than shooting it as *if* you had to fight with it."

Words can be twisted out of context to imply things that you did not mean to say. No good person ever "wants to fight," but every responsible person should train to have the capacity to defend their family, friends, and neighbors if threatened.

Part of our responsibility to the firearms culture is to portray our peaceful intentions clearly and not allow gun grabbing globalists to spin doctor our image into a bunch of "Dirty Harry/Death Wish" crazy vigilantes spoiling for a fight.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: ney1 on June 14, 2018, 12:26:27 AM
CabbitOne,
The the bottom of the upper receiver is a guiding surface for the mag-release transfer bar so if you are actually it with the lower receiver separated from the upper receiver it will not keep the transfer bar in proper alignment.  Please test it only with the receivers assembled together.  This is a part of the design and not a failure of the mechanism.  If you are having issues with it installed on the upper receiver then it has a problem.

Thanks

Nick


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: ney1 on June 14, 2018, 03:36:16 AM
The MDR has a SAAMI Spec chamber and no the chamber was not specially designed to fire our ammunition.  It was designed to fire all SAAMI spec ammo.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: CabbitOne on June 14, 2018, 12:29:01 PM
CabbitOne,
The the bottom of the upper receiver is a guiding surface for the mag-release transfer bar so if you are actually it with the lower receiver separated from the upper receiver it will not keep the transfer bar in proper alignment.  Please test it only with the receivers assembled together.  This is a part of the design and not a failure of the mechanism.  If you are having issues with it installed on the upper receiver then it has a problem.

Thanks

Nick


Never tried it with them separated, other than on the original lower I had AFTER the tab was broken. Even then it was only to take better pictures of the issue.

The replacement lower, that is on the rifle that is on its way back to me, was exhibiting the same issue during my single range trip. Though the retaining tab was still in one piece.
Assuming the rifle is otherwise working when I receive it, I'll see if I can determine what is causing it to slip free.

When I say its slipping free, its slipping forward towards the muzzle. Thus trapping the catch in the out position.

I will say, I've handled three lowers at this point. My original, my replacement, and the shipping error rifle. My original was by far the "heaviest". The replacement was slightly better and has improved marginally with use, though still not anywhere near what I'd consider serviceable. The shipping error was magnitudes better than the other two straight out of the box.
Its to the point I wish I only had the rear release if it meant that the weight would be reduced.


Also, thanks for joining in on the conversation.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: Blackandwhiteknight on June 14, 2018, 12:46:54 PM
...than shooting it like you want to fight with it.

What I think you meant to say was, "...than shooting it as *if* you had to fight with it."

Words can be twisted out of context to imply things that you did not mean to say. No good person ever "wants to fight," but every responsible person should train to have the capacity to defend their family, friends, and neighbors if threatened.

Part of our responsibility to the firearms culture is to portray our peaceful intentions clearly and not allow gun grabbing globalists to spin doctor our image into a bunch of "Dirty Harry/Death Wish" crazy vigilantes spoiling for a fight.


 Wanting the best tool for the job is what I was referring to.  Always on the search for a better mouse trap.  I agree with your observation, thank you for clarifying.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: Sawdustshot on June 15, 2018, 09:19:45 AM
That's sort of harsh, given the human propensity to publicly complain about every little thing at least a magnitude of times more than compliment.  Given the absolutely negative environment here and over at ARFcom, the two most public forums for discussion, I'm not surprised that people who have positive things to say are either keeping quiet or just left.

I'm not granting absolution to DT for the issues, just commenting on human nature. 
Eh, maybe. I would expect the reports here or anywhere with established users to be more representative than just a pile of reviews. The relative consistency of reported issues also suggests that something is amiss in the design or manufacture.  I would still like one, assuming the teething issues get ironed out.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: kfeltenberger on June 15, 2018, 07:38:57 PM
That's sort of harsh, given the human propensity to publicly complain about every little thing at least a magnitude of times more than compliment.  Given the absolutely negative environment here and over at ARFcom, the two most public forums for discussion, I'm not surprised that people who have positive things to say are either keeping quiet or just left.

I'm not granting absolution to DT for the issues, just commenting on human nature. 
Eh, maybe. I would expect the reports here or anywhere with established users to be more representative than just a pile of reviews. The relative consistency of reported issues also suggests that something is amiss in the design or manufacture.  I would still like one, assuming the teething issues get ironed out.

I've been involved with customer relations in one form or another for over 30 years and the one constant is that people will complain more than they will praise, and of those who complain, "experts", enthusiasts, people who may never have used the product but want to dogpile, and skeptics tend to complain the loudest.  I'm not passing judgment on anyone who has complained as the issues appear quite valid, nor am I branding anyone with those labels, I'm just relating my experience over three decades of dealing with the public.

Also, on this forum and ARFcom, it is a very hostile environment if you support or praise the MDR.

Couple all that together and anyone who isn't a regular contributor or doesn't mind the flack from posting something positive probably won't bother.  I know that when I finally shoot mine that other than a "they work/don't work" comment, I probably won't say much more because I'm tired of the negativity.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: CabbitOne on June 15, 2018, 10:17:58 PM
Received my rifle back today. Had a bit of a chuckle as it was packaged in a Palmetto State Armory box. This time it still had its service tag attached and in the box was a letter from another customer talking about a barrel (not MDR) being sent in for some work. As I'm typing this, I'm looking over at the box and realized I never checked the outside paperwork... maybe more goodies to be found.

Anyways, broke down my rifle and looked everything over because for once I actually had some time. Few random thoughts before I head to the range tomorrow.

The lower's fit to the upper is atrocious. It is having to flex (somewhat) slightly for all three pins to be engaged. Due to this overly tight fit I have developed a patent pending (/sarcasm) DT MDR Take Down Pin Tool. Only one in the world, that I know of, and is available for purchase at the low low one time price of $3500!
(https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=21056;image) (https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=21055;image)
Seriously, I threw this together out of parts I had lying around and it makes it about a million times easier to remove the pins and re-install them. MDR Range kit needs one of these, a rod for tapping stuck cases, and a torque wrench.
Back to the fit; With the front two pins installed I have to press the upper receiver down towards the lower while siamotainously pushing the buttplate towards the muzzle. On top of this, because the fit is so "tight" its possible for the pin to enter the rear trunnion and then strike the inside of the upper receiver due to cant and open space.

I suspect I know (one of?) the reason(s) the front magazine releases are so "heavy" and break in. Can't tell more without disassembly, and I'm not willing to go that far on a gun I haven't even confirmed function on. It looks like the magazine release buttons are rubbing against the top side of the lower receiver internally. In my picture you might be able to see some flaring where the polymer lower (internally) meets the magazine release buttons. This might explain or contribute to why the fronts are "heavy" and the rear seems better.
(https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=21059;image) (https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=21057;image)
^ not sure why it rotated after being uploaded, but I don't care enough right now to try to fix it

All of the issues, which I could check at home, that I sent the MDR in for service seem to be resolved. So theres that at least.

In the ask me anything thread (https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?topic=13152.0) someone asked about the drop safety aspect of the MDR. The response thus far was the rifle is safe if the gun is on safe. Looking at my lower, I wonder how much force it would take to jar components in the trigger group separate from the trigger and trigger bar. (The trigger bar only acts upon the trigger group, it does not secure it. The trigger and trigger bar, however, are secured by the safety.)

Also, CBM if you're reading this you should totally respond to my email!  :P


Title: Range Trip #2
Post by: CabbitOne on June 16, 2018, 03:55:18 PM
(06/16/18)
Brought the MDR out to the range with me today.

(https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=21061;image) (https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13025.0;attach=21060;image)

20 Rounds of Lake City M80 through one of the Gen3m PMAGs, no issues.

12 Rounds of Lake City M80 through the Lancer 25 magazine, no issues.

25 rounds of Nosler Trophy Grade 186gr AccuBond Long Range ammo. Two Issues; 1) Inserted the magazine, pressed the bolt release, failed to pick up the first cartridge. Removed the mag, reseated the ammo, reinserted the magazine, ran the CH, loaded. Fired 2. Failure to pick up the cartridge. Dropped the mag, cleared the carfuffle, reinserted the magazine, ran the CH. Remaining rounds fired with no issue.
I wonder if its just the spring tension on the lancer magazine causing the problems.


At this point I'm out inexpensive ammo to keep dumping through the gun. I'll pick up more M80 at some point, but don't know when that will be. I have other firearms projects I'd rather COMPLETE than just keep dumping money into. As I've stated, I don't normally shoot .308 so don't have stockpiles of training ammo for it.

I suspect anything that can be done to reduce friction in the entire system will dramatically improve performance.


Title: Re: Range Trip #2
Post by: Blackandwhiteknight on June 16, 2018, 04:25:21 PM
(06/16/18)

I suspect anything that can be done to reduce friction in the entire system will dramatically improve performance.

  This has been my observation as well.

  I would be really surprised if you can get the Lancers to work, the steel feed lips seem to disagree with the steep feedramp.  If I had to take a guess that is why the 147 gr M80 worked and the 186gr Accbounds did not.  The ogive/ bullet profile is much sleeker on the 147, while the Accubonds are round and bulky.  The bulky ogive would push the cartridge up more as it hit the feedramps causing more drag on the feed lips.

  Good to see it's shooting for you though. ;)


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: cjgemm on June 16, 2018, 05:28:06 PM
Aim surplus

540 rounds of Malaysian m80 suplus for $240.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: thehun on June 16, 2018, 05:41:35 PM
^^^that is the ammo I run in my LMT MWS with 0 issues


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: JesseJames38 on June 16, 2018, 08:14:26 PM
I would prob stay away from that ammo for the mdr to be honest.   If i was to try out of county nato ammo i would buy it in smaller quanitys. Unless you have another rifle. The 7.62 nato ball  stg58 i had ran into issues with being stuck in the chamber.   

Jesse.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: coldboremiracle on June 21, 2018, 05:48:15 PM
I would prob stay away from that ammo for the mdr to be honest.   If i was to try out of county nato ammo i would buy it in smaller quanitys. Unless you have another rifle. The 7.62 nato ball  stg58 i had ran into issues with being stuck in the chamber.   

Jesse.
Agreed


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: AF Gunner on June 22, 2018, 10:10:07 AM
I would prob stay away from that ammo for the mdr to be honest.   If i was to try out of county nato ammo i would buy it in smaller quanitys. Unless you have another rifle. The 7.62 nato ball  stg58 i had ran into issues with being stuck in the chamber.   

Jesse.

Double agreed!


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: CabbitOne on June 23, 2018, 02:23:15 PM
Quick update, still haven't gotten around to buying more .308 but did notice something else!

Went to pick up my MDR to move it and felt something move within my grip. Upon further inspection the FH is loose and will easily rotate about a 1/4 turn using just my finger tips..... So, thats fun. I seem to recall others saying its on there so tight they were worried about damage trying to remove it... mine is apparently the other end of the spectrum.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: JesseJames38 on June 23, 2018, 03:20:17 PM
I think you may just be the most unlucky MDR owner that i know of to date.    Having a loose muzzle device wouldnt bother me.     If all you can do is turn it free had a quarter of a turn and it stops.  I would start to wonder if the threads are messed up.    If its loose you should be able to spin it off all the way.

Unless there is something i dont understand about threads on muzzle\muzzle devices


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: CabbitOne on June 23, 2018, 04:15:00 PM
I think you may just be the most unlucky MDR owner that i know of to date.    Having a loose muzzle device wouldnt bother me.     If all you can do is turn it free had a quarter of a turn and it stops.  I would start to wonder if the threads are messed up.    If its loose you should be able to spin it off all the way.

Unless there is something i dont understand about threads on muzzle\muzzle devices
Re the threads being messed up;
That was exactly my first thought. Iíll investigate further when I get home. Itís only a quarter turn and stops in either direction.
I could see maybe it stopping if itís hitting some globes thread locker (rocksett) but itís certinly concerning. Regardless, it shouldnít be able to move from the factory.

Question to all the other MDR owners out there. Are there any sort of washers or anything behind your factory FH?


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: thehun on June 23, 2018, 04:21:26 PM
I do not believe DT puts a washer or shim behind its factory muzzle device.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: Radius13 on June 23, 2018, 07:59:35 PM
Nothing of great value in this post of mine, but....

I am pretty certain I read somewhere in here that someone else requested that their muzzle device purposely not be cranked down as hard as DT had initially been 'welding them on' ( <----joke there - I don't want to start any rumors.)


I 100% agree yours should not be as loose as you describe, so maybe someone else requested that their FH be loose recently and you just got that person's gun.?

OR

Since in the beginning DT got a bunch of complaints about having the muzzle devices on too tight, they now have lightened up (which I think they themselves even said they were going to do), but your assembler just way under did it on yours.
  (Or maybe the assembler did not use an official DT torque wrench (<-- Another joke there -- sorry -- I know the ones in the DT kits are not for the muzzle devices.))

Really just wanted to post something since I still can not say I have an MDR to tell you about. :(
I hope by having to wait, at least all the reported bugs will be worked out.
  Super excited about the post from one of our forum members saying he had his Local Gun Shop already contacted by DT about his .223....if it was not just a marketing gimmick.

That is all.



Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: GoShort on June 23, 2018, 09:27:17 PM
I am in the same boat as you Radius13. Anxiously awaiting my MDR.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk



Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: bassybob on June 23, 2018, 09:29:06 PM
CabbitOne,

I have an early S/N FDE and when I removed the factory FH, there was no washer behind it or any kind of locktite on the threads. I will say that I had to buy a set of magnetic soft jaws for my 6" vise, crank the barrel down with a 4' cheater bar and use a 1/2" drive breaker bar with the AAC 3-prong tool to break it loose. I am glad Hercules has been fired at DT.

By the way, I have 300 flawless rounds through mine (PMC M80 military surplus and Federal XM80C) except for when I tried a couple with a lancer mag which it did not like. 1/2 of the rounds on normal setting and 1/2 on suppressed with an early OSS I bought through the Tavor GB. The OSS dropped the recoil at least 50%. I have not used the adverse setting, at all.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: Wingsparky on June 23, 2018, 10:02:40 PM
Haha, no marketing gimmick Radius.  My best friend works at the gun shop and text me when he got to work that day and saw the receipt in the transfer bin.  I'm just hoping that receipt doesn't collect a lot of dust now waiting for me to pay.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: CabbitOne on June 25, 2018, 10:59:00 PM
Thanks for the replies about the thread lockers and washers/shims.

I reached out to DT and their assumption is its bottoming out on one side against the threads and carbon in the other direction.
The only way to tell is to screw it off, and clean em.

Whenever I get time I'll see if I can get it off with what I have... if not, it'll go off to my barrel wizard to be removed and have something else installed.


I'm really hopeful that the 5.56 guns don't suffer the same problems the .308 guns have.


Title: Re: Lets See If I Can Break It (My MDR)
Post by: coldboremiracle on June 26, 2018, 07:02:25 PM
I do not believe DT puts a washer or shim behind its factory muzzle device.
^ fact