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Bullpup Rifles (Auto & Semi-Auto Centerfire) => Desert Tech MDR => Topic started by: rtp on November 26, 2017, 10:49:02 PM



Title: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on November 26, 2017, 10:49:02 PM
So after nearly 4 years from my first pre-order I've got a tracking number. Amusingly, they tried to deliver Friday but my FFL wasn't around to accept it.  ??? ::)

One of the prior times weíd heard Ďcoming soon,í but before we knew the 5,56 was delayed even more, Iíd picked up a DeltaPoint Pro for the 5.56, at a premium, so was waiting for rifle in hand before throwing down any more $$ down the 'MDR hole,' but with a tracking number and lots of online Black Friday Xmas shopping, I went ahead and did some MDR shopping as well.

So far, that's amounted to:
Bushnell Elite Tactical DMR2 3.5-21x50, illuminated, G3 reticle.  I love my ERS, and while I expect to eventually it out the MDR with a 1-8 or 1-10, I want to do some accuracy testing and load development so I expect it will see a good amount of use and I may consider replacing my ERS with it if the glass is as improved as claimed.

Aero precision FDE extended mount.  Not sure this will wind up being a keeper due to optic centerline height but it will do for now.

Seekins Precision 5 slot M-lok rail for the fore-end, and a Magpul 3-slot.  I'll use one for mounting my Atlas bipod to, and the other for a light mount, although the light makes more sense once it's in its later 1-8x configuration.

TLR-1 HL kit. Lame that it seems you can't get an FDE light with the remote kit, while the remote kit separately doesn't include the remote door, so in black for now.  Thought about the WML but like the TLR-1 HLs in general, so we'll see.

Magpul M-lok and Pic rail QD mounts.  TBD on which one I'll wind up using but AFAIK, no forward QD on the MDR, so will use one of the two.  

Still sorting a sling. Unless I'm convinced otherwise, I still really like the Urban ERT I run on my AUG.  I swap it to/from 1 and 2 point modes fairly often, and while I wish it didn't have a hanging free end, the wide strap is great.

Picked up some misc bullets for reloading but also a handful of factory ammo.  I've got some FGMM SMK175 and Outback SMK168gr on hand, but picked up some:
IMI M80 ball 147gr,
PP 155 BTHP match
Hornady 155gr Palma Amax match
Hornady 178gr BTHP match
IMI 168gr razer core OTM
PNC 168gr matcHave
Hornady steel case 155gr match - didn't realize it was steel case when ordering. Meh.







Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: INV136 on November 27, 2017, 05:06:12 PM
4 years? I thought DT didn't start accepting pre-paid orders until February 2016? At least that's when I first heard about pre-paid orders being accepted. And, I had to wait until February 2016 to get my order in because they took that long before they responded to my e-mail. Prior to that I was on the BPF group buy list, but, no pre-orders.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: kfeltenberger on November 27, 2017, 05:35:01 PM
Some dealers were building a waiting list as soon as the MDR was announced.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on November 27, 2017, 09:34:16 PM
4 years? I thought DT didn't start accepting pre-paid orders until February 2016? At least that's when I first heard about pre-paid orders being accepted. And, I had to wait until February 2016 to get my order in because they took that long before they responded to my e-mail. Prior to that I was on the BPF group buy list, but, no pre-orders.
Yep - Jan 2014 deposit for Oakland Tactical, #40 for BPF and payment Feb 2016 for BPF.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on November 27, 2017, 09:44:57 PM
So....something came today.  It might look somewhat familiar.
(https://i.imgur.com/a5mZGOU.jpg)

Have aforementioned parts on order and a long work week, so if all goes well and the optic and mount arrives, should make it shooting this weekend. 

Some initial thoughts and comments:

The case is nice - holds everything securely.
   
Manual
   Seems complete and well-done.  It has very good parts diagrams in the back.
   Apparently the MDR (and all DT?) warrantee is 3 years - didn't know that before. 
   It calls out a 'crisp 4.6lb trigger' - we'll see. :)
   calls out TBD on weight for 300BO and 5.56
      
Assembly
   Manual says to check bolt after moving charging handle rearwards -
   I'm not sure it's possible/east to remove covers with CH rearwards.
   The covers are marked for caliber but it doesn't initially seem possible to check bolt for caliber stamp w/out bolt removal.  Haven't done full breakdown, clean, lube yet.
         
   It appears the rifle was test-fired - may or may not have been with the barrel shipped, but see pic of case extractor insides.  Not a bad thing; just noting.
   (https://i.imgur.com/LBLCl5l.jpg)   
   Fat wrench won't go to 80in/lbs nor does it have the right bit, which I have in my Borka set as 'hw5'...and will go to 80in/lbs
   Be careful on the L wrench DT provides - can definitely use it to get to 80in/lbs, but can probably fairly easily go over the 30 in/lbs for the forearm T25 screws. 
   Diagram in manual for gas plug isn't obvious, at least to me, but straight up and down seems to be Normal.  1-7 o'clock from the front/1 click clockwise from plug vertical (from the front) is Adverse, 2 clicks clockwise 0s suppressed.  I left it on adverse for break-in noting comments from coldboremiracle in someone else's thread.
         
Overall/random (not-yet-fired)   
   Removing receiver from case - feels heavy but solid
   
   I personally really like the 'two tone' FDE - the receiver is lighter with the forearm and lower being darker, along with the cheek-rest pad. 
   I REALLY like the look in person.
   
   The buttpad is very nice, as is the overall fit and finish of the rifle.  It certainly looks and feels like a quality rifle.
   
   Moving the charging handle to rear from left side leaves a 'wiggle' - seems not up all the way.  Reaching over to the right side and pushing that side up moves left side up into 'fully up' position.  Initially I thought it was just 'weird', but working it a few times and consciously pushing up using the left side to charge the rifle seems like I was able to feel like I felt like I pushed up fully (on the left) but was then able to shake the rifle (not much) and get the charging handle to release hands-off.  Could be a break-in thing, dunno - but will be watching this.
   
   The forearm seems to be a bit fiddly going on- seems to be no magic beyond force to push the retaining pin out, but don't really want to force a new rifle, just in case there's a more obvious, non-forceful method.  You don't need to unscrew the screws very far, but some fiddling to get it lined up - minor, don't care, just mentioning. 
   
   Once on, the forearm seems suitably stiff for most sane/reasonably purposes, meaning I could induce only minor flex in it with some hand pressure.  Playing living room commando to see how it shoulders from low ready - those who like the C-Clamp style grip will wind up with your leading thumb right in front of the forward/front end of the rail, where the rail ramps downward slightly, but with near-zero chance of over-reaching and touching the barrel or grabbing any pic rail to tear up soft hands.  Pretty neat.  On the flip side, the inside portion of the lower foregrip 'stop' isn't bad, but maybe should have been filled in so a bit less semi-sharp edge.  Not a big issue.  Compared to the ways I mount my AUG, I'd be fine if the fore-arm were actually a bit shorter as well, although it seems about right for those liking the 'straight-arm c-clamp' type of hold.  I'd have no concerns for a light, light bipod, or even BUIS, although will see once I put the Atlas on it how much it will really flex under bipod pre-load.
          
   No concerns, as in zero, on the port covers coming off unintentionally, between the hooks up front + fairly high spring pressure in rear.  Not sure if I could remove easily with gloves, but maybe, and definitely with a spent case.  I'm more concerned about if the unique ejection will work over time w/out fault.
   
   That mag release is... STIFF.  I'd be fine if it were 1/2" lower and closer towards the trigger.  Seems the 'pressure' is from the rear pivot spring, as without a mag in it, you can press the release manually and it's stiff, combined with the front release not-broken-in.  Probably not a real issue if/when things loosen up.
      
   The trigger, out of box, 1/8th slop, 1/8th take-up to break, then maybe 3/16" post-break.  Manual reset (keeping trigger down, charge rifle, let up on trigger) is around 1/4" with a notable 'click' on reset.  Doesn't feel bad, but doesn't feel like 4.6# either.  I think someone mentioned it having a Glock-like trigger and I can sort of see that (not a NY trigger, maybe like their 5# bar).  Not awful, not great, not feeling like 5# but will grab my trigger pull tool tomorrow, and want to give the rifle a cleaning/re-lube first as well.

And, of course... ;)
(https://i.imgur.com/giCgrhi.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/p9hm22j.jpg)
(MDR is waiting for it's own Xmas presents - namely an optic mount and optic.. )

   


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: HBeretta on November 27, 2017, 11:28:56 PM
thanks for the write-up rtp.  always nice to read someone's opinion on a new product.  and i'd probably want a stiff mag release over one that easily depresses.  i can't speak for other owners but the mag release on my fs2000 is still stiff as hell to this day along with having to literally hang from the rifle to pull a mag out...lol...you get the idea.  at this point it's safe to say it's a quality rifle with many stating as much along with photos to back it up.  i'd like to set one up with a leupold mark 6 3-18x44 with an accu-tac for bench shooting.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: JesseJames38 on November 28, 2017, 12:30:20 AM
Pretty,   I seen there was a MDR on gunbroker today that sold for 3300  NIB with the desert tech optic and over the barrel suppressor handguard.   

As for me I am still waiting on a e-mail/phone call from EuroOptic saying that mine has arrived.   So far I have 6, 25 round pmags lined up for it. a Hartman MH1 optic ready to go.  Think I am going to try dabbling into a magnifier just have no idea which ones are good.  So far leaning towards the vortex as they seem to have a decent review of them.    AS for a sling I will just get a MS1 magpul sling  and buy one of the M lock front hooks for the hand guard and toss a sling swivel on the back QD point.   Down the road I may see if I can find something in the 8 to 15x mag for the high range.   

But here is me hoping that before the next year I will receive mine.  Maybe I will be lucky and get one of the milled ejectors/ chutes 


Jesse.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: INV136 on November 28, 2017, 10:45:43 AM
That's nice! Three year warranty is also a bonus as I was expecting only a one year warranty.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on November 28, 2017, 04:46:47 PM
thanks for the write-up rtp.  always nice to read someone's opinion on a new product.  and i'd probably want a stiff mag release over one that easily depresses.  i can't speak for other owners but the mag release on my fs2000 is still stiff as hell to this day along with having to literally hang from the rifle to pull a mag out...lol...you get the idea.  at this point it's safe to say it's a quality rifle with many stating as much along with photos to back it up.  i'd like to set one up with a leupold mark 6 3-18x44 with an accu-tac for bench shooting.

I came very close to picking up a BF deal on a Leupold Mk8 1.1-8, but decided to go with the DMR2 for load workup.  I want to see what SHOT brings, as it seems Nightforce may be bringing out a 1-8 (although unsure if they will ever make a solid reticle for FFP), GPO has an interesting 1-8x FFP coming out in March-ish with German glass, and failing nothing else, the Minox ZP8 or maybe a Trijicon 1-8x mil/mil. 

My only real concern at this point is reliability and the 'oddity' mentioned RE: charging handle seeming to not always lock solidly.  And of course - how does it shoot/accuracy? 

Ordered a tan Urban ERT sling w/QDs - sadly, without a discount code so somewhat $ but I really like their wider webbing (more like a seatbelt strap).

Seems to be a 'race' at the moment - whether or not ammo + optic will show up for this weekend or not. 
With the short-ass barrel, I expect fully to 'need' a forward-facing FH like the Pig, or something - not sure what yet, but not worth buying it until I see how it shoots - in the worst case (it's not a shooter or not reliable), I'll use the ammo and the rest of the gear ordered, but don't need another .308 FH/brake.

Playing around with the rifle, I think I made the right move in not going with the Inforce.  Undoubtedly it could be made to work depending on hand positioning, but I think the TLR-1 HL with remote switch will work well. 


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: readr1 on November 28, 2017, 09:01:37 PM
 
With the short-ass barrel, I expect fully to 'need' a forward-facing FH like the Pig, or something - not sure what yet, but not worth buying it until I see how it shoots - in the worst case (it's not a shooter or not reliable), I'll use the ammo and the rest of the gear ordered, but don't need another .308 FH/brake.


Just a heads for everyone else, the standard hand guard is a very tight fit with a SilencerCo ASR muzzle brake on there. So if you want  something like the "Pig" you will have to take it off the barrel before you can break the rifle down, and you might not be able to get to the gas adjust knob without removal.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on November 28, 2017, 09:09:05 PM
 
With the short-ass barrel, I expect fully to 'need' a forward-facing FH like the Pig, or something - not sure what yet, but not worth buying it until I see how it shoots - in the worst case (it's not a shooter or not reliable), I'll use the ammo and the rest of the gear ordered, but don't need another .308 FH/brake.


Just a heads for everyone else, the standard hand guard is a very tight fit with a SilencerCo ASR muzzle brake on there. So if you want  something like the "Pig" you will have to take it off the barrel before you can break the rifle down, and you might not be able to get to the gas adjust knob without removal.

Good info, likely saved me some $. Will check measurements before I buy.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: Chief Master on November 28, 2017, 11:15:43 PM
Playing around with the rifle, I think I made the right move in not going with the Inforce.  Undoubtedly it could be made to work depending on hand positioning, but I think the TLR-1 HL with remote switch will work well.

rtp, why do you think the Inforce WML would be a worse choice than a Streamlight with a switch? I was planning on getting A WML for my MDR (whenever it arrives), so I'm curious what you noticed as you played around with it. Thanks for the write-up!


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on November 29, 2017, 12:48:31 AM
Playing around with the rifle, I think I made the right move in not going with the Inforce.  Undoubtedly it could be made to work depending on hand positioning, but I think the TLR-1 HL with remote switch will work well.

rtp, why do you think the Inforce WML would be a worse choice than a Streamlight with a switch? I was planning on getting A WML for my MDR (whenever it arrives), so I'm curious what you noticed as you played around with it. Thanks for the write-up!

Depends on your support hand positioning really.  On an AR even a straight-armed or nearly so C clamp can still leave some rail in front of your hand, where one could position the WML very nicely.  On the MDR, if you prefer that support hand positioning (which you may not), your hand position is effectively 'out of rail' to the front.

On my AUG, I suppose I used the 'Tavor multiple points of contact' before the Tavor was out..meaning my support hand usually cradles the receiver and front section of trigger guard, elbow closer in for stability.  Using that positioning, my light switch is on the right side of the stock for nearly perfect positioning.

Not sure exactly where my natural grip will wind up on the MDR yet... Will need some blasting time, a few matches (likely not until moving back to a 1-N optic), to sort out versus prone higher magnification playing around.  Moving the support hand rearwards a bit is comfortable enough so maybe a fully-forward top mounted WML, possibly with a lower rail mounted stop, would work out well.  For casual shooting, none of it matters... and while matches and training classes aren't the same as targets shooting back, you still get adrenaline going and tend to go with less precise motor movements, e.g. Cupped support hand to receiver, slide back until feel front of handguard, close grip (AUG) or support hand to hand guard loosely, slide to stop, close grip (MDR example). Either one is under a second in real time, without 'fiddling' to remember something like 'oh s***, need the light, where is it again,' and needing to reposition because adrenaline and gross motor movements didn't wind up with it 'where your hands went.'

Hope that makes sense..typing on a tablet blows chunks and won't really know for sure until some time spent in non-slow fire, drills, etc.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: miniwini on November 29, 2017, 11:41:54 AM
4 years? Omg you are kidding me :D hehe


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: Chief Master on November 29, 2017, 01:31:03 PM
Makes sense, thanks!


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on November 29, 2017, 01:46:51 PM
Makes sense, thanks!

For a visual, you can check out coldboremiracle 's latest YT vid, as he moves his support hand around a fair amount.  You'll see him at one point C-clamp like showing you're 'out of rail up front' as I tried to describe, as well as more 'relaxed' hand positioning where the WML may work out well.  YMMV as always.

https://youtu.be/xULQ05QTfQo (https://youtu.be/xULQ05QTfQo)

Just adding notes as I think of them randomly. 
There's a fair amount of white lithium grease-like lube out of the box, at least on the scissor ejector mechanism.  Maybe CBM will weigh in on 'remove and replace' or leave for some reason for break-in, otherwise I'll probably remove it and replace with my preferred grease-lube.

Still waiting on my optic (and ammo!) to ship, which is pissing me off, as it means unlikely to get to meaningful shooting this weekend unless magic happens soon. :-/  From several videos and looking at the MDR, you can probably go with rings vs a one-piece mount, although in some CBM videos and/or other pics, the front ring on various one-piece mounts is pretty close or seemingly at the last receiver pic rail slot, so it's possible some longer-eye-relief optics may still need a one-piece mount...guessing note many.

The receiver is steel, and fairly thick at that, so I'd assume the receiver itself is unlikely to exhibit any flex if using rings..so will sort once I have the optic and temporary mount in hand and likely go to rings.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: Articlion on November 29, 2017, 02:06:50 PM
"The receiver is steel, and fairly thick at that"
No wonder why we are in 8 pound land using steel for the receiver i thought they were going to by aluminum but i guess that is another change that no one was made aware of till now.  ???


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on November 30, 2017, 10:31:46 PM
Somewhat bummed.  Optic still not shipped from OP, and looks like ammo arrives sometime Sat which was shooting day.  M-lok rail section to mount the Atlas also maybe for Sat...by 8pm.  Had a backup 3-9 optic but w/out ammo it's looking like will wait for ammo, optic etc. for next weekend. 

I know it - first world problems...lots of people waiting on MDRs and was looking forward to putting it through some places this weekend.  If the ammo makes it before 2pm, may still go for it, otherwise will just break it down, clean and lube, measure trigger pull and get it ready for the next weekend. Meh.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: pwillie on December 01, 2017, 04:35:30 PM
Somewhat bummed.  Optic still not shipped from OP, and looks like ammo arrives sometime Sat which was shooting day.  M-lok rail section to mount the Atlas also maybe for Sat...by 8pm.  Had a backup 3-9 optic but w/out ammo it's looking like will wait for ammo, optic etc. for next weekend. 

I know it - first world problems...lots of people waiting on MDRs and was looking forward to putting it through some places this weekend.  If the ammo makes it before 2pm, may still go for it, otherwise will just break it down, clean and lube, measure trigger pull and get it ready for the next weekend. Meh.
Ordered a scope from them yesterday only to get this today, "Estimated to ship within 7-18 days." Guess it wasn't in stock. :(

No local retailers with .308?  Not sure I could stand waiting another week.   :excited!


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on December 01, 2017, 10:47:39 PM
Somewhat bummed.  Optic still not shipped from OP, and looks like ammo arrives sometime Sat which was shooting day.  M-lok rail section to mount the Atlas also maybe for Sat...by 8pm.  Had a backup 3-9 optic but w/out ammo it's looking like will wait for ammo, optic etc. for next weekend. 

I know it - first world problems...lots of people waiting on MDRs and was looking forward to putting it through some places this weekend.  If the ammo makes it before 2pm, may still go for it, otherwise will just break it down, clean and lube, measure trigger pull and get it ready for the next weekend. Meh.
Ordered a scope from them yesterday only to get this today, "Estimated to ship within 7-18 days." Guess it wasn't in stock. :(

No local retailers with .308?  Not sure I could stand waiting another week.   :excited!

Yeah, lol - I think I've been burned/delayed on every optics order from Optics Planet, while a 'maybe it'll show up one day' order for an OOS AUG AAC flash hider showed up within days, 

I've got some family stuff coming up so as annoying as it is, would rather go out for the day next weekend with the rifle set up and full set of ammo in hand.  Otherwise I'm limited to blaster ammo, my SMK175 BTHP loads and maybe a massively overpriced single box of match ammo...if I can find it, no bipod mount, etc..and it may be multiple weeks before I get it out again.. Seriously frustrating but would rather go with ammo selection in hand and spend the day breaking it in how ID plan Ed.

Meanwhile, I've got to eat some crow as I mid-size, definitely an AL upper receiver, not steel. Could have worn I'd read it in the manual, was surprised but didn't have a magnet handy.

I did send a few Qs to DT via their support form late last night, mostly trivial but also noting the charging handle behavior.  They called back twice today but was in work meetings so called back..wound up reaching Ryan, who was pretty helpful.  Sounds like DT or he has seen a few rifle CHs as I described, including a new one for a demo shoot, which broke in nicely over a day of spring before a bunch of folks got hands on.  So will go ahead and strip/re-lube it tomorrow, run 100+ rounds through it and see if it sorts itself.  That was the only issue of possible significant concern I had beyond the usual - performance and reliability.  So a solid CS experience so far, hopefully not needed 'for real' in the future but was a good experience.

Chatted about breakin and lube vs grease, which of course can be a near-religious debate for some, thus no specifics in the manual.

It seems remotely possible the ammo and bipod mount may show up before too late tomorrow if not the optic so will see.
If somehow


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: whiskey91lima on December 02, 2017, 07:17:26 PM
Did anyone get the RDS from Desert Tech with their MDR? Any info on the quality of the optic? Does it ship with the gun?


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on December 04, 2017, 04:35:46 PM
Minor progress - some stuff made it today.  Still waiting on optic, optic mount, light and 3 slot pic rail.
OP still remains at 1-8 days on the DMRii - looks like the non-illuminated were in stock, waiting on Bushnell for the illuminated.  Meh.
Have ammo finally at least, and a way to mount the bipod, so worst case becomes a borrowed optic if Bushnell and/or OP doesn't ship my optic soon.
(https://i.imgur.com/XvfPkB5.jpg?1)


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: Glorfindel on December 06, 2017, 04:05:58 PM
Still no gun to wear it, but I have all the outfits and jewelry collected now that my Leupold finally came.

Optics - VX-6HD 3-18x44 with Bobro mount (Planning to add Shield CQS with offset mount on the gas block picatinny)

Suppressor - OSS Gen IV. Already have suppressor handguard.

Sling - VTAC 2-point padded

Bipod - Atlas V8 with QD MLOK mount - I don't expect this will be mounted 100% of the time, hence the QD.

Weapon light -  LaserMax Manta Ray; not sure if this is going to work well with the outsize handguard.

Magazines - Lancer 20 rounders and a couple of 25ers.


The products of three years of anticipation and planning for this rifle to arrive. Thankfully, everything but the handguard is transferrable to a POF Revolution if I end up throwing in the towel or the rifle is not everything I hoped and dreamed of.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on December 06, 2017, 07:15:16 PM
Suppressor - OSS Gen IV. Already have suppressor handguard.

I'm sure we ALL want to know the results on that combo! :)

Looks like possible snow Friday but still planning on making it shooting either Sat or Sunday at this point.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: Glorfindel on December 06, 2017, 08:22:13 PM
No idea how it'll run with the gun, of course, but I've confirmed that the gen IV fits just fine under the oversize handguard if that's what you mean.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on December 06, 2017, 09:49:50 PM
No idea how it'll run with the gun, of course, but I've confirmed that the gen IV fits just fine under the oversize handguard if that's what you mean.

Overall performance of the OSS plus on the MDR as there aren't many of either out there.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: Mr. Business on December 07, 2017, 03:01:47 PM
No idea how it'll run with the gun, of course, but I've confirmed that the gen IV fits just fine under the oversize handguard if that's what you mean.
I have the same. I used the supplied short M-Lok screws to mount a sling mount (to be a Harris bipod base) and a 3 o-clock rail section for an Inforce weapon light. The suppressor has maybe 2mm clearance left and when mounted on the barrel might actually hit the little M-Lok tabs. I can always dremel down the tabs I guess. Also have 8 20rd .308 Pmags and a Primary Arms 1-8x Platinum waiting for my MDR.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on December 13, 2017, 07:26:22 PM
So USPS temporarily 'lost' the optic mount, sitting at USPS since Dec 2nd, then just 'delayed' until I filed a complaint, then it showed up magically yesterday.

Optics Planet - ordered 'in stock' Nov 26th.  Eventually my order email updates to 1-8 days.  2x 8 days later, my online order still shows 'waiting on item.'  Calling them said 'maybe end of Jan.'  Awesome.  :-[ :-[ :-[

Meanwhile, I got a decent deal on some bulk 147gr bulk M80 PMC ball ammo for blasting rounds. 

Have  bunch of family stuff coming up so my window to go shoot is pretty much this weekend, which will have to be with a borrowed lower-powered optic. 
This is frustrating.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: kyle@eurooptic on December 14, 2017, 03:04:03 PM
I dont know what scope exactly you are looking for, but if you want to get a DMR2 with the H59 reticle, I have them in stock and would ship it out to you today if we can place an order in the next couple hours. Also feel free to call and ask for Kyle. I will see what I can do for you on price you can reach me at 570-368-3920. (https://www.eurooptic.com/BU-ET36215H-Bushnell-Elite-Tactical-HDMR-II--35-21X50-H59-RE.aspx?utm_source=eoic2017&utm_medium=KJP)


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on December 14, 2017, 07:12:45 PM
I dont know what scope exactly you are looking for, but if you want to get a DMR2 with the H59 reticle, I have them in stock and would ship it out to you today if we can place an order in the next couple hours. Also feel free to call and ask for Kyle. I will see what I can do for you on price you can reach me at 570-368-3920. (https://www.eurooptic.com/BU-ET36215H-Bushnell-Elite-Tactical-HDMR-II--35-21X50-H59-RE.aspx?utm_source=eoic2017&utm_medium=KJP)


Sadly, too much cash floating around out there at the moment waiting on stuff to arrive.
It's a DMR2 G3 illuminated, although I just recently found out the illuminated reticle version has a thicker reticle, so now digging out info on that. :-/


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on December 15, 2017, 11:39:15 PM
Amusingly, today I got a tracking # for my optic, which was supposed to show up 'maybe late Jan.'  Looks like they expedited into 2 day shipping, which is nice, all things considered.  However, this weekend is when I have to shoot. 

So options were a friend's 3-9x or sacrificing my bolt gun's zero and using my ERS.
Crap phone pic showing which way that went.
(https://i.imgur.com/WQxzvFv.jpg)

A few things discovered. 
With rings, the ERS is a tight fit vs the rail as you can see in the pic.  In an ideal world, it would be forward another ~2" give or take, but can't do it.
I have no intent on keeping those rings on but didn't want to swap the optic into another mount as well - I have an Aero lightweight 1.5" centerline one pice mount I'll use when the DMR2 shows up, but now I've finally got an optic on it, I can say AR height is right.  The badger rings are 1.26" and are too low for my cheek weld.  Not terrible, usable, but far from spot on when you close your eyes, shoulder the rifle and then open them.  I expect 1.5" to be pretty close to 'right,' and at least with an optic of similar length (13"  w/out sunshade) and length behind the turrets, at least a mild cantilever mount will be the ticket. 

3 slot m-lok added and loc-tited up front for the Atlas.  The Atlas is 'backwards' from how I normally mount it on the bolt gun with the QD lever forward so I can still hold the rifle with the bipod mounted and slide my support hand forward without getting poked by the QD lever. 

Still dicking around on sling attach points/locations.  My AUG is near perfect w/convertible sling and GHW takedown replacement in single point mode, and the Manticore optic mount as the forward sling point due the the AUG's balance.  Will work itself out when I get some blasting time and drills in.

I'm hoping I can get away without doing a 'full' internal zero reset on the ERS as I'm going from a 20MOA base to 0MOA on the MDR.  Should be good there as I had around 20mils of upward travel, and shouldn't need more that 5-7 to offset going back to 0MOA. 

Still can't find the damned trigger gauge, and need to check chrono batteries.  Managed to find the half dozen Magpul Gen 3 SR25 mags I'd stashed ages ago for it - and lol because I bought them at a good price in sand.  Have a handful of random other mags but nowhere to be found at the moment.  Yeah, 'sand' is pretty much nowhere close to the MDR coloring but nothing a rattle can can't fix if I decide I care. ;)

If all goes well, I should have at least a few hours of shooting it tomorrow.



Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on December 16, 2017, 09:35:30 PM
So, made it shooting.  
Some good, some annoying.  
Made it through ~80 rounds today with the MDR.  Zero failures.  This is good.
Located chrono and brought it with, but ran out of light - meh.  Next time.
The eye relief and optic height with my ERS and rings was pretty crappy - just too low and rearward, so after rough zero decided to just blast some rounds.  The optic I'd planned for the rifle shows up next week and I only have so much factory ammo, so will run through it with a full day, chrono, and optic mounted further forward.  

Here was the planned ammo lineup:
(https://i.imgur.com/yaVWtLA.jpg)

Had to zero the optic coming from a 20MOA base to 0MOA on the MDR.  
Used random 1980s-ish milsurp 147gr M80 ball, initially at 25yds.  Target is crawling up towards zero and multiple shots overlapping during zeroing and random fun/putting rounds through.
(https://i.imgur.com/r0Hc2bq.jpg)

Random target at 100.  5 shots M80 ball and had planned on doing 5 shots 155gr Amax, but managed to load only 4 Amax.  
The ball was 2MOA + a known pulled shot - just really need to get optic moved forward and up to get comfortable.  
Amax ran about MOA but only 4 shots.  

Will wait for optic to show and do a full day vs the match ammo - I don't buy factory ammo often so this is it before I work up loads for it.  
The trigger seems to have smoothed slightly, or maybe it's me.  Still need to find my damned trigger pull gauge.
Other than optic positioning, the rifle handles well and you can certainly tell it's not a 5.56 but it's not brutal.  Oh yeah - and the mag release still sucks/is stiff.  I ran the gun a bit wet for break-in but will need to poke at the mag release.  

My buddy with his Tavor said the MDR makes the Tavor look like a toy fit-and-finish-wise.  Well, except for this, which is the charging handle weirdness I tried to describe previously.  DT said they've seen it and it should break in.  Dunno - will send them the video and see what they say.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbVR7GLICjg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbVR7GLICjg)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbVR7GLICjg

Considering I haven't run through the rest of the match ammo w/sorted optic yet, I'm happy-ish but concerned about the CH and the mag release.  
More once I get the new optic mounted up and target and chrono time, likely in 2 weeks or so.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on December 16, 2017, 11:37:50 PM
Oops - missed the actual image.
5 shots 1980s ball, 4 shots amax 155gr.
(https://i.imgur.com/i3UquAy.png)


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on December 17, 2017, 12:21:46 AM
Did a bit of quick poking on the mag release.  There's  a long pivoting-yet-captive system..one pivot and spring up front, then a flat bar running to the rear with another bar connecting via a pin, which pushes against an angled ramp which pushes the mag release outward as the bar 'crawls' up/along the ramp.  The release itself contacting the mag is part of the black horizontal piece a bit below the left side ort cover plate.

If I hold the rear piece 'depressed' manually, it's effectively disconnected from the rest of the linkage and then the front mag release still has tension but moves pretty smoothly...so it's pointing to the ramp geometry, tension or springs, something causing excess friction on the rear portion of the release. 

Need to look at further but you can hear and feel a bit of a distinct click when actuating without a mag in place.  The linkage seems to be guided well and without flexing.



Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on December 25, 2017, 11:04:53 PM
No word yet from DT this time around, after sending the video a week+ showing the charging handle issue(won't lock back on left hand side slot). Will call this week and see if anyone's working.

Optic showed up, so mounted it in the Aero precision ultralight.  Have the mount fully forward on the receiver with the DMR2.  Need to ensure I can pull the barrel and it not being grabbed by the front of the mount, or move it back a notch.  Tomorrow.

The eye relief and height is noticeably better now vs using the rings and optic from my bolt gun, which had been forcing rearward positioning.

Should be heading out to shoot this weekend with the rest of the match ammo once I sight in the new optic.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: EWTHeckman on December 26, 2017, 09:55:10 AM
Thanks for keeping us current, rtp. I, for one, appreciate it!


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: Spartan on December 26, 2017, 11:46:00 AM
 Thanks for your coverage of the MDR disappointed didnít show up underneath the Christmas tree maybe next year


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on December 26, 2017, 05:36:38 PM
Thanks for keeping us current, rtp. I, for one, appreciate it!

Sure thing. 

Here's the MDR with Aero Precision Ultralight mount (1.5" to optic centerline, typical AR height mount) and the DMR2 with proper eye relief for me in prone and standing.  Truth be told, I could even go slightly more forward, but you can see the front of the Aero mount has some slight bit covering the barrel rail, and not a whole lot of forward movement left on the mount/scope tube.  Haven't broken the rifle back down yet but will need to see if it the very front of the mount will interfere with barrel removal as is.  If so, will make a small relief in the front inside of the mount.

(https://i.imgur.com/mdJDbnV.jpg)


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: pwillie on December 27, 2017, 12:20:40 AM
That's downright sexy!  :o


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on January 04, 2018, 12:13:35 AM
Never got a reply to the second online ticket created, but I did get a quick response via email.
Looks like it's going back to DT, shipping there on my dime - which I'm not thrilled about as the charging handle issue was reported to them via web ticket and phone before the first shot fired.

As I'm stuck in the lovely freezing temperatures for this weekend, and still have a ton of factory match ammo to shoot, going to shoot the weekend of the 13th before sending it off to DT.

I'm hoping this is a once and done thing, as yeah, I'm irked about paying to send them a brand new not-quite-right out of the box rifle.

Will see how I feel after accuracy testing and the round trip to DT. 
Next update should be accuracy testing on the 13th or 14th as long as the weather warms up at least into the 40s.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on January 09, 2018, 08:52:50 PM
Got my first set of Aadland caps for the DMR2i on the MDR, along with a second set for the Butlers Creeks on my ERS.  Pricey for lens covers but certainly nice.  Love the lay fully flat vs trying to find just the right positioning on the BC ocular cap so it's not annoying when shooting. 

Weather has finally thawed out so should be a go to shoot up the factory match ammo this weekend before sending back to DT for charging handle evaluation.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on January 21, 2018, 08:52:17 PM
A mixed day at the range. 
Ran another 80 or so rounds through the MDR today, before it's going back for the charging handle issue to be looked at. 

Ran on normal gas setting today versus adverse for the first time out.  Had one jam.  Not entirely sure how it happened, but it seems like it was trying to feed two rounds, or one was in the ejection-side 'clip' when I loaded another mag - not positive.  Dropped mag, popped ejection chute-side panel off, cycled rifle, pulled live round out of ejection clip, back and running.

WARNING to those planning on running a bipod on the MDR.  It needs a backing plate.  My m-lok pic rail pulled through the forearm not once, but twice today, with low amounts of preload.  Wasn't thrilled to see this, especially the second time (moved a slot rearwards, forearm removed to ensure proper engagement.. ), but will see what DT says about it. 

Optic (DMR-2i) and mount (Aero Precision Ultralight) were on the rifle, Loc-tited and torqued to 20#-lbs.  Aero has somewhat conflicting guidance as in one place they mention 15# and in another PDF they say 'not over 25#' and don't differentiate between rail and ring.  I usually use 15# on most rings, higher on the base, but split the difference and went 20#.  Yeah so - after sighting in and a mediocre-ish bunch of different rounds through the pipe, I noticed the optic had slid in the rings. 

PPU 'match' was crap, and didn't have great luck with FGMM, although I can't say for sure at what point the optic started to shift.  Amax 155gr and the Hornady 178gr BTHP match seemed to do OK.  Will re-check ring torque and targets tomorrow. 



Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on January 21, 2018, 10:37:44 PM
Forearm pic.  The M-lok rail was previously in the most forward slot, put on with the rail removed to ensure proper lockup, and Loc-tited.  Atlas bipod was attached.

The forward slot held out for ~110 rounds or so, maybe a bit more (~80 from the first session + some on this one), then the front part started feeling sloppy pulling through, so removed the rail and forearm and moved the rail to the next rearward slot.  Was shooting prone on a mat with bipod leg 'catches,' and you'd better believe I was gentle on the pre-load the second time around, but looks like a crack between the first and second slots - so this lasted perhaps 20-25 rounds before I felt some wobble from the front of the rail/bipod and removed it altogether.

Note - I'm somewhat surprised by this, although it's possible I shouldn't be.  The forearm feels (felt?) solid enough, but it's still a type of poly.  I don't think a typical finger/hand-stop would cause any issues, although I'm not sure how you could/'should' otherwise mount a bipod, other than perhaps cutting a sheet of aluminum as a backer for the Mlok plates.  Guess I need another fore-arm.  Meh.

(https://i.imgur.com/WplZifT.jpg)

The scope slip...is now more annoying.  Pic showing the movement.  Put on w/Borka at 20-in-lbs, and Loc-tited.  Torque was applied incrementally, and re-checking each along the way to remove any minor binding or false readings (snug, then to 15, check/re-check, then to 20, check, re-check).  Just put the Borka back on them to see WTF - base screws all remained at torque along with 3 of the 4 ring screws.  1 ring screw moved a tiny bit,  as in no more than a couple of degrees movement, so it was likely around 18in/lbs-ish.  Pretty surprised on this one.  I've got a Spuhr coming (eventually - Optics Planet order, we'll see) but will mail Aero Precision with the pic and see what they have to say. 

Meh day all around.
(https://i.imgur.com/h5TRN6V.jpg)


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: Potss on January 21, 2018, 10:42:53 PM
Damn, so the handguards cannot even handle bipods?  That is insane on a $2500 rifle.  Just....ugh, so sick of DTA cost cutting.

Anyways, sorry for your bad experience, hope Aero makes it right at least.  I've heard their CS has gone down hill somewhat.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: Box on January 22, 2018, 12:00:13 AM
The few MDR owners actually out there are certainly beta testers.  The MDR seems to have a looong way to go.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on January 22, 2018, 12:16:16 AM
No clue what Aero really can do, other than swap mounts or tell me to go to 25in/lbs. Their doc has all caps to not exceed 25, while I'm pretty sure the product page mentioned 13.  Actually, just checked -15, so...... Really no clue but I'm not thinking this optic sells later as 'no ring marks.' :-/  Sent Aero the pic and details, will see.  Wish the Spuhr would show up already..maybe it will by the time I get the rifle back from DT.  Will see if I can buff out the ring marks on the optic, otherwise guess I'll be doing a cerakote air job on a brand new optic and take the resell hit if I eventually get rid of it.

Can't begin to guess on the forearm.  The screws were torqued and Loc-tited there as well, with the rail being installed with the forearm off.  The Loctite had set up well enough it had a chunk of forearm solidly clamped on 'break-through' and needed to grab the multi-tool to grab the backside nut to unscrew... Bipods inherently have some lever effect to them, but............ No issues with the same bipod and similar rail section on my heavier R700 in a BC stock, which I usually run the bipod higher with (which would have more of a lever effect not extended or single click extended on the MDR).  I doubt there would be an issue with a light mount or AFG etc., but sort of miffed at the moment as there's really no other way to mount a bipod on the MDR...





Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: Chief Master on January 22, 2018, 03:14:17 AM
Iíve seen Coldboremiracle running a bipod on MDRs in a lot of his videos. I wonder what the difference is between your setup and his, and if that made any difference in bipod compatibility.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: maleante on January 22, 2018, 11:37:05 AM
That forearm plastic appears to be of a more brittle type than what I would have expected. If the gun takes a fall, is it going to break and chip like that in other areas too?


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on January 22, 2018, 12:08:50 PM
Iíve seen Coldboremiracle running a bipod on MDRs in a lot of his videos. I wonder what the difference is between your setup and his, and if that made any difference in bipod compatibility.

True enough.  Don't know; perhaps he'll chime in.  The rail used was a 5 slot MI metal M-lok, with two screws/M-lok backers.  I suppose using a longer rail section might have made it last slightly longer by slightly lengthening the 'flex' length, but seems like you have to go to 12-15 slots long to add a third/additional screw - which is really too long IMO; at least I would prefer to minimize the rail section to not slide my support hand across it when not prone w/bipod (yeah sure, rail covers..but I prefer not to use them unless a pre-existing fixed rail length is annoying me). 


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: sampitt on January 22, 2018, 01:16:15 PM
What the actual f***.  The hand guard shouldn't be that brittle. 


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: kfeltenberger on January 22, 2018, 05:53:38 PM
What the actual f***.  The hand guard shouldn't be that brittle. 

That was pretty much my first thought when I saw this.  Looking at the way it failed, it almost appears as if the polymer shattered rather than fractured.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: hillbillyjim on January 22, 2018, 09:35:38 PM
Thatís pretty pathetic for a 2000+ firearm

Canít believe Iíve been invested in thus for two years


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: Sdevante on January 22, 2018, 09:46:23 PM
These pics make that line in the sand move that much closer.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: pwillie on January 22, 2018, 10:02:32 PM
These pics make that line in the sand move that much closer.
^Truth  :(


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: Glorfindel on January 22, 2018, 10:12:22 PM
Well that ain't cool. Still hanging on to my order, though. I still figure that at worst, I can unload it for a profit or bare minimum at least not lose any money on the sale.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: Ditcher on January 22, 2018, 10:17:08 PM
Yeah thats pretty crapy.  Its even cracked from one slot to the other.
Can't say I even seen anything like that happen to a magpul plastic handgurd.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on January 22, 2018, 10:33:20 PM
Will withhold judgements until after I get a break at work and can reach DT.
Either it's OK for real-world bipod use, at which point they need to look at their supplier/forearm material used, or build in some reinforcement....or I got an 'out of spec' part.

I doubt DT does their own injection molding or plastic parts, so yeah, it's possible I got 'a bad one.'
Will send them the Pic tomorrow and follow up with a phone call, although if I don't get through, I'm unable to play phone tag with them tomorrow.

I am somewhat glad the 5.56 isn't shipping at the moment as I still have $ on one, and want to see how this is resolved before final decision there along with likely a $2k optic...


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: AF Gunner on January 23, 2018, 12:45:57 PM
I found this in the comments of the Facebook post on the MDR owners page about this failure.

Guy said he is starting work on an aftermarket aluminum hand-guard. He is the very early stages of modeling, at least that's what it looks like from his posts and comments. His website is www.lifeindustries.net (http://www.lifeindustries.net) and/or Lucky Irishman firearms on FB. He recently did a one for the KelTec RDB.

So even though there are very few guns in our hands there is already a trigger, handguard, and 6.5 barrel being worked up. Maybe time to start an aftermarket thread.

Gunner


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: thehun on January 23, 2018, 01:24:47 PM
At $2300+ dollars...this crap shouldn't happen...

I've never had a $35 dollar Magpul handguard fail like that when using a bipod...

I do not think DT is putting near the quality into the MDR as they do with their bolt guns...


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: Ditcher on January 23, 2018, 01:58:29 PM
Yeah at this price point you should only be worried about what scope or red dot you are going to buy for it.  Not which after market part do I need to buy first so the rifle acts the way it should.

That Tavor 7 is looking pretty nice from John Video.  Just saying..


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: Clarke-Sensei on January 23, 2018, 02:01:27 PM
I didn't expect to see damage like that on a rifle of that price, especially due to a bipod mounted on the handguard. It's something I'd expect from the pump of a KSG with an aluminum or steel VFG on the poly rail.

I hope it is only a one-off incident.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: sampitt on January 23, 2018, 03:33:58 PM
I didn't expect to see damage like that on a rifle of that price, especially due to a bipod mounted on the handguard. It's something I'd expect from the pump of a KSG with an aluminum or steel VFG on the poly rail.

I hope it is only a one-off incident.

Granted, it's a sample size of one, but these parts aren't one-offs, so I am thinking this may be a BIG problem unless they go with another polymer formula going  forward.  I hope a lightweight, affordable, aluminium option becomes available in the very near future.  Maybe manticore gets this memo and good things happen.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: Clarke-Sensei on January 23, 2018, 03:35:24 PM
I didn't expect to see damage like that on a rifle of that price, especially due to a bipod mounted on the handguard. It's something I'd expect from the pump of a KSG with an aluminum or steel VFG on the poly rail.

I hope it is only a one-off incident.

Granted, it's a sample size of one, but these parts aren't one-offs, so I am thinking this may be a BIG problem unless they go with another polymer formula going  forward.  I hope a lightweight, affordable, aluminium option becomes available in the very near future.  Maybe manticore gets this memo and good things happen.

We still need to see DT get these out in numbers, it's still early to rely on the aftermarket to correct DT's issues.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on January 23, 2018, 08:20:02 PM
I found this in the comments of the Facebook post on the MDR owners page about this failure.

Guy said he is starting work on an aftermarket aluminum hand-guard. He is the very early stages of modeling, at least that's what it looks like from his posts and comments. His website is www.lifeindustries.net (http://www.lifeindustries.net) and/or Lucky Irishman firearms on FB. He recently did a one for the KelTec RDB.

Figures. :D 

I rarely do FB and haven't posted the forearm pic/issue anywhere other than here and sent to DT today. 
I only sent the pic to Jeff, who is handling the case (vs @general DT support, etc.) at this point, and didn't have time to call them today.  Guessing most are to SHOT - no reply as of yet.  I may get a break tomorrow afternoon to try giving a call and seeing where that goes.  Doesn't immediately matter as the rifle will be headed back their way shortly.



Title: Re: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: ES Tactical on January 24, 2018, 01:42:06 AM
I found this in the comments of the Facebook post on the MDR owners page about this failure.

Guy said he is starting work on an aftermarket aluminum hand-guard. He is the very early stages of modeling, at least that's what it looks like from his posts and comments. His website is www.lifeindustries.net (http://www.lifeindustries.net) and/or Lucky Irishman firearms on FB. He recently did a one for the KelTec RDB.

Figures. :D 

I rarely do FB and haven't posted the forearm pic/issue anywhere other than here and sent to DT today. 
I only sent the pic to Jeff, who is handling the case (vs @general DT support, etc.) at this point, and didn't have time to call them today.  Guessing most are to SHOT - no reply as of yet.  I may get a break tomorrow afternoon to try giving a call and seeing where that goes.  Doesn't immediately matter as the rifle will be headed back their way shortly.
Jeff is at SHOT, so contacting him direct might be slow this week.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk



Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: BC13 on January 24, 2018, 11:20:46 AM
Thank you for information.
Anyone looking to order OTB guard may want to wait. 


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: Sdevante on January 24, 2018, 01:22:03 PM
Thank you for information.
Anyone looking to order OTB guard may want to wait. 

Wasn't it the stock handguard that broke? I'm sure they use the same plastic formula, but perhaps different shape affects the bipod differently?


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on January 24, 2018, 03:32:39 PM
Thank you for information.
Anyone looking to order OTB guard may want to wait. 

Wasn't it the stock handguard that broke? I'm sure they use the same plastic formula, but perhaps different shape affects the bipod differently?

Stock hand guard, not the OTB/suppressor model.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: Potss on January 27, 2018, 12:36:35 PM
Just some additional data, looks like a guy over on the hide didn't have handguard breaking issues yet, but does have a crappy trigger and significant gas in the face, as well as poor groups (so far): http://forum.snipershide.com/threads/desert-tech-mdr-6-5-creedmoor.6802224/#post-6878186


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: thehun on January 27, 2018, 01:10:30 PM
What is DT doing about the trigger?

I know almost everyone complained about it that its not what it was promised.



Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: HBeretta on January 27, 2018, 01:17:25 PM
Just some additional data, looks like a guy over on the hide didn't have handguard breaking issues yet, but does have a crappy trigger and significant gas in the face, as well as poor groups (so far): http://forum.snipershide.com/threads/desert-tech-mdr-6-5-creedmoor.6802224/#post-6878186

I think the hand guard breaking is a fluke...plenty of videos of DT firing the gun with a bipod and every one of CBMís vids...the same.  Things happen...just have DT send another.  Hell the fs2000 charging handles were so fragile, broke easily and was prevalent enough for someone to resolve with the judochop.  And, thatís ďFN - most battle proven firearms in the worldĒ...and the tuna did see LE/mil contracts.

Once they resolve the gas issue, clamp down on production...fix the charging handle...time to get the checkbook out.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: Sdevante on January 27, 2018, 01:40:43 PM
Just some additional data, looks like a guy over on the hide didn't have handguard breaking issues yet, but does have a crappy trigger and significant gas in the face, as well as poor groups (so far): http://forum.snipershide.com/threads/desert-tech-mdr-6-5-creedmoor.6802224/#post-6878186

This might be the most beautiful pic I've seen yet of an MDR (Let's try this ONE more time):

(https://image.ibb.co/dVJuyb/IMG_20180124_143716404_2.jpg)


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: EWTHeckman on January 27, 2018, 03:25:45 PM
This might be the most beautiful pic I've seen yet of an MDR:

It cannot be seen unless you're a member of sniper's hide.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: Box on January 27, 2018, 03:27:05 PM
Quote from: HBeretta
Once they resolve the gas issue, clamp down on production...fix the charging handle...time to get the checkbook out.

I feel the same.  I want the MDR to be very reliable, but Iím still worried about the ejection and now stuff like the handguard being brittle.   The trigger seems to be less-than-promised but ShootingSight can fix that.  I like the fact that DT seems to be listening (i.e. more gas settings).

If the gen 2 MDR addresses all the issues, Iíll get one.  


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on January 28, 2018, 11:54:08 AM
MDR is back en route to DT.
I accidentally left a Magpul QD rail adapter on it, hope that makes it back to me.
Sent list of issues As:
Left side CH doesn't lock back
Busted handguard - and want to know if this is a one-off or they have 'special' guidance on bipod on the MDR
Mag release stiff AF
Trigger more like 6.4 vs the claims of a 'crisp 4.6#' - and asked they update their manual and marketing to stop false advertising/setting wrongexoectations if this is as good as it gets.

Will see what happens once it's back.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: thehun on January 28, 2018, 01:32:13 PM
MDR is b back end route to DT.
I accidentally left a Magpul QD rail adapter on it, hope that makes it back to me.
Sent list of issues As:
Left side CH doesn't lock back
Busted handguard - and want to know if this is a one-off or they have 'special' guidance on bipod on the MDR
Mag release stiff AF
Trigger more like 6.4 vs the claims of a 'crisp 4.6#' - and asked they update their manual and marketing to stop false advertising/setting wrongexoectations if this is as good as it gets.

Will see what happens once it's back.

Disappointing. However, one thing DT has going is taking care of customers. I do not think their customer service has dropped.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: thehun on January 28, 2018, 01:46:24 PM
Just some additional data, looks like a guy over on the hide didn't have handguard breaking issues yet, but does have a crappy trigger and significant gas in the face, as well as poor groups (so far): http://forum.snipershide.com/threads/desert-tech-mdr-6-5-creedmoor.6802224/#post-6878186

This might be the most beautiful pic I've seen yet of an MDR (Let's try this ONE more time):

(https://image.ibb.co/dVJuyb/IMG_20180124_143716404_2.jpg)

That does look good.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on February 02, 2018, 09:36:06 PM
MDR received and diagnosis sent a day later, so kudos to quick turnaround.  They let me know it showed up yesterday afternoon, and sent a video of the corrected charging handle in action, and some details.  Short version it the video they sent showed solid lockup from the left hand side like I was only able to get on the right previously.

Minor mag release and trigger adjustment, but noted it will continue to loosen up w/more break-in. 

The hand guard I think we're just going to disagree on the cause there.  Jeff sent some pics on how/why they thought it happened (M-lok backer not perpendicular to the slot), while I intentionally took the forearm off for install to ensure proper rail installation and torqued to the M-lok metal to polymer spec of 15#/lbs. 

Asked for clarification on DTs 'official' torque spec and if they are making any statement RE: use w/bipods etc., otherwise will take a pic of both torque and M-lok backer positioning once I receive it back.  Did I need to torque to higher spec?  Did the M-lok backers rotate?  Don't know, so leaving it at I got a quick response from DT and will be happy to move on to 'next round' of accuracy (and reliability testing) once the rifle returns. 




Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: ShootingSight on February 03, 2018, 03:26:27 PM
What is DT doing about the trigger?

I know almost everyone complained about it that its not what it was promised.


At a minimum, DT is being VERY supportive of the ShootingSight RPS Trigger development.  They had a prototype in their booth at SHOT show, and I presume it will be a Gen II prototype by the NRA show in April.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: thehun on February 03, 2018, 05:08:17 PM
That is great to hear and love that one is being developed...however at $2500 modern firearm...the trigger shoudn't need upgrading though...even if its a bullpup design...


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: kfeltenberger on February 03, 2018, 07:46:48 PM
That is great to hear and love that one is being developed...however at $2500 modern firearm...the trigger shoudn't need upgrading though...even if its a bullpup design...

This has been said before and it bears repeating:  DT never said this would have a precision rifle's trigger - they said it would have a trigger suitable for a "battle rifle" (their words, not mine).


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: JesseJames38 on February 03, 2018, 08:47:36 PM
While I do agree that Desert Tech never said that it was going to have a precision rifle trigger in the MDR, It does state in the manual that it has a "Crisp 4.6 lb Trigger.   

Personally. by them stating that in the manual, that is what the rifle should have.     After looking at the MDR video from shot show from 2018,   and MAC video of the MDR.   Using a digital pull gauge having a 6lb trigger pull is a far cry from the 4.6lb in the manual.

And from the general statements of people on this forum who said own the MDR, most if I am not mistaken has stated there is quite a bit of creep in the trigger.

There is the argument that a 2500 dollar rifle shouldn't need to have a after market trigger installed.  And I do see there point to some extent.     I am more in the notion that if the manual says it has this type of trigger "Crisp 4.6 lb trigger"  is should damn well have that trigger.

If I buy a car and it manual states it has a 300 HP engine.       and you take the engine out and put it on a dyno and it comes back at 275  I would not be pleased. 


It is a much better world when you under promise something and over deliver then it is for you to over state the specs and then under deliver on said items.

But that is where I stand. 
Jesse


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: Sdevante on February 03, 2018, 09:26:06 PM

If I buy a car and it manual states it has a 300 HP engine.       and you take the engine out and put it on a dyno and it comes back at 275  I would not be pleased. 


Maybe DT measured the pull weight at the crank?


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: JesseJames38 on February 03, 2018, 09:34:19 PM

If I buy a car and it manual states it has a 300 HP engine.       and you take the engine out and put it on a dyno and it comes back at 275  I would not be pleased. 


Maybe DT measured the pull weight at the crank?

I have no idea where they measured the pull weight from.  Hell for all I know they cut the bottom of the trigger guard off.  put a 1 inch trigger shoe extension on the trigger and measured it from the bottom of the extension.     Who knows.     All I can say is I expect what is advertised.     

Jesse.     


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: thehun on February 04, 2018, 04:51:01 PM
Agreed.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: bpguy on February 04, 2018, 10:20:11 PM
I guess people have forgotten the post from Nick himself saying "The MDR's Trigger weight is 4.5-5 lbs, anyone who has reported anything above has miss-reported the specification because they hastefully over-pulled the trigger gauge beyond the triggers breaking point.
https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?topic=12444.20 (https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?topic=12444.20)
I guess people at SHOT SHOW were not using the gage right either. 


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: Ditcher on February 04, 2018, 10:26:03 PM
I guess people have forgotten the post from Nick himself saying "The MDR's Trigger weight is 4.5-5 lbs, anyone who has reported anything above has miss-reported the specification because they hastefully over-pulled the trigger gauge beyond the triggers breaking point.
https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?topic=12444.20 (https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?topic=12444.20)
I guess people at SHOT SHOW were not using the gage right either. 

Well this is true, How do we know the training these people received on using a trigger gauge or it the trigger gauge they are using is in calibration!   ;D


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: bpguy on February 05, 2018, 11:12:35 AM
I guess people have forgotten the post from Nick himself saying "The MDR's Trigger weight is 4.5-5 lbs, anyone who has reported anything above has miss-reported the specification because they hastefully over-pulled the trigger gauge beyond the triggers breaking point.
https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?topic=12444.20 (https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?topic=12444.20)
I guess people at SHOT SHOW were not using the gage right either. 

Well this is true, How do we know the training these people received on using a trigger gauge or it the trigger gauge they are using is in calibration!   ;D
If there were only one report of a crappy trigger then I would cry foul on the report.  Also with the trigger gage.  But there have been several videos and reports on this.  So to cry calibration or user error is a shame.  Obviously you have never used a digital pull gage to know how easy they are to use and get constant results.  You can watch the MAC video and see that he is using it correctly and his reporting is similar to other reports out there.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on February 05, 2018, 12:49:03 PM
I guess people have forgotten the post from Nick himself saying "The MDR's Trigger weight is 4.5-5 lbs, anyone who has reported anything above has miss-reported the specification because they hastefully over-pulled the trigger gauge beyond the triggers breaking point.
https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?topic=12444.20 (https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?topic=12444.20)
I guess people at SHOT SHOW were not using the gage right either. 

Well this is true, How do we know the training these people received on using a trigger gauge or it the trigger gauge they are using is in calibration!   ;D
If there were only one report of a crappy trigger then I would cry foul on the report.  Also with the trigger gage.  But there have been several videos and reports on this.  So to cry calibration or user error is a shame.  Obviously you have never used a digital pull gage to know how easy they are to use and get constant results.  You can watch the MAC video and see that he is using it correctly and his reporting is similar to other reports out there.

If anyone has a sampling of weights, one could also do it the old fashioned way - put rifle in a vice or fix straight upwards, put a string around the trigger, and a known weight on the bottom.  I don't know how one could easily argue those results. 

As I still can't find my original trigger pull gauge, I've now got a new Wheeler digital coming for whenever the MDR makes it back to me.  I think the reality is it is what it is, which is likely a ~6#-ish, not great but also not terrible, trigger.  It's also TBD as to how much the trigger may wear in over time. 

Will post the #s once I have the MDR back.  Meanwhile, as others hopefully start to get theirs, and trigger weights are posted, it will be interesting to see DTs response or if the manual is updated, possibly having the weight from the 'crisp 4.6# trigger' line removed altogether.  This is of course assuming no one is getting 4.x# triggers.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: Ditcher on February 05, 2018, 02:20:23 PM
I guess people have forgotten the post from Nick himself saying "The MDR's Trigger weight is 4.5-5 lbs, anyone who has reported anything above has miss-reported the specification because they hastefully over-pulled the trigger gauge beyond the triggers breaking point.
https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?topic=12444.20 (https://bullpupforum.com/index.php?topic=12444.20)
I guess people at SHOT SHOW were not using the gage right either. 

Well this is true, How do we know the training these people received on using a trigger gauge or it the trigger gauge they are using is in calibration!   ;D
If there were only one report of a crappy trigger then I would cry foul on the report.  Also with the trigger gage.  But there have been several videos and reports on this.  So to cry calibration or user error is a shame.  Obviously you have never used a digital pull gage to know how easy they are to use and get constant results.  You can watch the MAC video and see that he is using it correctly and his reporting is similar to other reports out there.

You know I was joking right???


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: newguy2k3 on February 05, 2018, 11:13:12 PM
Mine actually measures about 4.5lbs at the bottom 1/4 of the trigger shoe.

It just has more creep than every other AR trigger I have put together. I think I measured .080"+ of sear engagement. I got an extra hammer first but I stoned the hammer and cut the sear engagement in half and while it's much better I would still take the milspec trigger in my Bushmaster first.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on February 06, 2018, 06:58:06 PM
Mine actually measures about 4.5lbs at the bottom 1/4 of the trigger shoe.

It just has more creep than every other AR trigger I have put together. I think I measured .080"+ of sear engagement. I got an extra hammer first but I stoned the hammer and cut the sear engagement in half and while it's much better I would still take the milspec trigger in my Bushmaster first.

Interesting to see how mine compares.  Is that before or after your work on it?
A Wheeler 'pro' digital gauge showed up today from Amazon; the MDR looks like it'll be back to me on Monday.

DT sold you a hammer separately?  How much?
I'm more interested in getting back to reliability and accuracy testing once it's back in my hands again, but might consider trying to do some smoothing down the line.  Maybe, and if parts are available.  I did a solid job on my CZ, but may also just wait to see how/if it breaks in over time or what Art comes up with.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: HBeretta on February 08, 2018, 10:22:39 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/WplZifT.jpg)

maybe the hand guards aren't as tough as they need to be...noticed this in CBM's 556 vid.  assumed they were using a zytel polymer...but maybe not...anyone's guess.

(https://i.imgur.com/pE3C2Xvh.jpg)


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: JesseJames38 on February 08, 2018, 10:43:09 PM
That's not looking good.  and the sad part is  that's the top half of the hand guard.     don't think I ever seen CBM ever put anything on the top rail of the MDR handguard.


Jesse


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: kfeltenberger on February 08, 2018, 10:58:10 PM
That's not looking good.  and the sad part is  that's the top half of the hand guard.     don't think I ever seen CBM ever put anything on the top rail of the MDR handguard.

Jesse

On the face of it, I would agree.  However, we don't know the lineage of the handguard or what has been done to it.  It could be an original test item that has been beaten to hell and back and is showing the wear.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: Box on February 08, 2018, 11:09:01 PM
Nice catch, HBeretta.

Itís definitely very concerning.   I suppose thatís seemingly an easy fix that DT can handle, but it would require a polymer change.

Iíd like to hear CBM chime in on that image.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: spacegunz on February 09, 2018, 04:41:49 AM
The Desert Tech MDR is such a disaster. Letís recap:

* Charging handle often doesn't lock back; charging handle flops around when firing
* Default flash hider is torqued on WAY too tight, where trying to remove it sometimes causes damage
* PMAGs donít always drop free
* Reliability issues and weird ejection malfunctions like trying to eject live rounds
* Overgassed when suppressed, even on the suppressor setting
* Hand guard is brittle and breaks from simple bipod use óand DT blames the user for ďmounting it wrongĒ
* Mag release way too stiff or stuck, and DT just says ďitíll loosen up over timeĒ (about as trustworthy as their continual promises that theyíll ship out all the preorders ďsoonĒ)
* Trigger pulp weighs 6-8 lbs rather than the advertised ďcrisp 4.6 lbsĒ ó and Nick Young of DT blames customers from using their trigger gauges wrong.

Letís see, what else am I missing? Oh yeah ó theyíre not really even shipping them yet in any reaonsably large quantities; meanwhile they parade around gun shows saying theyíve ďshippedĒ the MDR.

Hmm, what about some positives? Well, I hear it feels nice and looks nice before you shoot it. So thereís that.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: coldboremiracle on February 09, 2018, 09:34:06 AM


(https://i.imgur.com/pE3C2Xvh.jpg)





Good eye, I was hoping nobody noticed that. That was from shooting the rifle with the overmolded handguard, and no suppressor, 308 muzzle blast is not kind. Its the only reason why I have my own overmolded handguard  ::)  


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: thehun on February 09, 2018, 11:28:53 AM
So are the handguards breaking up top due to the gas coming out of the barrel...is that it?

or did you shot the MDR with an extended handguard that went past barrel? (if so that is not smart to beging with).

If it's not one thing...its another it seems like.


Title: Re: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: ES Tactical on February 09, 2018, 11:31:50 AM
So are the handguards breaking up top due to the gas coming out of the barrel...is that it?

Seems pretty dang cheap to me...come on DT. If it's not one thing...its another. What is going on?
It he used the overmolded handguard without a suppressor, then it's from the muzzle blast being contained inside the hand guard.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk



Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: coldboremiracle on February 09, 2018, 11:38:18 AM
So are the handguards breaking up top due to the gas coming out of the barrel...is that it?

or did you shot the MDR with an extended handguard that went past barrel? (if so that is not smart to beging with).

If it's not one thing...its another it seems like.

You seriously think a poly handguard wrapped around a 308 muzzle should hold up? Yes, the extended handguard goes past the muzzle, dont worry, its not your handguard.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: AF Gunner on February 09, 2018, 12:11:28 PM
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/07/28/potd-dont-cover-up-your-muzzle-brakes-they-like-to-be-free/ (http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/07/28/potd-dont-cover-up-your-muzzle-brakes-they-like-to-be-free/)

I don't think it's good on aluminum either.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: thehun on February 09, 2018, 03:28:45 PM
So are the handguards breaking up top due to the gas coming out of the barrel...is that it?

or did you shot the MDR with an extended handguard that went past barrel? (if so that is not smart to beging with).

If it's not one thing...its another it seems like.

You seriously think a poly handguard wrapped around a 308 muzzle should hold up? Yes, the extended handguard goes past the muzzle, dont worry, its not your handguard.

Of course not...I was trying to clarify how it happened with a bit of sarcasm.  ;D


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: kfeltenberger on February 09, 2018, 05:59:50 PM
So are the handguards breaking up top due to the gas coming out of the barrel...is that it?

or did you shot the MDR with an extended handguard that went past barrel? (if so that is not smart to beging with).

If it's not one thing...its another it seems like.

You seriously think a poly handguard wrapped around a 308 muzzle should hold up? Yes, the extended handguard goes past the muzzle, dont worry, its not your handguard.

Of course not...I was trying to clarify how it happened with a bit of sarcasm.  ;D

Perhaps until we have our MDRs and people back off the hair trigger response to lay siege with torches and pitchforks the sarcasm should be withheld?


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: Aussie E on February 09, 2018, 06:19:35 PM
So are the handguards breaking up top due to the gas coming out of the barrel...is that it?

or did you shot the MDR with an extended handguard that went past barrel? (if so that is not smart to beging with).

If it's not one thing...its another it seems like.

You seriously think a poly handguard wrapped around a 308 muzzle should hold up? Yes, the extended handguard goes past the muzzle, dont worry, its not your handguard.

Of course not...I was trying to clarify how it happened with a bit of sarcasm.  ;D

Perhaps until we have our MDRs and people back off the hair trigger response to lay siege with torches and pitchforks the sarcasm should be withheld?

Wow, when do we go from suggesting how people speak to suggesting how they think?

AE


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: Dogslayer on February 09, 2018, 07:07:20 PM
You must drink the DT coolaid, only then will you be praising DT for their prompt
release and delivery of tomorrow's weapons today. Or sometime this century.

Dogslayer


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: spacegunz on February 09, 2018, 07:19:38 PM
Iím pretty cynical on the MDR at this point, but even I would forgive Desert Tech (or anyone) when issues arise from a .308 muzzle brake fired inside of an overmolded handguard (with no suppressor), unless it was specifically designed for that. As linked above, even aluminum is susceptible.

What I am concerned about, however, is the chipped polymer handguard from bipod use. In fact, most concerning is not just the damage itself, but that when sent back to DT, they had the arrogance to blame the user (if Iím interpreting his post correctly) for installing the MLOK attachment wrong.

Even if you installed the MLOK nut at the wrong angle, it still shouldnít break off entire chunks of the hand guard. MLOK was designed by Magpul specifically to work well with polymer handguards. Any chipping of the handguards from normal use is indicative of the wrong type of polymer (or a bad batch) being used. I donít believe you could make that happen to a Magpul polymer handguard, even if you tried.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: thehun on February 09, 2018, 08:33:31 PM
So are the handguards breaking up top due to the gas coming out of the barrel...is that it?

or did you shot the MDR with an extended handguard that went past barrel? (if so that is not smart to beging with).

If it's not one thing...its another it seems like.

You seriously think a poly handguard wrapped around a 308 muzzle should hold up? Yes, the extended handguard goes past the muzzle, dont worry, its not your handguard.

Of course not...I was trying to clarify how it happened with a bit of sarcasm.  ;D

Perhaps until we have our MDRs and people back off the hair trigger response to lay siege with torches and pitchforks the sarcasm should be withheld?

Ummmm.....that would be a no. I am actually excited to see more MDRs out in the wild (as they happen)...sarcasm stays...even if it hurts your little DT cool aid fan boy heart  >:D >:D ;D ;D >:D >:D


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: kfeltenberger on February 09, 2018, 09:32:09 PM
So are the handguards breaking up top due to the gas coming out of the barrel...is that it?

or did you shot the MDR with an extended handguard that went past barrel? (if so that is not smart to beging with).

If it's not one thing...its another it seems like.

You seriously think a poly handguard wrapped around a 308 muzzle should hold up? Yes, the extended handguard goes past the muzzle, dont worry, its not your handguard.

Of course not...I was trying to clarify how it happened with a bit of sarcasm.  ;D

Perhaps until we have our MDRs and people back off the hair trigger response to lay siege with torches and pitchforks the sarcasm should be withheld?

Wow, when do we go from suggesting how people speak to suggesting how they think?

AE


It's called a suggestion...you know, something to foster polite discourse...something that this forum has been missing for quite some time.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: kfeltenberger on February 09, 2018, 09:33:47 PM
You must drink the DT coolaid, only then will you be praising DT for their prompt
release and delivery of tomorrow's weapons today. Or sometime this century.

Dogslayer

I have no clue how you got that out of a comment suggesting that we hold the sarcasm because everyone seems to be on a hair trigger to take every comment in the absolute worst way possible.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: kfeltenberger on February 09, 2018, 09:36:13 PM
So are the handguards breaking up top due to the gas coming out of the barrel...is that it?

or did you shot the MDR with an extended handguard that went past barrel? (if so that is not smart to beging with).

If it's not one thing...its another it seems like.

You seriously think a poly handguard wrapped around a 308 muzzle should hold up? Yes, the extended handguard goes past the muzzle, dont worry, its not your handguard.

Of course not...I was trying to clarify how it happened with a bit of sarcasm.  ;D

Perhaps until we have our MDRs and people back off the hair trigger response to lay siege with torches and pitchforks the sarcasm should be withheld?

Ummmm.....that would be a no. I am actually excited to see more MDRs out in the wild (as they happen)...sarcasm stays...even if it hurts your little DT cool aid fan boy heart  >:D >:D ;D ;D >:D >:D

Doesn't hurt my heart at all.  You seem to be the one that's emotionally invested in trying to be as rude as possible about as much as possible.  I'm just suggesting that the sarcasm be withheld for better understanding.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: thehun on February 09, 2018, 10:14:35 PM
Iím truly not. However I get your point.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on February 12, 2018, 11:46:37 AM
MDR showed back up this am; thankfully am working remote today as I'm slammed the rest of the week. 
CH lockup is now working properly. 

I believe my MDR was 'adjusted' at least to some extent as I did gripe about the trigger and mag release.
Avg of 4 trigger pulls at the bottom of the trigger was 4.1#. 
Avg of 4 trigger pulls at the 'curve' where trigger finger is most likely to be pulling: 6.x #.  (cleared the readings, but at least one was > 7#, so will re-test).
Will run some more tonight.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: Steelviper on February 12, 2018, 11:49:25 AM
As always thanks for the 1st hand knowledge and opinion.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: thehun on February 12, 2018, 12:31:44 PM
MDR showed back up this am; thankfully am working remote today as I'm slammed the rest of the week. 
CH lockup is now working properly. 

I believe my MDR was 'adjusted' at least to some extent as I did gripe about the trigger and mag release.
Avg of 4 trigger pulls at the bottom of the trigger was 4.1#. 
Avg of 4 trigger pulls at the 'curve' where trigger finger is most likely to be pulling: 6.x #.  (cleared the readings, but at least one was > 7#, so will re-test).
Will run some more tonight.

Hope it continues to work for you. Keep us informed.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on February 12, 2018, 03:23:02 PM
Ok, so... played around with a bit more, including where my finger winds up sitting on pull.  
If you look at the MDR trigger, downwards from the obvious curve, you see a 'point' at the rear side of the trigger a bit below the 'bent'/curved portion.  This is where my finger 'wants' to go if I just grab the rifle.  It's not brushing the finger-guard at the bottom, and not all the way down, but it is below where the trigger curves outwards again.  

Doing a run of 10 pulls, using a Wheeler Engineering 'Pro' digital gauge, yields around 4.25#, or 4lbs 4.2oz.  
In that run, there was a low of 3# 14.2oz and a high of 4# 6.4oz.  
I think there's more wearing in to be done here based on the variance, and this 'feels' lighter than when it was sent to DT.  The trigger remains 'ok' - it's not a great trigger, but also not a bad one, although I am surprised it's coming in at 4.25-ish # going off of how it feels.  

YMMV as always.  Will compare to my AUG w/2020 hammer pack (not the sear, full pack) in it later.

(https://i.imgur.com/uBW17Jz.jpg)


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on February 12, 2018, 06:49:48 PM
For comparison, my AUG with full hammer pack (not sear only) is at ~4.1#, with similar high and low values.  
My AUG trigger is less gritty and manages to somehow feel 'nicer' going back to back, but to be fair, I've had thousands of rounds through it.
And my bolt gun w/Timney is right around 2.3# with a true 'crisp break.'
(https://i.imgur.com/SnNHAI8.jpg)


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: JesseJames38 on February 12, 2018, 08:52:52 PM
Thanks for the update there RTP, its nice to see something that it is compared to,  It is also nice to see they have adjusted your trigger or so it appears so in order to get the correct poundage.   HOply it still improves after a few hundred rounds.

Thanks again for the update.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on February 12, 2018, 09:51:21 PM
As always thanks for the 1st hand knowledge and opinion.

No problem, and hopefully there will be more joining in soon with theirs in hand. 

Next up for me is re-mounting the DMR2 in a Spuhr mount and re-zero-ing, hopefully followed by some more accuracy testing on the remainder of the factory match ammo I've got left. 

Oh, and of course pics of M-lok backer placement inside the handrail and torquing, although I use a Borka which isn't as 'nice' as a digital readout, although I trust it more. ;)  Hoping the hand guard issue was a one-off, and smooth sailing from here.  Will see. 

Will post a pic next to my AUG once I re-mount the optic - it's interesting as I never thought the AUG to be a particularly svelte rifle, although compact, nor the MDR to be 'big,' although heavy-ish, but side by side or the AUG 'on top of' the MDR is interesting.  Note the LOP differences. 

Ok, screw it - pic minus optic on the MDR makes the point well enough.  AUG in 9mm trim, so would be slightly longer with the 5.56 barrel and AAC FH/mount on it.
(https://i.imgur.com/fr6D9Z6.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/v2kkQbj.jpg)



Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: JesseJames38 on February 12, 2018, 10:24:05 PM
Yeah. I am just waiting for  Euro Optic to give me a phone call and say "hey your rifle is here, where do you want it sent to?"  But I don't have a trigger gauge so I will have no idea what my pull weight will be when it gets here.   Looking at the two photos you have,  One it looks like the MDR has a shorter length of pull and in the second one it looks like it has a longer length of pull. so I am confused which one is the shorter LOP rifle,  dang out I hate optical illusions.

Jesse


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on February 12, 2018, 10:29:18 PM
 Looking at the two photos you have,  One it looks like the MDR has a shorter length of pull and in the second one it looks like it has a longer length of pull. so I am confused which one is the shorter LOP rifle,  dang out I hate optical illusions.

Jesse
Good point. Will just measure both tomorrow... Was going to wait for the pic with AUG until after mounting the optic but thought it was an interesting pic so took a quickie potato pic.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: Slateman on February 13, 2018, 09:39:57 AM
So what suppressor?

I'm probably going to get a Rugged Surge. Great muzzle devices and has a K configuration built in.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: wagrn on February 13, 2018, 12:09:00 PM
I have both the surge and razor, find myself using the razor more.  Both are good. Thinking about getting a sandman s next.  LGS has amtacs on sell, but with all the mdr problems think I will stick with qd cans for now.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on February 13, 2018, 09:49:32 PM
 Looking at the two photos you have,  One it looks like the MDR has a shorter length of pull and in the second one it looks like it has a longer length of pull. so I am confused which one is the shorter LOP rifle,  dang out I hate optical illusions.

Jesse
Good point. Will just measure both tomorrow... Was going to wait for the pic with AUG until after mounting the optic but thought it was an interesting pic so took a quickie potato pic.


Measured both the AUG and MDR LOP - charged/trigger reset in straight line to rear of stock center is pretty near identical at ~15" to end of buttstock.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: Potss on February 14, 2018, 11:45:51 PM
A Q Trash Panda or Thunder Chicken is a better choice, especially for a platform that is sensitive to back pressure.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: cjgemm on February 15, 2018, 12:48:39 PM
So what suppressor?

I'm probably going to get a Rugged Surge. Great muzzle devices and has a K configuration built in.

OSS or Tranquilo.

Everything else mentioned is a conventional design that will have back pressure/blow back.  While 7.62 cans work OK on 5.56 cases with less than 30gns of powder anything more than that will make you cry....


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on March 11, 2018, 08:25:14 PM
So, this time mounted a 5 slot Magpul MLok rail section.  Just in case I have more handguard issues, hopefully the below will show:
1.  There is in fact locking compound on the screws (my prior 3 slot MII still has Loc-Tite on it, but anyways ... ).
2.  Torqued to 15 in/lbs, which is the spec for MLok polymer to polymer mounting.
3.  MLok backers are as they should be.
(https://i.imgur.com/ThR4k1j.jpg)

I also swapped the Aero Precision mount for a Spuhr. 
(https://i.imgur.com/tTpHX0l.jpg)

Unfortunately, the weather wasn't cooperating for this weekend, but should be back to the range next Sat with it.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: maleante on March 11, 2018, 11:20:31 PM
That Spuhr mount makes me jealous. With eBay's 20% off sale last night or the night before I was this close >< to buying a Spuhr mount for my ssg08.

If you still have the aero mount and don't need it, let me know. May have a use for it in an AR... Will email you later.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on March 11, 2018, 11:28:56 PM
That Spuhr mount makes me jealous. With eBay's 20% off sale last night or the night before I was this close >< to buying a Spuhr mount for my ssg08.

If you still have the aero mount and don't need it, let me know. May have a use for it in an AR... Will email you later.

Sounds good. I picked up the Spuhr on a 25% off from OP. Of course it took forever to show up but worth it for the price break.  Depending on how next weekend goes, I may throw on the Deltapoint Pro onto the Spuhr and do a 2/3 gun match for grins.  Totally missed the eBay sale or I might have picked up a second Spuhr. 

One interesting bit..noticed my Borka torque wrench breaks sooner vs the Wheeler. Tough to say how much difference, but less, 1/8-1/4 turn set to 15in/lbs.  Kinda missing Snap-on at the moment w known calibration...


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: HBeretta on March 11, 2018, 11:32:42 PM
Rtp...that scope though.  On my wish list for sure.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: kfeltenberger on March 11, 2018, 11:41:02 PM
Speaking of mounts and such, are you finding that you need higher mounts for the optic than if you were using it on an AR?


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on March 12, 2018, 12:18:38 AM
Speaking of mounts and such, are you finding that you need higher mounts for the optic than if you were using it on an AR?

No.  Tried shorter when I used the ERS off my 700 and it was way low. Unlike the Tavor, MDR is good to go with AR height mounts.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: kfeltenberger on March 12, 2018, 12:32:14 AM
Speaking of mounts and such, are you finding that you need higher mounts for the optic than if you were using it on an AR?

No.  Tried shorter when I used the ERS off my 700 and it was way low. Unlike the Tavor, MDR is good to go with AR height mounts.

Thanks!  I had a cheap VISM ECO (don't ask...it looked cool, it was late at night, and it was dirt cheap on Dvor...) that's been sitting on the shelf for well over a year and tried it out and had to crane my head down to see through it.  The best thing about the scope is the green laser...that is bright...but the rest of it...meh.

I really need to get my Kahles K16i mounted on it...talk about going from the class skank to the class debutante...


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: wagrn on March 12, 2018, 05:53:52 AM
Rtp...that scope though.  On my wish list for sure.

Bushnell is doing 30% off this month.  Puts that dmr/hdmr down in the 1000-1100 range.  Also no limit so xrs  in the 1500 range. 


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on March 12, 2018, 09:47:15 AM
Speaking of mounts and such, are you finding that you need higher mounts for the optic than if you were using it on an AR?

No.  Tried shorter when I used the ERS off my 700 and it was way low. Unlike the Tavor, MDR is good to go with AR height mounts.

Thanks!  I had a cheap VISM ECO (don't ask...it looked cool, it was late at night, and it was dirt cheap on Dvor...) that's been sitting on the shelf for well over a year and tried it out and had to crane my head down to see through it.  The best thing about the scope is the green laser...that is bright...but the rest of it...meh.

I really need to get my Kahles K16i mounted on it...talk about going from the class skank to the class debutante...

I was initially concerned about this as well, moreso as I jumped through some hoops with a buddy with his Tavor where we had to squish our faces into the stock for a 'nose-weld' to get a decent sight picture, but AR mounts seem to be spot on.  My Spuhr is right at 1.5" IIRC.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on March 12, 2018, 09:50:03 AM
Rtp...that scope though.  On my wish list for sure.

Bushnell is doing 30% off this month.  Puts that dmr/hdmr down in the 1000-1100 range.  Also no limit so xrs  in the 1500 range. 

This is supposed to exclude the Elite Tactical line, but get it if you're able to.
I got a nice deal on the DMR2, so not concerned, although were the XRS2 out and available for a similar discount I likely would have picked one up, even if it wound up on the bolt gun and the ERS came over to the MDR.
One interesting thing is supposedly a DMR2 'Pro' with ED glass is supposed to be coming at some point in the future, as well.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: wagrn on March 12, 2018, 10:11:46 AM
Rtp thanks for that catch. Some web sites were showing the rebate on the dmr and xrs.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: HBeretta on March 12, 2018, 06:42:39 PM
Rtp...that scope though.  On my wish list for sure.

Bushnell is doing 30% off this month.  Puts that dmr/hdmr down in the 1000-1100 range.  Also no limit so xrs  in the 1500 range. 

Thnx for the heads up


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: BullpupT on March 13, 2018, 05:14:07 PM
I bought a Primary Arms Platinum 6-30x56mm with a 34mm main tube for a Ruger Precision Rifle. The tracking is perfect... I mean spot on! I shot it out to 600 yards dialing and redialing out to various ranges throughout the day with great results. I dialed it down to the 100 yard zero stop at the end of the day and it shot exactly to its original zero.

 Itís a mil on mil scope meaning it dials and reticle ranges in mils. Some scopes dial in mils yet their range finding is in MOA which makes no sense. Itís a first focal plane scope with HD glass and itís also made in the same exact factory as $3000+ scopes. It uses the same components at half the price. People should take a good look at it for a best value scope. You get a military grade HD scope with an AMAZING DECA reticle for around $1500. You could throw a big name sticker on it and sell it for $2500 or more all day long.

The Bushnell tracks nice but they use lower end glass. There is an article somewhere online where one of the designers admits to using lower end HD glass. There was a reason but I forget what it was. Check out some user reviews online and on YouTube. I did a ton of research and chose the Primary Arms because itís tough, crystal clear, and tracks. YouTube long range teacher and shooter Tiberius Rex did a year long test between the Primary Arms, Nightforce, and Vortex HD Gen 2. The Primary Arms was the only scope that didnít break or get damaged after a year of sub arctic to hot desert testing. I guess Vortex are like disposable lighters, they break all the time but Vortex has the best warranty around and they usually just send out a replacement. They purposely Jack up the cost of their scopes to cover their warranty policy.

Scopes
http://www.primaryarms.com/new-primary-arms-platinum-series-6-30x56-ffp-scope-with-deka-mil-reticle-pa6-30x56ffp-deka-ams

Test
https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=915s&v=78WddKKgMZo




Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on March 13, 2018, 06:11:09 PM
I bought a Primary Arms Platinum 6-30x56mm with a 34mm main tube for a Ruger Precision Rifle. The tracking is perfect... I mean spot on! I shot it out to 600 yards dialing and redialing out to various ranges throughout the day with great results. I dialed it down to the 100 yard zero stop at the end of the day and it shot exactly to its original zero.

 Itís a mil on mil scope meaning it dials and reticle ranges in mils. Some scopes dial in mils yet their range finding is in MOA which makes no sense. Itís a first focal plane scope with HD glass and itís also made in the same exact factory as $3000+ scopes. It uses the same components at half the price. People should take a good look at it for a best value scope. You get a military grade HD scope with an AMAZING DECA reticle for around $1500. You could throw a big name sticker on it and sell it for $2500 or more all day long.

The Bushnell tracks nice but they use lower end glass. There is an article somewhere online where one of the designers admits to using lower end HD glass. There was a reason but I forget what it was. Check out some user reviews online and on YouTube. I did a ton of research and chose the Primary Arms because itís tough, crystal clear, and tracks. YouTube long range teacher and shooter Tiberius Rex did a year long test between the Primary Arms, Nightforce, and Vortex HD Gen 2. The Primary Arms was the only scope that break after a year of sub arctic to hot desert testing.

Scope
http://www.primaryarms.com/new-primary-arms-platinum-series-6-30x56-ffp-scope-with-deka-mil-reticle-pa6-30x56ffp-deka-ams

Test
https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=915s&v=78WddKKgMZo


Depends on which Bushnell.  ERS > HDMR (gen 1) while (H)DMR gen 2 got a glass upgrade over the first gen, and the XRS2 is holding it's own against much more $ optics from initial reports.  The DMR 2 'Pro' is supposed to use ED glass - will be interesting to see what happens when it's out.

Meanwhile Nighforce, as an example, has 'OK' glass in NSX, while the new 1-8 ATACR is supposed to be quite nice. 

Pick your compromises and go for it, IMO.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: maleante on March 13, 2018, 08:22:03 PM
I bought a Primary Arms Platinum 6-30x56mm with a 34mm main tube for a Ruger Precision Rifle. The tracking is perfect... I mean spot on! I shot it out to 600 yards dialing and redialing out to various ranges throughout the day with great results. I dialed it down to the 100 yard zero stop at the end of the day and it shot exactly to its original zero.

 Itís a mil on mil scope meaning it dials and reticle ranges in mils. Some scopes dial in mils yet their range finding is in MOA which makes no sense. Itís a first focal plane scope with HD glass and itís also made in the same exact factory as $3000+ scopes. It uses the same components at half the price. People should take a good look at it for a best value scope. You get a military grade HD scope with an AMAZING DECA reticle for around $1500. You could throw a big name sticker on it and sell it for $2500 or more all day long.

The Bushnell tracks nice but they use lower end glass. There is an article somewhere online where one of the designers admits to using lower end HD glass. There was a reason but I forget what it was. Check out some user reviews online and on YouTube. I did a ton of research and chose the Primary Arms because itís tough, crystal clear, and tracks. YouTube long range teacher and shooter Tiberius Rex did a year long test between the Primary Arms, Nightforce, and Vortex HD Gen 2. The Primary Arms was the only scope that didnít break or get damaged after a year of sub arctic to hot desert testing. I guess Vortex are like disposable lighters, they break all the time but Vortex has the best warranty around and they usually just send out a replacement. They purposely Jack up the cost of their scopes to cover their warranty policy.

Scopes
http://www.primaryarms.com/new-primary-arms-platinum-series-6-30x56-ffp-scope-with-deka-mil-reticle-pa6-30x56ffp-deka-ams

Test
https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=915s&v=78WddKKgMZo


"Same exact components at half the cost". That's a false statement.

It may come from the same factory that produces other decent quality optics, but to claim it uses the "exact same components" is wrong.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: thehun on March 14, 2018, 08:24:58 AM
How come people do not consider Meopta much?

I have a 1-4X on my BREN and it has the absolute clearest glass I have ever seen and the most robust construction...even though I am changing things up a bit and will be changing it out...the Meopta scopes are great equipment with premium German Schott glass (same as S&B) with Meopta's coatings.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: BullpupT on March 14, 2018, 08:50:46 AM
I bought a Primary Arms Platinum 6-30x56mm with a 34mm main tube for a Ruger Precision Rifle. The tracking is perfect... I mean spot on! I shot it out to 600 yards dialing and redialing out to various ranges throughout the day with great results. I dialed it down to the 100 yard zero stop at the end of the day and it shot exactly to its original zero.

 Itís a mil on mil scope meaning it dials and reticle ranges in mils. Some scopes dial in mils yet their range finding is in MOA which makes no sense. Itís a first focal plane scope with HD glass and itís also made in the same exact factory as $3000+ scopes. It uses the same components at half the price. People should take a good look at it for a best value scope. You get a military grade HD scope with an AMAZING DECA reticle for around $1500. You could throw a big name sticker on it and sell it for $2500 or more all day long.

The Bushnell tracks nice but they use lower end glass. There is an article somewhere online where one of the designers admits to using lower end HD glass. There was a reason but I forget what it was. Check out some user reviews online and on YouTube. I did a ton of research and chose the Primary Arms because itís tough, crystal clear, and tracks. YouTube long range teacher and shooter Tiberius Rex did a year long test between the Primary Arms, Nightforce, and Vortex HD Gen 2. The Primary Arms was the only scope that didnít break or get damaged after a year of sub arctic to hot desert testing. I guess Vortex are like disposable lighters, they break all the time but Vortex has the best warranty around and they usually just send out a replacement. They purposely Jack up the cost of their scopes to cover their warranty policy.

Scopes
http://www.primaryarms.com/new-primary-arms-platinum-series-6-30x56-ffp-scope-with-deka-mil-reticle-pa6-30x56ffp-deka-ams

Test
https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=915s&v=78WddKKgMZo


"Same exact components at half the cost". That's a false statement.

It may come from the same factory that produces other decent quality optics, but to claim it uses the "exact same components" is wrong.


From what I have heard a considerable cost of Nightforce scopes has to due with their Q.C. not their components. Nightforce has specific quality control measures that increase cost considerably. When you actually take the scopes apart you will see that they are very similar but not exactly the same. The components have the same quality ie the glass and erector assemblies. They just have different features.

I said you could throw a $2500 price tag on it with a name brand sticker on it and sell it all day. I stick by that statement as many other knowledgeable testers and reviewers have also echoed that same statement. Do a bit of research on the Platinum series and you will see that the glass, tubes, and erector assemblies are the same quality. The Vortex HD gen2 is around $2500 and has slightly different features yet the Primary Arms out performs it both in tracking and toughness. Check out Rexí videos he is a well respected extreme long range shooter and instructor how owns and test tier 1- tier 3 scopes. He chose the Primary Arms for is +$10,000 7mm/30mag custom rifle that he shoots will over 1.5 miles with. Sure the German stuff is better but when it comes to tier 2 scopes the Primary is hard to beat. You pay a grand more for Nightforce QC and name and you pay a grand more for Vortex warranties and name. The Primary Platinum is that good!


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: cjgemm on March 14, 2018, 11:07:51 AM
All NF FFP scopes are assembled in the USA.

Vortex gen 2 Razors come from LOW in Japan.  Upon arriving in the USA they are totally rebuilt with different internals @ Vortex.  The AMG is totally USA with the exception of the reticle that is sourced from Germany.

You might have been given some false information. ......


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: BullpupT on March 14, 2018, 11:43:14 AM
All NF FFP scopes are assembled in the USA.

Vortex gen 2 Razors come from LOW in Japan.  Upon arriving in the USA they are totally rebuilt with different internals @ Vortex.  The AMG is totally USA with the exception of the reticle that is sourced from Germany.

You might have been given some false information. ......

All NF use to be marked ďmade in USAĒ but some of their FFPís are now marked ď made in JapanĒ. Not sure if they are made in Japan now, but I have read and watch a few sources that indicate they might be Japanese now.

Nice little review
https://www.northwestfirearms.com/threads/razor-hd-gen-2-vs-sig-sauer-tango-6.245589/page-2

Battle of the Japanese scopes
https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=2119s&v=9GIlwKUHAys

Custom 2000 yard build with Primary Arms Platinum
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bRoLvzy2cTY


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: maleante on March 14, 2018, 01:36:16 PM
How come people do not consider Meopta much?

I have a 1-4X on my BREN and it has the absolute clearest glass I have ever seen and the most robust construction...even though I am changing things up a bit and will be changing it out...the Meopta scopes are great equipment with premium German Schott glass (same as S&B) with Meopta's coatings.

I also have quite a few different Meopta scopes. Their glass is extremely clear and bright. Would not hesitate to recommend Meopta to anyone. Also have Minox and Swarovski, both excellent choices. The only other scopes I have are SWFA SS and a Nikon Monarch 5 with their ED glass.

An Asian scope can be great, but certainly is not on par with good European offerings. My next scope purchase is another Meopta 4-16 ZD, followed by an SWFA 3-9 HD eventually.


Life is too short for s***ty glass that has a great warranty, because you'll need to use that warranty...


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: Slateman on March 14, 2018, 02:08:49 PM
The more I watch the ES 6.5CM vid,  the more I want two separate uppers with two different optics setups


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: Sdevante on March 14, 2018, 02:16:07 PM
The more I watch the ES 6.5CM vid,  the more I want two separate uppers with two different optics setups

Haven't been watching the vid but this is a good idea. I have a Vortex 1-6 for .308, and am kicking around the idea of getting a Vortex UH-1 for whenever the 5.56/2.23 kits come out. But having separate uppers would be a better way to do it.

Then again, separate uppers probably would end up meaning just buying a whole separate rifle Lol.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: cjgemm on March 14, 2018, 02:53:31 PM
All NF FFP scopes are assembled in the USA.

Vortex gen 2 Razors come from LOW in Japan.  Upon arriving in the USA they are totally rebuilt with different internals @ Vortex.  The AMG is totally USA with the exception of the reticle that is sourced from Germany.

You might have been given some false information. ......

All NF use to be marked ďmade in USAĒ but some of their FFPís are now marked ď made in JapanĒ. Not sure if they are made in Japan now, but I have read and watch a few sources that indicate they might be Japanese now.

Nice little review
https://www.northwestfirearms.com/threads/razor-hd-gen-2-vs-sig-sauer-tango-6.245589/page-2

Battle of the Japanese scopes
https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=2119s&v=9GIlwKUHAys

Custom 2000 yard build with Primary Arms Platinum
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bRoLvzy2cTY

Per NF, all ATACR and BEAST optics are assembled in IDAHO.  I do beleive the parts come from LOW in Japan.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: BullpupT on March 14, 2018, 03:08:04 PM
All NF FFP scopes are assembled in the USA.

Vortex gen 2 Razors come from LOW in Japan.  Upon arriving in the USA they are totally rebuilt with different internals @ Vortex.  The AMG is totally USA with the exception of the reticle that is sourced from Germany.

You might have been given some false information. ......

All NF use to be marked ďmade in USAĒ but some of their FFPís are now marked ď made in JapanĒ. Not sure if they are made in Japan now, but I have read and watch a few sources that indicate they might be Japanese now.

Nice little review
https://www.northwestfirearms.com/threads/razor-hd-gen-2-vs-sig-sauer-tango-6.245589/page-2

Battle of the Japanese scopes
https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=2119s&v=9GIlwKUHAys

Custom 2000 yard build with Primary Arms Platinum
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bRoLvzy2cTY

Per NF, all ATACR and BEAST optics are assembled in IDAHO.  I do beleive the parts come from LOW in Japan.

👍🏻 Thanks for the info


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: Sawdustshot on March 14, 2018, 08:04:00 PM
So, this time mounted a 5 slot Magpul MLok rail section.  Just in case I have more handguard issues, hopefully the below will show:
1.  There is in fact locking compound on the screws (my prior 3 slot MII still has Loc-Tite on it, but anyways ... ).
I can't believe this didn't occur to me when you first posted pictures of your cracked hand guard. Regular threadlocker, the stuff with methacrylate, is antagonistic to ABS and polycarbonate; the contaminated area becomes brittle and weak. If the handguard polymer contains either, such as a PA-ABS or PA-PC blend, then the loc-tite you applied caused the hand guard to crack. If it is, DT needs to let customer know. It would also mean you just borked another handguard.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on March 15, 2018, 12:02:46 AM
So, this time mounted a 5 slot Magpul MLok rail section.  Just in case I have more handguard issues, hopefully the below will show:
1.  There is in fact locking compound on the screws (my prior 3 slot MII still has Loc-Tite on it, but anyways ... ).
I can't believe this didn't occur to me when you first posted pictures of your cracked hand guard. Regular threadlocker, the stuff with methacrylate, is antagonistic to ABS and polycarbonate; the contaminated area becomes brittle and weak. If the handguard polymer contains either, such as a PA-ABS or PA-PC blend, then the loc-tite you applied caused the hand guard to crack. If it is, DT needs to let customer know. It would also mean you just borked another handguard.

So THAT would be interesting, and something I haven't thought about.  If I got the old handguard back, I'd do some testing on it, but alas, I don't.  I'm curious as to how much Loc-tite to cause any issues, however, as it's not like the handguard got 'dunked' or coated, although going from the bottom of a 30ml squeeze bottle vs syringe will almost always have a bit more than needed.

The rail section I put on was pre-threadsealed from Magpul, and looks to be more of an epoxy/putty type vs normal Loc-Tite, and considering this one itself is a polymer rail, I'm going to assume it shouldn't be a concern...


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: Chief Master on March 15, 2018, 12:49:31 AM
How come people do not consider Meopta much?

I have a 1-4X on my BREN and it has the absolute clearest glass I have ever seen and the most robust construction...even though I am changing things up a bit and will be changing it out...the Meopta scopes are great equipment with premium German Schott glass (same as S&B) with Meopta's coatings.

I also have quite a few different Meopta scopes. Their glass is extremely clear and bright. Would not hesitate to recommend Meopta to anyone. Also have Minox and Swarovski, both excellent choices. The only other scopes I have are SWFA SS and a Nikon Monarch 5 with their ED glass.

An Asian scope can be great, but certainly is not on par with good European offerings. My next scope purchase is another Meopta 4-16 ZD, followed by an SWFA 3-9 HD eventually.

Life is too short for s***ty glass that has a great warranty, because you'll need to use that warranty...

Man, I was all set on getting a Kahles K16i, and now you two have me seriously looking at Meopta. The eyebox and FOV on the Kahles are real selling points to me, though; do you know how the Meopta compares?


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: Sawdustshot on March 15, 2018, 01:01:48 AM
So THAT would be interesting, and something I haven't thought about.  If I got the old handguard back, I'd do some testing on it, but alas, I don't.  I'm curious as to how much Loc-tite to cause any issues, however, as it's not like the handguard got 'dunked' or coated, although going from the bottom of a 30ml squeeze bottle vs syringe will almost always have a bit more than needed.

The rail section I put on was pre-threadsealed from Magpul, and looks to be more of an epoxy/putty type vs normal Loc-Tite, and considering this one itself is a polymer rail, I'm going to assume it shouldn't be a concern...

You don't need to get much on there for bad things to happen; it spreads out into the polymer where it makes contact. Here you can see the damage that resulted just from contaminating the walls of the bolt holes (not my pic).
(https://s14.postimg.org/o5dm2ircd/threadlocker_damage.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/o5dm2ircd/)
The damage in the picture you posted originally looks like what I'd expect from any squeeze out between the rail and nut. Not all polymers are vulnerable to threadlocker, e.g. plain nylon and PEEK. I think all of Magpul's stuff is some grade of glass reinforced nylon.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: EWTHeckman on March 15, 2018, 01:04:23 AM
Ack! Giant Picture Alert!!   :o  :o

Please, shrink your picture.

Edit: Oh, you're already on it. Please disregard.  ;D


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: kfeltenberger on March 15, 2018, 02:45:49 AM
Man, I was all set on getting a Kahles K16i, and now you two have me seriously looking at Meopta. The eyebox and FOV on the Kahles are real selling points to me, though; do you know how the Meopta compares?

The only issues with the Kahles K16i are:  Kahles doesn't offer a K18i.  IMO, of course. When I was at Euro Optics the day I bought mine, I looked at a lot of competing optics in that class (1-6x), and none of them could compare to the Kahles. I was up there again right after Thanksgiving and I still didn't find something that checked the boxes as well as the Kahles.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: Chief Master on March 15, 2018, 10:27:16 PM
Man, I was all set on getting a Kahles K16i, and now you two have me seriously looking at Meopta. The eyebox and FOV on the Kahles are real selling points to me, though; do you know how the Meopta compares?
The only issues with the Kahles K16i are:  Kahles doesn't offer a K18i.  IMO, of course. When I was at Euro Optics the day I bought mine, I looked at a lot of competing optics in that class (1-6x), and none of them could compare to the Kahles. I was up there again right after Thanksgiving and I still didn't find something that checked the boxes as well as the Kahles.

The Kahles certainly looks like a stellar optic. But the Meopta 1-6 is several hundred dollars less, and I like the illumination dial on the Meopta (set increments with "off" setting in between them) better than on the Kahles (continuous rheostat). If its eyebox and FOV are at all comparable to the K16i, I might try to save a chunk of change and go with the Meopta.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: kfeltenberger on March 15, 2018, 10:32:27 PM
The Kahles certainly looks like a stellar optic. But the Meopta 1-6 is several hundred dollars less, and I like the illumination dial on the Meopta (set increments with "off" setting in between them) better than on the Kahles (continuous rheostat). If its eyebox and FOV are at all comparable to the K16i, I might try to save a chunk of change and go with the Meopta.

Can't say that I'm really a fan of the Meopta's reticle; it's a simple dot and crosshair, which doesn't do a whole lot for me.  I like the extra capabilities that the Kahles reticles offer.  Ideally, they'd offer the Plumb reticle, but I've waited long enough for my MDR to arrive, I'm not going to get my hopes up for something else.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: Chief Master on March 16, 2018, 02:29:20 AM
Can't say that I'm really a fan of the Meopta's reticle; it's a simple dot and crosshair, which doesn't do a whole lot for me.  I like the extra capabilities that the Kahles reticles offer.  Ideally, they'd offer the Plumb reticle, but I've waited long enough for my MDR to arrive, I'm not going to get my hopes up for something else.

I would have written off the Meopta for the same reason, but now theyíre available with a decent-looking BDC reticle.
https://www.eurooptic.com/Meopta-Meostar-R2-1-6X24-BDC-3.aspx (https://www.eurooptic.com/Meopta-Meostar-R2-1-6X24-BDC-3.aspx)

For me, it really comes down to whether the eyebox/FOV justifies the jump to the Kahles.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: maleante on March 16, 2018, 10:43:05 AM
I can't comment on the kahles, but would add that until you look through Meopta glass, I wouldn't write it off yet. The glass is that good.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: EWTHeckman on March 16, 2018, 01:35:32 PM
For me, it really comes down to whether the eyebox/FOV justifies the jump to the Kahles.

I got to take a look at the new Nightforce 1-8X at GAOS at the EuroOptic booth. They really downplayed the Kahles relative to the NF, saying that it had been surpassed, especially given the price. I didn't get to eyeball the Kahles as a result.

I'm not sure if it's true, or they just didn't want to pull out that scope. I had a heck of a time even getting to talk to someone. It took about 4 visits and essentially "crashing" someone else looking at the same scopes. I'm a little pissed at them for their readiness to simply ignore potential customers.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: kfeltenberger on March 16, 2018, 08:22:20 PM
For me, it really comes down to whether the eyebox/FOV justifies the jump to the Kahles.

I got to take a look at the new Nightforce 1-8X at GAOS at the EuroOptic booth. They really downplayed the Kahles relative to the NF, saying that it had been surpassed, especially given the price. I didn't get to eyeball the Kahles as a result.

I'm not sure if it's true, or they just didn't want to pull out that scope. I had a heck of a time even getting to talk to someone. It took about 4 visits and essentially "crashing" someone else looking at the same scopes. I'm a little pissed at them for their readiness to simply ignore potential customers.

I noticed this at the GAOS as well.  I was specifically interested in the K16i (looking at other reticles) and was "strongly guided" to the Nightforce and got an attitude when I told the guy that I had no interested in Nightforce.  That was after I waited for about ten minutes and finally had to ask for help when the guy seemed to be looking everywhere but me (at the Kahles) area.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: wagrn on March 16, 2018, 08:27:28 PM
Cold bore, do you have any info on a new longer hand gaurd, not over the suppressor but more like the original DMR type on the original display material.  I really like the 6.5 you are running, but would like to see a rail slightly longer and more slender to run out for a 18 or 20in barrel.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: Chief Master on March 16, 2018, 11:44:39 PM
For me, it really comes down to whether the eyebox/FOV justifies the jump to the Kahles.

I got to take a look at the new Nightforce 1-8X at GAOS at the EuroOptic booth. They really downplayed the Kahles relative to the NF, saying that it had been surpassed, especially given the price. I didn't get to eyeball the Kahles as a result.

I'm not sure if it's true, or they just didn't want to pull out that scope. I had a heck of a time even getting to talk to someone. It took about 4 visits and essentially "crashing" someone else looking at the same scopes. I'm a little pissed at them for their readiness to simply ignore potential customers.

I had been interested in the Nightforce, too, but I read some comments from a Nightforce employee on Snipers Hide that the NX8 eyebox and field of view were nowhere near the likes of a second focal plane Razor/K16i.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on March 17, 2018, 09:08:06 PM
Made it back out with the MDR today, although much later than planned.

The good:
No more issues with charging handle.  Ran reliably with the exception noted below.
Handguard didn't break. ;)

The not-so-good:
After shooting some without issue on the first outing, I've now hit the failure to extract/ripping rims off brass issue some have reported.  Had to use a rod to get several PPU 155gr HPBT match out of the chamber. :(

Around 140 rounds fired in total, estimated current round count around 300.  Shot a bunch of N round groups, ranging from 5-10 rounds. 
Wasn't having a particularly on day, maybe because it started with re-zero in the Spuhr mount followed by what amounted to scattershot with the 80s surplus ball ammo that had me scratching my head to the point of loosening and re-torqueing the barrel, checking Spuhr base and rings (which were good to go), followed by the 'joys' of ripping the rims off of the PPU brass which previously had run OK through the MDR.

Best group was again from the Hornady 155gr A-Max, but today I was a bit over MOA.  Need to scan through the rest, but FGMM 175 SMKs were again unimpressive for me vs the Amax.  Wasn't overly fond of what the Hornady Factory Match 178gr BTHPs were doing either.  Hornady Steel Match 155gr seemed a bit behind the Amax, but going from memory - will scan through target collection later.

I think next real outing will wind up being bringing some load workups using 155gr and 175gr SMKs, and possibly some 178gr Hornady BTHPs, simply because I have both of the latter on hand, and dong some chrono time for reference, and taking it out to 300 or more.

(some of) the failed to extract rounds:
(https://i.imgur.com/pkQrE5g.jpg)

 


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: whiskey91lima on March 17, 2018, 10:08:16 PM
rtp, I just took my MDR to the range for the first time and followed DTís break-in procedures per the leaflet that came with the rifle. I had the same issue that started presenting itself after 75 rnds.

All in all, here are the issues that all occurred after 75 rounds:
- 6x stuck cases, 3 of which completely stripped the heads of the cases.
- 3x trigger failure to reset
- Charging handle failure to load forward on approx 1/5 of strings
- Dust cover remaining closed causing a FTE on approx 1/3 of shots with dust cover closed
- A brand new 25rnd Gen 3 PMAG would drop free on recoil even if there was only one round in the mag. I had suspicions on another brand new 10rnd Gen 3 PMAG but it never dropped free.

Ammo used:
- ZQI 7.62 NATO M80
- Lithuania surplus 7.62 NATO M80

At this point, I am assuming that the gun needs a thorough cleaning. My plan is to only clean the gun per DT direction as laid out in the manual. If any of these issues persist (except CHP, personally I donít care about the CHP), I will contact DT warranty.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: thehun on March 17, 2018, 10:35:08 PM
I thought 1:10 suppose to like heavier grain bullets...any idea why your MDR prefers lighter grain ammo?


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: Potss on March 17, 2018, 11:15:20 PM
thehun, rifling twist rate will not effect accuracy this close in as long as the bullet is stabilized.  That is a myth that needs to die.  Even if the bullet is over/under stabilized, as long as it is within the acceptable range (which 155gr rounds are) you generally won't see a difference until way out near transonic all else being equal.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on March 18, 2018, 12:44:59 AM
rtp, I just took my MDR to the range for the first time and followed DTís break-in procedures per the leaflet that came with the rifle. I had the same issue that started presenting itself after 75 rnds.

All in all, here are the issues that all occurred after 75 rounds:
- 6x stuck cases, 3 of which completely stripped the heads of the cases.
- 3x trigger failure to reset
- Charging handle failure to load forward on approx 1/5 of strings
- Dust cover remaining closed causing a FTE on approx 1/3 of shots with dust cover closed
- A brand new 25rnd Gen 3 PMAG would drop free on recoil even if there was only one round in the mag. I had suspicions on another brand new 10rnd Gen 3 PMAG but it never dropped free.

Ammo used:
- ZQI 7.62 NATO M80
- Lithuania surplus 7.62 NATO M80

At this point, I am assuming that the gun needs a thorough cleaning. My plan is to only clean the gun per DT direction as laid out in the manual. If any of these issues persist (except CHP, personally I donít care about the CHP), I will contact DT warranty.

Damn, that's quite the list! :(
We're you running bad on normal or adverse?
I ran on adverse on a cleaned and lube slightly sweet gun other than I left the DT lithium looking grease on the scissor mechanism.

No dropped mags to date nor failure to reset trigger.
Will have to intentionally close the dust cover between shots next time out blowing through some of the crap surplus ball next time.

Can you explain your charging handle issue more?



Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on March 18, 2018, 12:52:17 AM
I thought 1:10 suppose to like heavier grain bullets...any idea why your MDR prefers lighter grain ammo?

It's as Potts stated, and beyond that the SMK 168 and 175s aren't always the best at shorter range vs others while the 168 does pretty well out to 600+ but completely sucks once it goes subsonic/trans-sonic while the 175 weathers that better.  I'm still somewhat surprised as both the Outback 168gr SMK and the FGMM 175 SMKs perform pretty well at 100 in many rifles, but will see what happens going out further in the future.



Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: whiskey91lima on March 18, 2018, 02:05:03 AM
rtp, I just took my MDR to the range for the first time and followed DTís break-in procedures per the leaflet that came with the rifle. I had the same issue that started presenting itself after 75 rnds.

All in all, here are the issues that all occurred after 75 rounds:
- 6x stuck cases, 3 of which completely stripped the heads of the cases.
- 3x trigger failure to reset
- Charging handle failure to load forward on approx 1/5 of strings
- Dust cover remaining closed causing a FTE on approx 1/3 of shots with dust cover closed
- A brand new 25rnd Gen 3 PMAG would drop free on recoil even if there was only one round in the mag. I had suspicions on another brand new 10rnd Gen 3 PMAG but it never dropped free.

Ammo used:
- ZQI 7.62 NATO M80
- Lithuania surplus 7.62 NATO M80

At this point, I am assuming that the gun needs a thorough cleaning. My plan is to only clean the gun per DT direction as laid out in the manual. If any of these issues persist (except CHP, personally I donít care about the CHP), I will contact DT warranty.

Damn, that's quite the list! :(
We're you running bad on normal or adverse?
I ran on adverse on a cleaned and lube slightly sweet gun other than I left the DT lithium looking grease on the scissor mechanism.

No dropped mags to date nor failure to reset trigger.
Will have to intentionally close the dust cover between shots next time out blowing through some of the crap surplus ball next time.

Can you explain your charging handle issue more?

I was running in adverse until the first stripped case head like the manual said. Then I switched to normal and problems increased exponentially.

The mag drop issue I believe is specific to the magazine. It appears as if the catch-well in the magazine itself is not as deep as it should be, so the mag catch doesnít fully seat. I can visually see that the catch doesnít fully seat. More testing is required.

The charging handle problem is the same as originally reported months ago. The handle doesnít always stay locked in the forward position. Itís obvious on the last round fired because itís halfway back.

I decided to open up the rifle for a good clean per the manual recommendations and was met by a large chunk of polymer and a steel pin floating in the lower. Savanging the exploded diagrams and field dissassembling the rifle, the polymer appears to be from the bottom of the stock internals. And I have no idea where the pin is from. The pin does not look seared.

On close inspection of the gas valve, it looks like the normal and adverse are the same size. It also looks like there is some gas blow-by of the gas port as if there isnít a good seal by the valve. The hole size difference may be too small to see with the naked eye. Maybe the normal setting is overgassed on my rifle?

Overall, with the numerous failures and either broken or worked free parts in less than 200 rnds. I am disappointed.



Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: JesseJames38 on March 18, 2018, 02:14:34 AM
rtp, I just took my MDR to the range for the first time and followed DTís break-in procedures per the leaflet that came with the rifle. I had the same issue that started presenting itself after 75 rnds.

All in all, here are the issues that all occurred after 75 rounds:
- 6x stuck cases, 3 of which completely stripped the heads of the cases.
- 3x trigger failure to reset
- Charging handle failure to load forward on approx 1/5 of strings
- Dust cover remaining closed causing a FTE on approx 1/3 of shots with dust cover closed
- A brand new 25rnd Gen 3 PMAG would drop free on recoil even if there was only one round in the mag. I had suspicions on another brand new 10rnd Gen 3 PMAG but it never dropped free.

Ammo used:
- ZQI 7.62 NATO M80
- Lithuania surplus 7.62 NATO M80

At this point, I am assuming that the gun needs a thorough cleaning. My plan is to only clean the gun per DT direction as laid out in the manual. If any of these issues persist (except CHP, personally I donít care about the CHP), I will contact DT warranty.

Damn, that's quite the list! :(
We're you running bad on normal or adverse?
I ran on adverse on a cleaned and lube slightly sweet gun other than I left the DT lithium looking grease on the scissor mechanism.

No dropped mags to date nor failure to reset trigger.
Will have to intentionally close the dust cover between shots next time out blowing through some of the crap surplus ball next time.

Can you explain your charging handle issue more?

I was running in adverse until the first stripped case head like the manual said. Then I switched to normal and problems increased exponentially.

The mag drop issue I believe is specific to the magazine. It appears as if the catch-well in the magazine itself is not as deep as it should be, so the mag catch doesnít fully seat. I can visually see that the catch doesnít fully seat. More testing is required.

The charging handle problem is the same as originally reported months ago. The handle doesnít always stay locked in the forward position. Itís obvious on the last round fired because itís halfway back.

I decided to open up the rifle for a good clean per the manual recommendations and was met by a large chunk of polymer and a steel pin floating in the lower. Savanging the exploded diagrams and field dissassembling the rifle, the polymer appears to be from the bottom of the stock internals. And I have no idea where the pin is from. The pin does not look seared.

On close inspection of the gas valve, it looks like the normal and adverse are the same size. It also looks like there is some gas blow-by of the gas port as if there isnít a good seal by the valve. The hole size difference may be too small to see with the naked eye. Maybe the normal setting is overgassed on my rifle?

Overall, with the numerous failures and either broken or worked free parts in less than 200 rnds. I am disappointed.



Is it possible its the same pin that Siris had walking out of his counterbalance for the forward magazine release?


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: whiskey91lima on March 18, 2018, 09:17:26 AM
Yes, it appears to be the same pin.

https://imgur.com/gallery/mQmPM (https://imgur.com/gallery/mQmPM)


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: Aussie E on March 18, 2018, 10:54:25 AM
Seems to me my first run MDR had better QC than this shipment.

AE


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: HBeretta on March 18, 2018, 11:28:13 AM

I was running in adverse until the first stripped case head like the manual said. Then I switched to normal and problems increased exponentially.

The mag drop issue I believe is specific to the magazine. It appears as if the catch-well in the magazine itself is not as deep as it should be, so the mag catch doesnít fully seat. I can visually see that the catch doesnít fully seat. More testing is required.

The charging handle problem is the same as originally reported months ago. The handle doesnít always stay locked in the forward position. Itís obvious on the last round fired because itís halfway back.

I decided to open up the rifle for a good clean per the manual recommendations and was met by a large chunk of polymer and a steel pin floating in the lower. Savanging the exploded diagrams and field dissassembling the rifle, the polymer appears to be from the bottom of the stock internals. And I have no idea where the pin is from. The pin does not look seared.

On close inspection of the gas valve, it looks like the normal and adverse are the same size. It also looks like there is some gas blow-by of the gas port as if there isnít a good seal by the valve. The hole size difference may be too small to see with the naked eye. Maybe the normal setting is overgassed on my rifle?

Overall, with the numerous failures and either broken or worked free parts in less than 200 rnds. I am disappointed.


damn man...that sucks.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: thehun on March 18, 2018, 03:49:53 PM

[/quote]

I was running in adverse until the first stripped case head like the manual said. Then I switched to normal and problems increased exponentially.

The mag drop issue I believe is specific to the magazine. It appears as if the catch-well in the magazine itself is not as deep as it should be, so the mag catch doesnít fully seat. I can visually see that the catch doesnít fully seat. More testing is required.

The charging handle problem is the same as originally reported months ago. The handle doesnít always stay locked in the forward position. Itís obvious on the last round fired because itís halfway back.

I decided to open up the rifle for a good clean per the manual recommendations and was met by a large chunk of polymer and a steel pin floating in the lower. Savanging the exploded diagrams and field dissassembling the rifle, the polymer appears to be from the bottom of the stock internals. And I have no idea where the pin is from. The pin does not look seared.

On close inspection of the gas valve, it looks like the normal and adverse are the same size. It also looks like there is some gas blow-by of the gas port as if there isnít a good seal by the valve. The hole size difference may be too small to see with the naked eye. Maybe the normal setting is overgassed on my rifle?

Overall, with the numerous failures and either broken or worked free parts in less than 200 rnds. I am disappointed.


[/quote]

Sorry to hear. This is disappointing.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: kfeltenberger on March 18, 2018, 09:55:53 PM
The charging handle problem is the same as originally reported months ago. The handle doesnít always stay locked in the forward position. Itís obvious on the last round fired because itís halfway back.

I meant to comment on this earlier but checked it on my phone and then when I got home it didn't flag as new.

Take a look at the pivot assembly on the charging handle and give it a good cleaning and then work it a bit.  When I mentioned the geometry of the charging handle (it pushes up rather than down at the front, and the potential issues) to Nick, he explained why they did it and added this:  Usually when the handle reciprocates then it is in need of cleaning of the pivoting joint on the charging handle.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: HBeretta on March 18, 2018, 10:34:04 PM
The charging handle problem is the same as originally reported months ago. The handle doesnít always stay locked in the forward position. Itís obvious on the last round fired because itís halfway back.

I meant to comment on this earlier but checked it on my phone and then when I got home it didn't flag as new.

Take a look at the pivot assembly on the charging handle and give it a good cleaning and then work it a bit.  When I mentioned the geometry of the charging handle (it pushes up rather than down at the front, and the potential issues) to Nick, he explained why they did it and added this:  Usually when the handle reciprocates then it is in need of cleaning of the pivoting joint on the charging handle.

isn't his rifle brand new though?  it should hold whether it's clean or not.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: kfeltenberger on March 18, 2018, 10:55:18 PM
isn't his rifle brand new though?  it should hold whether it's clean or not.

If you saw how it works, you'd understand.  If the hinge point doesn't pivot properly, then the handle won't fold upwards.  Beyond that, I'm just repeating what I was told; have questions or complaints, don't come to me.   :)


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: newguy2k3 on March 18, 2018, 11:24:07 PM
I got out with mine today and ran another 60rds through it. Had a few trigger related issues. Failure to reset and light strikes. Had loaded up a couple brownells mags and had a few mag related feeding issues. I didn't see what the hangup actually was but it was hanging up as it was stripping the next round. Bumped the mag and it unstuck. My modified brass catcher worked as intended.

Has my 16" MWS out too. First time I've shot them back to back. It's about a pound heavier and obviously more front heavy but even being overgassed shoots softer than the mdr and is faster back on target. Some of that is probably just not being used to the mdr though. Trigger comparison is not even funny(geiselle).


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: JesseJames38 on March 18, 2018, 11:38:19 PM
I am still excited about getting my MDR some day,  But I will be honest  with these past couple updates, both rifles having the pin walking out I am feeling a little less excited.  Perhaps this is just a small fluke.   As for the rims being ripped off the heads being a common occurrence with quite a few of the rifles I am feeling kind of nervous about that.   I never had a rifle tare off rims or had stuck casings. From what I read from other rifles, it seems this case issue points to it being over gassed, and if it is then I wonder how much over gassed it is in the adverse setting. On the other hand I wonder if maybe its the point they decided to put the gas port.  Perhaps if it was more at the muzzle it would be less likely to rip off the rims.




Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: Ditcher on March 19, 2018, 12:00:46 AM
I am still excited about getting my MDR some day,  But I will be honest  with these past couple updates, both rifles having the pin walking out I am feeling a little less excited.  Perhaps this is just a small fluke.   As for the rims being ripped off the heads being a common occurrence with quite a few of the rifles I am feeling kind of nervous about that.   I never had a rifle tare off rims or had stuck casings. From what I read from other rifles, it seems this case issue points to it being over gassed, and if it is then I wonder how much over gassed it is in the adverse setting. On the other hand I wonder if maybe its the point they decided to put the gas port.  Perhaps if it was more at the muzzle it would be less likely to rip off the rims.




Be interesting to see how the 6.5C conversion kit treats the brass.  I'm thinking its tuned lot better though.


Title: Re: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: ES Tactical on March 19, 2018, 01:41:06 AM
I am still excited about getting my MDR some day,  But I will be honest  with these past couple updates, both rifles having the pin walking out I am feeling a little less excited.  Perhaps this is just a small fluke.   As for the rims being ripped off the heads being a common occurrence with quite a few of the rifles I am feeling kind of nervous about that.   I never had a rifle tare off rims or had stuck casings. From what I read from other rifles, it seems this case issue points to it being over gassed, and if it is then I wonder how much over gassed it is in the adverse setting. On the other hand I wonder if maybe its the point they decided to put the gas port.  Perhaps if it was more at the muzzle it would be less likely to rip off the rims.




Be interesting to see how the 6.5C conversion kit treats the brass.  I'm thinking its tuned lot better though.
We do have our valve ported a little different. In the rifles we have shot, as well as customer reports, the brass is good. Only complaint is smokey brass, but that is expected when shooting suppressed.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk



Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: thehun on March 19, 2018, 10:17:08 AM
I am still excited about getting my MDR some day,  But I will be honest  with these past couple updates, both rifles having the pin walking out I am feeling a little less excited.  Perhaps this is just a small fluke.   As for the rims being ripped off the heads being a common occurrence with quite a few of the rifles I am feeling kind of nervous about that.   I never had a rifle tare off rims or had stuck casings. From what I read from other rifles, it seems this case issue points to it being over gassed, and if it is then I wonder how much over gassed it is in the adverse setting. On the other hand I wonder if maybe its the point they decided to put the gas port.  Perhaps if it was more at the muzzle it would be less likely to rip off the rims.




Iíll be honest. Every video Iíve seen of the MDR 308 shows a much more violent action than other semi auto 308 Iíve seen, including the LMT which is known for being over gassed,which points to being way over gassed and it would actually explain the broken pins, ripping of brass, polymers breaking etc. The MDR I think is beating itself.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: whiskey91lima on March 19, 2018, 12:26:15 PM
I am still excited about getting my MDR some day,  But I will be honest  with these past couple updates, both rifles having the pin walking out I am feeling a little less excited.  Perhaps this is just a small fluke.   As for the rims being ripped off the heads being a common occurrence with quite a few of the rifles I am feeling kind of nervous about that.   I never had a rifle tare off rims or had stuck casings. From what I read from other rifles, it seems this case issue points to it being over gassed, and if it is then I wonder how much over gassed it is in the adverse setting. On the other hand I wonder if maybe its the point they decided to put the gas port.  Perhaps if it was more at the muzzle it would be less likely to rip off the rims.




Iíll be honest. Every video Iíve seen of the MDR 308 shows a much more violent action than other semi auto 308 Iíve seen, including the LMT which is known for being over gassed,which points to being way over gassed and it would actually explain the broken pins, ripping of brass, polymers breaking etc. The MDR I think is beating itself.

The recoil is much heavier than I expected. Granted, my only experience with a .308 is with heavier guns, but my should gets a deep bruise every time I go the range.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: newguy2k3 on March 19, 2018, 01:24:26 PM
I've been curious about how the creedmoors run as well given the gas port location. Given that we're at rifle length +2 on 20-22" di guns to not tear up brass. I'm thinking an ar is gonna have more mass to the BCG and buffer compared to the mdr. The mdr port placement is the equivalent of carbine or a bit longer. I would think it has to be a fine line getting the creedmoor to run.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on March 24, 2018, 09:04:21 PM
Likely no range time this week but should be back at it next weekend.
As it's near impossible to get both a mount and optic in FDE or variant, and continue really wanting to just Dura-coat the whole rifle and optic a desert digital or ATACS-AU, but still undecided on keeping all, some or none of the above.. cheeped out for now, scope wrap. 
(https://i.imgur.com/ObMzyCF.jpg)

Found what looked to be a killer deal on a VertX Medium Messenger bag, so had it waiting for return from a work trip. 
Short version - the bag screams being well thought out, but I wish it were about an inch longer internally, and maybe not black, but had to try it for $50.  It's a single sling type bag, but with the right combo, you might be able to get 3 rifles, a pistol or two, and mags, so going to have to play with it a bit to see how I want to load it out.

Front of bag:
(https://i.imgur.com/eqtWAxI.jpg)

Opening the front flap there's a pair of zipper compartments, plus a full length (but only on top, not wrap-around) compartment.  Can easily get  pistol or two in one and mags across both.
(https://i.imgur.com/XWjNG7i.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/qGE42By.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Qq8JA5d.jpg)

The back of the bag has a single sling setup, with a 3 side wrap-around zipper.  There's a slight bevel to the sides, and I do wish the bag were very slightly longer, but it has velcro sections, tie-down sections, and a section of padding for multiple rifles, etc.  Love the lighter colored interior - something I wish all bags had.
(https://i.imgur.com/5GiLIwk.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/T47kHnl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/NI9XqrN.jpg)

And of course, the MDR 'test fit' into it:
(https://i.imgur.com/fOrLFk9.jpg)

Finally, had something else show up.  TBD on where it winds up.  If I pick up my 5.56 MDR once they become available, this is likely going on it.  Until then, once I get some time in on load development, I may swap out the DMR2 for this guy.
(https://i.imgur.com/lP8RZbe.jpg)


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: thehun on March 24, 2018, 10:06:53 PM
Good choice on Minox.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: kfeltenberger on March 24, 2018, 11:47:17 PM
I have both the Vertx Messenger Bag and their Garment Bag (among other packs and bags of theirs) and they are about the best I've seen, especially for the price.  I was in a very liberal area of Philly last fall with the garment bag (and assorted firearms inside it) and no one paid me any attention.

On the Minox...I wanted one, and probably still do, but when I looked at their product mix, I had a difficult time shelling out that kind of cash for the ZP8 when most of the rest of their line was much, much less expensive (hundreds rather than thousands of dollars).  What are your out of the box impressions of it?


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on March 25, 2018, 12:32:44 AM
I have both the Vertx Messenger Bag and their Garment Bag (among other packs and bags of theirs) and they are about the best I've seen, especially for the price.  I was in a very liberal area of Philly last fall with the garment bag (and assorted firearms inside it) and no one paid me any attention.

On the Minox...I wanted one, and probably still do, but when I looked at their product mix, I had a difficult time shelling out that kind of cash for the ZP8 when most of the rest of their line was much, much less expensive (hundreds rather than thousands of dollars).  What are your out of the box impressions of it?

I need to play with bag setup for both the MDR and AUG but at the price I might just have to get another.  How has it held up over time?

The Minox zp lineup I believe came out of optronika/Premier designs, which TT also used as a basis for the TT ($$$) scopes. Just back from a bus. trip so not a lot of time with yet, but it seems to be built like a tank.  The turrets lock at zero which the new Nightforces do not, with solid zero stops. The turrets feel like a Precision/LR turret should - very audible as well as tactile clicks. The illumination adjustment also locks along with having off positions in between illumination levels.

Turrets are slightly on the stiff side but they may lighten up and its minor, moreso as a LPV.
The second goal plane dot crossover is neat. Illumination had auto shutoff but unsure as to when, need to check the manual but for me the standard here is my vx6 which sits of after 5mins inactive and turns back on before you can get the rifle back to your eye.  I think the Minox is more to not kill the battery completely vs leaving the vx6 always on except for transport. Will confirm tomorrow.

Glass and reticle are nice but need to spend more time with.  Unmounted seems like the eyelid tightens up at 8x but it's to be expected and not yet sure how much real impact it will or won't have one mounted properly.  I believe the second goal plane dot will be effectively daylight bright but not Aimpoint bright, want to compare it to my vx6 Firedot which for me has always been daylight bright.

It's not light, but again with both 1-8 and a 34mm tube, I'm not sure how light one can expect to get.  Would be interesting to compare to both the NX8 and the ATACR RE eyebox and glass across the full magnification range.  

From some side to side estimation next to the DMR2 on my shouldered MDR, it can sit back slightly further a bit so rings might be an option on the MDR or AUG vs buying another Spuhr.

Oh, and having a locking diopter is very nice as well.
More as I get time behind it.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: Chief Master on April 01, 2018, 02:59:53 PM
For me, it really comes down to whether the eyebox/FOV justifies the jump to the Kahles.
I got to take a look at the new Nightforce 1-8X at GAOS at the EuroOptic booth. They really downplayed the Kahles relative to the NF, saying that it had been surpassed, especially given the price. I didn't get to eyeball the Kahles as a result...
I noticed this at the GAOS as well.  I was specifically interested in the K16i (looking at other reticles) and was "strongly guided" to the Nightforce and got an attitude when I told the guy that I had no interested in Nightforce.  That was after I waited for about ten minutes and finally had to ask for help when the guy seemed to be looking everywhere but me (at the Kahles) area.

Someone recently posted a youtube video looking through both the NX8 and the K16i with the new 3GR reticle (link below). The eyebox and FOV through the Kahles looks considerably better. I also noticed that the illumination for the NX8 cuts out when the image disappears, but the reticle on the K16i stays illuminated even when outside of the image eyebox.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3hfcRqlFxw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3hfcRqlFxw)


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: Chief Master on April 01, 2018, 03:30:42 PM
I need to play with bag setup for both the MDR and AUG but at the price I might just have to get another.

rtp, you said you got that messenger bag for $50. If there are multiple available, do you mind sharing your source?  ;)

LA Police gear has the medium messenger bags for $80 and the large bags for $90, but I couldn't find anyone that had them for what you got yours for. Thanks!


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: kfeltenberger on April 01, 2018, 07:23:02 PM
I need to play with bag setup for both the MDR and AUG but at the price I might just have to get another.

rtp, you said you got that messenger bag for $50. If there are multiple available, do you mind sharing your source?  ;)

LA Police gear has the medium messenger bags for $80 and the large bags for $90, but I couldn't find anyone that had them for what you got yours for. Thanks!


IIRC, Vertx ran a sale on them and Dvor had them as well. 


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on April 01, 2018, 08:21:31 PM
I need to play with bag setup for both the MDR and AUG but at the price I might just have to get another.

rtp, you said you got that messenger bag for $50. If there are multiple available, do you mind sharing your source?  ;)

LA Police gear has the medium messenger bags for $80 and the large bags for $90, but I couldn't find anyone that had them for what you got yours for. Thanks!


Checked receipts - looked like a one-time mail or something, but I paid $56 for it via LAPG.

I went back to order another + a large one and saw the same pricing you quoted above - $80 for medium and $90 for large, while Amazon and elsewhere is still closer to $200.  If no better code exists, I think 'lapg5' at minimum always works for 5% off.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: bedwyr on April 01, 2018, 08:50:18 PM
I liked that bag so much I picked one up. LAPG has a 15% coupon now for fools day. Worked out well. Thanks.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: kfeltenberger on April 01, 2018, 09:11:04 PM
I liked that bag so much I picked one up. LAPG has a 15% coupon now for fools day. Worked out well. Thanks.

I've found that Vertx has some of the better thought out products on the market.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: JesseJames38 on April 05, 2018, 08:21:22 PM
Just picked my rifle up today.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: Steelviper on April 05, 2018, 08:51:24 PM
What optic is that? Doesnít look like the typical EOTECHS


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: kfeltenberger on April 05, 2018, 10:29:21 PM
What optic is that? Doesnít look like the typical EOTECHS

Looks like the one Mikey Hartman developed, the MH-1.

http://hartman-il.com/ (http://hartman-il.com/)


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: JesseJames38 on April 06, 2018, 01:10:38 AM
Kfeltenberger is correct. the optic on the rifle is the Hartman MH-1. 

Jesse.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on April 21, 2018, 07:50:44 PM
Finally made it back out to shoot the MDR some today.
Round count: M80 surplus ball: 70 rounds, no issues.  ~1.5-2MOA depending on target and round.
Hornady steel match 155gr - 6 rounds, ~2MOA for today
Speer LE 150gr GDSP - 5rds, 2 MOA
PMC Bronze 147gr FMJBT, 20rds, 1.75MOA
Federal PowerShok 180gr, 5rds.  Suck.  4x at 2MOA, nasty flyer = 3.5MOA
PMC Xtac Match 168gr, 10rd.  Might have done better, 3x sub-MOA, 2x added coming in at 2.5MOA.
IMI Match 168gr, 5 rounds attempted, but rims ripped off, had to rod out.  4 shot 1.25MOA
IMI Match 175gr, 5 rounds attempted, ripped off rims, had to rod out.  Unable to shoot more IMI.
FGMM Match 175gr, 4rds, 1.3MOA
Round count for today: ~122rds.  Total rifle count: 382rds

Beyond the suck of ripping rims off of both PPU Match and now IMI Match ammo, I noticed the charging handle, which it had been sent back for previously for failure to lock solidly on the left hand side...now can't be released from the right hand side.  I don't care a whole lot on this one immediately, and will see what develops, but does make me have some concerns about relatively overly-tight tolerances in the changing handle mechanism.  Will see what happens.  Locks up solidly on the left hand side.

Swapped out the DMR2 towards the end of the day sighting in the Minox ZP8 and to do some steel blasting at 100 and 200yds.  Worked well, next outing will probably start with the Minox, bring the chrono and do some longer range shooting.  If I can get my reloading room set back up (new to us house not long ago, neglected reloading bench needing to move upstairs), may do some load workups.

Ran like a sewing machine with the crappy surplus M80 ball, perfectly acceptable at 2MOA-ish at 100, sometimes better, and blasting steel gongs. 
I remain concerned about it doesn't run everything - whether or not we're now saying both PPU and IMI brass is both 'soft' or not, it should run reliably. 
Will contact DT - they're aware of my prior PPU Match having the rims ripped off, now add the IMI Match to the mix. 
Hoping an updated gas adjustment w/more positions can resolve the issue, while hoping it's not in need of a bolt/trunnion re-design to reliable fire and extract all comers.  Debating on whether or not to do some very minor chamber polishing, but will see what DT says first.

Pics of ripped rims and the 'follow-up' round as the MDR tried to feed the next round into the blocked/stuck case. 
(https://i.imgur.com/mpvQgFC.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/HUNWuBX.jpg)


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: JesseJames38 on April 21, 2018, 08:04:13 PM
Yeah that sucks its ripping off the rims.  Honestly the way the ejector is set up and how the bolt is made. I really wonder if it may be possible to cut off that bottom leg of the bolt and put a second extractor in its place. This would give more surface area to remove the casing. and being that the shell is being pushed to the side by the scissor mech it may not interfere with having a second extractor at the bottom.   As for how well it would work out in practice I am not sure. But I don't think its a bad idea

Jesse


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: Glorfindel on April 21, 2018, 08:14:08 PM
An idea I had for more extractor surface area is simply to give up on the bolt being ambidextrous without flipping it or anything. For me, the forward eject is sufficient ambidexterity. I would love to have a dedicated right hander bolt with more extractor surface area.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: Siris on April 21, 2018, 08:31:32 PM
Now granted I'm going on a sample size of one but I've not had any issues with torn rims in mine. Could this be an over gas issue maybe? What kind of ammo are you using? For the record I've used M-80, federal match, and some hand loads in mine so far.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on April 21, 2018, 08:46:43 PM
Now granted I'm going on a sample size of one but I've not had any issues with torn rims in mine. Could this be an over gas issue maybe? What kind of ammo are you using? For the record I've used M-80, federal match, and some hand loads in mine so far.

This thread as well as last post lists all ammo to date.  I bought a buttload  of ammo to see what it liked and didn't.
It rips the rims off of PPU match and IMI match ammo, resulting in a stuck case which must be rodded out.  Gas set to normal, has the brazed sleeve in the gas plug, running on normal gas setting.

Haven't had issues with ancient surplus m80 ball, FGMM or others, at least not causing stuck cases...but probably should examine that brass a bit more to see if it remains reload able or not.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: Box on April 21, 2018, 11:06:18 PM
Thanks for the updates.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: rtp on July 04, 2018, 08:51:23 PM
I liked that bag so much I picked one up. LAPG has a 15% coupon now for fools day. Worked out well. Thanks.

I've found that Vertx has some of the better thought out products on the market.

Wow. The VertX bag is now on sale for $38!!  I may need to buy more for the hell of it!
 (https://lapolicegear.com/vtx-5060-medium-messenger.html[/url)


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: Heavy on July 04, 2018, 09:11:09 PM
I liked that bag so much I picked one up. LAPG has a 15% coupon now for fools day. Worked out well. Thanks.

I've found that Vertx has some of the better thought out products on the market.

Wow. The VertX bag is now on sale for $38!!  I may need to buy more for the he'll of it!
https://lapolicegear.com/vtx-5060-medium-messenger.html?SID=47bc8b20ee7e5696b583e0b1a94b62ea&trk_msg=EU588AKHDUB4RB2TNUKGTK84GO&trk_contact=VN6CJG3AURIR6LEBU33MP301IS&trk_module=arm&trk_sid=3UN1NF4EIUR9C95HC2CT9CGT3C&utm_source=Listrak&utm_medium=Email&utm_term=Product&utm_campaign=Recommender+Evergreen&utm_content=Recommender+Evergreen (https://lapolicegear.com/vtx-5060-medium-messenger.html?SID=47bc8b20ee7e5696b583e0b1a94b62ea&trk_msg=EU588AKHDUB4RB2TNUKGTK84GO&trk_contact=VN6CJG3AURIR6LEBU33MP301IS&trk_module=arm&trk_sid=3UN1NF4EIUR9C95HC2CT9CGT3C&utm_source=Listrak&utm_medium=Email&utm_term=Product&utm_campaign=Recommender+Evergreen&utm_content=Recommender+Evergreen)

Thanks for the link. Got 2. My bud who paid $200 for his will be fuming when i tell him.


Title: Re: MDR kitting out
Post by: kfeltenberger on July 04, 2018, 09:48:21 PM
Just make sure you're aware on the dimensions of this bag that LAPG is offering; it'll handle rifles up to about 28".