BULLPUP FORUM

Bullpup Rifles (Auto & Semi-Auto Centerfire) => IWI Tavor & X-95 => Topic started by: FLShutterbug55 on July 15, 2017, 09:41:57 PM



Title: Shooting a Tavor X95 from support shoulder
Post by: FLShutterbug55 on July 15, 2017, 09:41:57 PM
I compete in monthly "Carbine Match" events at my local Rifle & Pistol club with an AR presently.  I want to use my 5.56x45 Tavor X95 instead but there is always at least one stage where the course of fire requires engaging one set of targets from strong shoulder, another set from support shoulder, and the final set from either shoulder.  The User's guide that came with my Tavor X95 clearly addresses this type of usage and cautions that shooting from the left shoulder should only be done after the gun has been converted from right handed use to left handed use and vice versa.  When shooting a course of fire with the clock running, there isn't time to convert a Favor X95 so it would have to be fired as is with the ejected brass being kicked out very close to the shooter's face.  Has anyone done this and if so, is it safe to do?  I realize that the User's manual may be overly cautious for legal reasons.


Title: Re: Shooting a Tavor X95 from support shoulder
Post by: RabbitSlayer on July 15, 2017, 11:07:10 PM
I shoot mine from both shoulders .  There is no reason not to, it won't hurt you.  I actually find shoulder transitions faster with the tavor than full size rifles.

My only advice is try to weld your cheek closer to the stock by your shoulder, if you cheek weld too far forward brass might hit your chin, but even when it does it does NOT hurt.  The brass ejection is very soft, and you won't even feel the brass hit your chin.

There are literally hundreds of videos on YouTube of people swapping shoulders with their tavors.  It's almost no different than shooting an AR left handed. 

The only way it would be significantly unpleasant is if you have an overgassed suppressor on your gun, even then you would have to rapid fire to get gassed out.

I'm surprised you posted such a silly question, just go out and shoot it.

If you shoot competition then your stance and cheek weld I would imagine are squared, resulting in zero issue shooting left handed.  Just don't cover the entire ejection port with your face, which would be kind of hard to do in my opinion. :o




Title: Re: Shooting a Tavor X95 from support shoulder
Post by: Heavy on July 15, 2017, 11:39:13 PM
There is also an angled deflector on bullpup armory. Gives brass a more downward trajectory. Not perfect, but not right in the chin either.


Title: Re: Shooting a Tavor X95 from support shoulder
Post by: Hivedr. on July 15, 2017, 11:50:01 PM
I compete in monthly "Carbine Match" events at my local Rifle & Pistol club with an AR presently.  I want to use my 5.56x45 Tavor X95 instead but there is always at least one stage where the course of fire requires engaging one set of targets from strong shoulder, another set from support shoulder, and the final set from either shoulder.  The User's guide that came with my Tavor X95 clearly addresses this type of usage and cautions that shooting from the left shoulder should only be done after the gun has been converted from right handed use to left handed use and vice versa.  When shooting a course of fire with the clock running, there isn't time to convert a Favor X95 so it would have to be fired as is with the ejected brass being kicked out very close to the shooter's face.  Has anyone done this and if so, is it safe to do?  I realize that the User's manual may be overly cautious for legal reasons.

As stated there are aftermarket deflectors also the X95/SAR deflectors are designed around 5.56 pressure ammo not .223 pressure and thus differences in ejection forces and pattern occur between the two.  With 5.56 you should not be hit with brass at all unless you place your face over the ejection port. With .223 the brass will slightly graze your chin. 





Title: Re: Shooting a Tavor X95 from support shoulder
Post by: Hivedr. on July 15, 2017, 11:50:43 PM
  
Double post




Title: Re: Shooting a Tavor X95 from support shoulder
Post by: surfdog101 on July 16, 2017, 04:11:50 PM
I'm a left hand left eye shooter, but spent about 6 months shooting my x95 in the right hand configuration before taking the time and effort to switch over. I had no problems shooting it on the "wrong" side. I think  the only thing is just to keep your face behind the deflector to reduce the rounds flying in your face.

You may want to practice canting the rifle or tilting your head slightly to determine the proper cheek weld before the day of the match so you won't be wasting time hunting for your red dot during the match. 


Title: Re: Shooting a Tavor X95 from support shoulder
Post by: FLShutterbug55 on July 17, 2017, 09:50:26 PM
I shoot mine from both shoulders .  There is no reason not to, it won't hurt you.  I actually find shoulder transitions faster with the tavor than full size rifles.

My only advice is try to weld your cheek closer to the stock by your shoulder, if you cheek weld too far forward brass might hit your chin, but even when it does it does NOT hurt.  The brass ejection is very soft, and you won't even feel the brass hit your chin.

There are literally hundreds of videos on YouTube of people swapping shoulders with their tavors.  It's almost no different than shooting an AR left handed. 

The only way it would be significantly unpleasant is if you have an overgassed suppressor on your gun, even then you would have to rapid fire to get gassed out.

I'm surprised you posted such a silly question, just go out and shoot it.

If you shoot competition then your stance and cheek weld I would imagine are squared, resulting in zero issue shooting left handed.  Just don't cover the entire ejection port with your face, which would be kind of hard to do in my opinion. :o


I posted this question because the manual that is supplied by the manufacturer of the Tavor X95 specifically cautions against firing from the opposite shoulder than the firearm is configured for.  I read the user's manuals that are supplied with my firearms and follow what they say.  And I have always gone on the belief that the only "silly question" is the one that is not asked especially with regard to firearm safety.  I do thank you very much for your valuable insight and information!!  Now I know that shooting from the support shoulder can be safely done and will begin to practice accordingly for the future matches.


Title: Re: Shooting a Tavor X95 from support shoulder
Post by: RabbitSlayer on July 18, 2017, 03:46:12 AM
I shoot mine from both shoulders .  There is no reason not to, it won't hurt you.  I actually find shoulder transitions faster with the tavor than full size rifles.

My only advice is try to weld your cheek closer to the stock by your shoulder, if you cheek weld too far forward brass might hit your chin, but even when it does it does NOT hurt.  The brass ejection is very soft, and you won't even feel the brass hit your chin.

There are literally hundreds of videos on YouTube of people swapping shoulders with their tavors.  It's almost no different than shooting an AR left handed. 

The only way it would be significantly unpleasant is if you have an overgassed suppressor on your gun, even then you would have to rapid fire to get gassed out.

I'm surprised you posted such a silly question, just go out and shoot it.

If you shoot competition then your stance and cheek weld I would imagine are squared, resulting in zero issue shooting left handed.  Just don't cover the entire ejection port with your face, which would be kind of hard to do in my opinion. :o


I posted this question because the manual that is supplied by the manufacturer of the Tavor X95 specifically cautions against firing from the opposite shoulder than the firearm is configured for.  I read the user's manuals that are supplied with my firearms and follow what they say.  And I have always gone on the belief that the only "silly question" is the one that is not asked especially with regard to firearm safety.  I do thank you very much for your valuable insight and information!!  Now I know that shooting from the support shoulder can be safely done and will begin to practice accordingly for the future matches.


Oh no problem, and I meant no disrespect.  I didn't know it says that in the manual. 

I think the only issue that could arrive is if you shot with your mouth open and got brass in your mouth.


Title: Re: Shooting a Tavor X95 from support shoulder
Post by: JRKrejsa on July 18, 2017, 04:41:48 AM
I've done several drills in training, where I had to switch my X-95 between shoulders.  No issues.  If anything, my cheek weld is slightly further back when shooting left handed.  But, as these were at 50 yards and closer, accuracy was not an issue.


Title: Re: Shooting a Tavor X95 from support shoulder
Post by: Practicool on July 18, 2017, 07:31:35 PM

I posted this question because the manual that is supplied by the manufacturer of the Tavor X95 specifically cautions against firing from the opposite shoulder than the firearm is configured for.  I read the user's manuals that are supplied with my firearms and follow what they say.  And I have always gone on the belief that the only "silly question" is the one that is not asked especially with regard to firearm safety.  I do thank you very much for your valuable insight and information!!  Now I know that shooting from the support shoulder can be safely done and will begin to practice accordingly for the future matches.

Valid concern according to manual and exercising safety.  I agree with the other shooters who have had little to no problem with support-side operation.

I am a lefty, and bought my Tavor SAR in the B-16L left hand eject configuration.  I did add the upgraded shell deflector, and like other folks who have posted here have said, I have only experienced occasional slight brushes on the end of my chin.  Never any marks, cuts, burns or bruises - and I am clean shaven as I cannot grow an epic beard to protect my face.  :)

In the many carbine classes I've taken, support-side shooting was a mandatory non-negotiable fact of the training.  Some drills behind cover demanded that I fire from alternating sides of the barrier and different heights (stand/crouch/kneel/prone) between each controlled pair.

I have personally learned the following:

1.  A single-point sling (like savvy sniper) if attached properly for your build and combined with a thrust-out-and-seat-rifle motion - has been very effective in fast changeovers.  Some people prefer the sling on the outside or inside of the stock as it lays on your chest, and if you use the wrong attachment for your personal manual of arms, you can get the sling bunched up in annoying ways.  I do not know if this applies to competitive matches, if not then disregard.

2.  I experience a benefit because of the shorter bullpup format - I am able to stay a moderate distance behind cover and not have to tilt the rifle off-axis like some longer-gun users seem to have to, making me even with (and faster than some) experienced long-gun users in very short order.

3.  Also agreed with other people who have said not to get to far forward on the stock.  After a class, and some home and range practice, the physical weld was ok and it was more just getting used to acquiring the red dot faster on the opposite side and trusting what I saw first instead of overthinking it.

I can imagine the IWI manual was to prevent some more novice user from getting their head right in front of the ejection port and getting slapped hard - probably a justifiable cover-their-butt legal disclaimer.

YMMV, have fun with your fast shoulder swaps!


Title: Re: Shooting a Tavor X95 from support shoulder
Post by: FLShutterbug55 on July 18, 2017, 10:36:57 PM
I have just ordered the upgraded shell deflector.  Once it arrives and I have it installed, I'll start my support shoulder shooting practice/training with my X95.
I have also purchased a pair of magazines that are different from the rest of my magazines so I can easily identify them.  I will keep them loaded with 5.56 rounds for the stages requiring switching shoulders.


Title: Re: Shooting a Tavor X95 from support shoulder
Post by: RabbitSlayer on July 19, 2017, 04:58:42 PM
I have just ordered the upgraded shell deflector.  Once it arrives and I have it installed, I'll start my support shoulder shooting practice/training with my X95.
I have also purchased a pair of magazines that are different from the rest of my magazines so I can easily identify them.  I will keep them loaded with 5.56 rounds for the stages requiring switching shoulders.

Sounds like overkill.  I think all you really '' need '' to do is make sure your cheek weld is a little further back when shooting left handed.  Or you could just wear a facemask and not worry about it at all.  I shoot in the desert a lot, and we get a lot of dust storms so I usually wear a facemask to help with the sun and dust; when I do this I don't even worry about my cheekweld while shooting left handed.


Title: Re: Shooting a Tavor X95 from support shoulder
Post by: Rick53 on July 19, 2017, 05:24:41 PM
I shoot mine from both shoulders .  There is no reason not to, it won't hurt you.  I actually find shoulder transitions faster with the tavor than full size rifles.

My only advice is try to weld your cheek closer to the stock by your shoulder, if you cheek weld too far forward brass might hit your chin, but even when it does it does NOT hurt.  The brass ejection is very soft, and you won't even feel the brass hit your chin.

There are literally hundreds of videos on YouTube of people swapping shoulders with their tavors.  It's almost no different than shooting an AR left handed. 

The only way it would be significantly unpleasant is if you have an overgassed suppressor on your gun, even then you would have to rapid fire to get gassed out.

I'm surprised you posted such a silly question, just go out and shoot it.

If you shoot competition then your stance and cheek weld I would imagine are squared, resulting in zero issue shooting left handed.  Just don't cover the entire ejection port with your face, which would be kind of hard to do in my opinion. :o


I posted this question because the manual that is supplied by the manufacturer of the Tavor X95 specifically cautions against firing from the opposite shoulder than the firearm is configured for.  I read the user's manuals that are supplied with my firearms and follow what they say.  And I have always gone on the belief that the only "silly question" is the one that is not asked especially with regard to firearm safety.  I do thank you very much for your valuable insight and information!!  Now I know that shooting from the support shoulder can be safely done and will begin to practice accordingly for the future matches.
That's one of those Caution coffee is hot warnings: There's absolutely no danger to switching shoulders other then Caution hot brass