BULLPUP FORUM

Bullpup Rifles (Auto & Semi-Auto Centerfire) => IWI Tavor & X-95 => Topic started by: ignorantGoose on July 15, 2017, 01:38:14 PM



Title: IWI sneakiness
Post by: ignorantGoose on July 15, 2017, 01:38:14 PM
I heard from a former IDF soldier that IWI is notorious in Israel for "stealth updating" their weapons, sometimes to the extent that updated versions are given different names in the army.  I just wanted to show a couple of examples of that I've seen just online.

Here is a video of an Israeli firing the Tavor 7 (i.e. Tavor/x95 hybrid 308) that IWI US has now announced.  You'll notice that the video was posted about 4 months before IWI US officially acknowledged its existence.  IWI IL has never posted anything about it themselves, and it's not on their website.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BRjI3yGFHt1/?taken-by=santosserfaty (https://www.instagram.com/p/BRjI3yGFHt1/?taken-by=santosserfaty)

Attached are also some images of the GL-40 grenade launcher.  First is an image of the launcher as it is posted on IWI's web site, then an image they posted on their instagram.  You'll notice that in the second image, the grenade launcher has a lot more rail space.  There is a third image posed on IWI's instagram account that shows this being used to attach a foregrip farther forward than would normally be possible on the x95. 



Title: Re: IWI sneakiness
Post by: ignorantGoose on July 15, 2017, 01:42:16 PM
Just for fun I've attached an image of the x95 in it's "DMR" configuration, as seen in IWI IL's factory.  It has a mepro 4X sight, a vertical foregrip, and a bipod.


Title: Re: IWI sneakiness
Post by: paulky_2000 on July 15, 2017, 01:53:40 PM
I want the one in the middle of the bottom row.


Title: Re: IWI sneakiness
Post by: RadScorpius on July 15, 2017, 04:18:11 PM
It's not called sneakiness, it's called prototyping. Prototypes are usually not announced until final design.


Title: Re: IWI sneakiness
Post by: Rastoff on July 15, 2017, 04:44:23 PM
Industrial espionage is far more insidious than military or governmental espionage. I'm not surprised they make unannounced upgrades or keep new models under wraps until an official launch can be made. Just look a the Desert Tech MDR. The delays in production are killing their rep for that gun. They should not have announced it until they were ready to sell it.


Title: Re: IWI sneakiness
Post by: RabbitSlayer on July 16, 2017, 09:04:53 AM
Those guns are gnarly man.
308 Bullpups with grenade launchers!!!

Seriously, think about that for a minute...
308 Bullpups with grenade launchers!!!

These guys are equipping their infantry with some pretty state of the art stuff.  I don't think any other army in the world is using such state of the art weaponry on a wide scale infantry level.  This is one of the reasons I love my Tavor so much, it is battle proven by a people in a constant state of war.  Israel knows what it is doing when it comes to weapons. 
I personally hope they completely take over Palestine and a bunch of the middle east soon so their people can rest easy.  Israelies have been persecuted for too long.  It really baffles me when American citizens side with Palestine over Israel.  One of the huge problems about Palestine is that if Israel gave up that land, Israel would then be unable to defend themselves, and muslims would eradicate them.  The Palestinian region is of huge tactical significance in regards to protecting the heart of Israel, without it Israel would be sitting ducks for mortar fire.
Irony is when left wing liberals side with Palestine, but then call right wing trump supporters ****s, seriously the irony is too much.


Title: Re: IWI sneakiness
Post by: Aussie E on July 16, 2017, 11:29:32 AM
I personally hope they completely take over Palestine and a bunch of the middle east soon so their people can rest easy.

I am pro Israel but I don't think that is a viable solution. Ask if that worked for the following:

Germany in France, Poland, Italy etc.
England in Northern Ireland
France in Algeria
and the list goes on and on and on................................

You can never subjugate one hundred percent of the populace.

AE


Title: Re: IWI sneakiness
Post by: RabbitSlayer on July 16, 2017, 11:43:27 AM
I personally hope they completely take over Palestine and a bunch of the middle east soon so their people can rest easy.

I am pro Israel but I don't think that is a viable solution. Ask if that worked for the following:

Germany in France, Poland, Italy etc.
England in Northern Ireland
France in Algeria
and the list goes on and on and on................................

You can never subjugate one hundred percent of the populace.

AE


With all due respect...

  If they completely lose Palestine, they will get literally mortared into oblivion. 

The map might not be 100% accurate, but it's close enough.

(https://polination.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/map-muslim-vs-jewish-nations.jpg)


I'm not saying eradicate all muslims in that area, but I am saying that Israel needs control of it's eastern borders so that it can simply defend it self.




Title: Re: IWI sneakiness
Post by: RadScorpius on July 16, 2017, 12:52:10 PM
Oh man, that ^^^ part of the world will be nasty when oil runs out.


Title: Re: IWI sneakiness
Post by: ignorantGoose on July 16, 2017, 01:11:47 PM
I personally hope they completely take over Palestine and a bunch of the middle east soon so their people can rest easy.

I am pro Israel but I don't think that is a viable solution. Ask if that worked for the following:

Germany in France, Poland, Italy etc.
England in Northern Ireland
France in Algeria
and the list goes on and on and on................................

You can never subjugate one hundred percent of the populace.

AE


With all due respect...

  If they completely lose Palestine, they will get literally mortared into oblivion. 

The map might not be 100% accurate, but it's close enough.

(https://polination.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/map-muslim-vs-jewish-nations.jpg)


I'm not saying eradicate all muslims in that area, but I am saying that Israel needs control of it's eastern borders so that it can simply defend it self.




Agreed completely.  Even if the WB and GS properly became part of Israel, Israel would still have essentially no strategic depth.  Ceding WB and GS to the Palestinians and giving them full autonomy as their own state would be suicidal in the current ME climate i.e. state-sponsored terrorism determined to wipe out the Jewish state.  It would also be a suicidal ideological concession IMO.  It's a difficult situation to be sure, but idea I most agree with is for Israel to take control of the WB and GS, clean out the known terrorists and offer the remaining Palestinians a choice: accept an offer of Israeli citizenship with all that entails and remain in place, or accept citizenship of an Arabic state (of which there are many) and go live there.  The problem being that no Arabic state wants the Palestinians, for a variety of political and practical reasons.  But I think that the threat of Iran is bringing Israel and the more stable Arab states closer together, so I don't think it's out of the question that such an agreement could occur.  At any rate, there's no easy answer and there are good reasons why I'll never have any influence on such matters.   


Title: Re: IWI sneakiness
Post by: BoulderTroll on July 16, 2017, 01:25:53 PM
Just for fun I've attached an image of the x95 in it's "DMR" configuration, as seen in IWI IL's factory.  It has a mepro 4X sight, a vertical foregrip, and a bipod.

I'm surprised nobody is commenting on the integrally suppressed 9mm...  I haven't seen a 9mm SMG with an integral suppressor since the MP-5SD. 


Title: Re: IWI sneakiness
Post by: BellatorInvictus on July 16, 2017, 02:38:15 PM
Just for fun I've attached an image of the x95 in it's "DMR" configuration, as seen in IWI IL's factory.  It has a mepro 4X sight, a vertical foregrip, and a bipod.

I'm surprised nobody is commenting on the integrally suppressed 9mm...  I haven't seen a 9mm SMG with an integral suppressor since the MP-5SD. 

Yep. It has the classic round handguard as well, which we've been clamoring for IWI to release (and which they recently agreed to do). Very cool.

Notice that the "DMR" X95L in the top middle has a 16" barrel with a bayonet lug, but short furniture? IWI if you're reading this, can we get some barrels like that for those of us who like to pin and weld the flash hiders so we can use the short furniture?

I heard that IWI was discontinuing the Tavor IDF16. I wish they wouldn't do that. If anything, I wish they'd release some IDF versions of the X95. Not everyone is into needlessly modding every single part of their rifle that they can and adding a bunch of tac lights and lasers... some of us just want some clean, military-style clones to shoot and enjoy.


Title: Re: IWI sneakiness
Post by: boscoman on July 16, 2017, 02:41:46 PM
Would love to see a 5.56 suppressed like that. Good eye.


Title: Re: IWI sneakiness
Post by: DubageL on July 16, 2017, 06:21:18 PM
You mean like these IDF x95 5.56/ 9mm.


Title: Re: IWI sneakiness
Post by: boscoman on July 16, 2017, 07:07:13 PM
Not quite. If you look at the pic above you will see a 9mm X95 with a built in suppressed barrel. That would be the way to go.


Title: Re: IWI sneakiness
Post by: DubageL on July 16, 2017, 07:31:31 PM
Oh, you mean this one.


Title: Re: IWI sneakiness
Post by: BellatorInvictus on July 16, 2017, 08:14:38 PM
IWI should make IDF-inspired X95s that look like these (minus the optics--people can add those later):




Title: Re: IWI sneakiness
Post by: boscoman on July 17, 2017, 04:33:51 AM
Oh, you mean this one.

Yuppers.


Title: Re: IWI sneakiness
Post by: Gear Head on July 18, 2017, 01:57:50 PM
That 9mm suppressed gun isn't an integral like a MP5SD is. It is just a short 9mm barrel with thread on can inside the forearm. At least that is what I was told by IWI.


Title: Re: IWI sneakiness
Post by: Rick53 on July 18, 2017, 04:39:21 PM
It's Russia and Iran who will soon lead smaller Muslim countries that will soon be attacking Israel. Countries Like Saudi Arabia Syria Egypt and Jordan won't be involved: Israel will not lose Jerusalem: Anyone that tries will be sorry


Title: Re: IWI sneakiness
Post by: dimitry on July 18, 2017, 09:47:53 PM
It's Russia and Iran who will soon lead smaller Muslim countries that will soon be attacking Israel. Countries Like Saudi Arabia Syria Egypt and Jordan won't be involved: Israel will not lose Jerusalem: Anyone that tries will be sorry
You guys have gone off-topic.

Also Russia is not  that unfriendly with Israel.

I personally hope they completely take over Palestine and a bunch of the middle east soon so their people can rest easy.

I am pro Israel but I don't think that is a viable solution. Ask if that worked for the following:
A two-state solution could work eventually. But probably not in the current Middle East... Maybe in a couple of decades.


Title: Re: IWI sneakiness
Post by: RabbitSlayer on July 19, 2017, 04:32:13 PM
It's Russia and Iran who will soon lead smaller Muslim countries that will soon be attacking Israel. Countries Like Saudi Arabia Syria Egypt and Jordan won't be involved: Israel will not lose Jerusalem: Anyone that tries will be sorry
You guys have gone off-topic.

Also Russia is not  that unfriendly with Israel.

I personally hope they completely take over Palestine and a bunch of the middle east soon so their people can rest easy.

I am pro Israel but I don't think that is a viable solution. Ask if that worked for the following:
A two-state solution could work eventually. But probably not in the current Middle East... Maybe in a couple of decades.


I have to disagree on a two state system ever working.  Those who truly practice islam will never tolerate living with infidels/kuffar, let alone being governed by infidels.  In the majority of middle eastern counties anyone who doesn't believe in islam is guilty of blasphemy, and is condemned to persecution by the government.  For example if someone posts on Facebook an atheist idea, or anything that slightly questions islam in the smallest way is considered blasphemy, which is basically like committing a first degree felony.  Those whom are persecuted for blasphemy in the middle east are publicly murdered by mobs of civilians, and such actions are considered good deeds in the name of islam.  This is because basically all middle eastern countries with a populace of which the majority is muslim, the governments are all Theocracies, regardless if they publicly state it or not.  It is of islamic belief that any kuffar/infidel cannot rule over muslims, and that the infidels must be ruled by muslims ( pay tax to muslims, abide by muslim law, etc.)

So I really have to say, in any theocratic country ruled by islam, there is no possible way of a mutually beneficial two party state. 


Title: Re: IWI sneakiness
Post by: BoulderTroll on July 20, 2017, 03:19:18 PM
That 9mm suppressed gun isn't an integral like a MP5SD is. It is just a short 9mm barrel with thread on can inside the forearm. At least that is what I was told by IWI.

Ah, thanks for the info.  But it still looks very cool regardless.  I've always liked that MP5SD look where the suppressor comes out of a forearm. 


Title: Re: IWI sneakiness
Post by: RabbitSlayer on July 20, 2017, 04:41:48 PM
For integrally suppressed guns, is it very easy to clean the barrel/ suppressor ?  I would imagine it makes cleaning much more difficult.  Even a direct thread welded can can be pretty easily cleaned with solvents and canned air to an extent, I would imagine trying to do that with an integrally suppressed gun would get gunk all up in the receiver.