BULLPUP FORUM

Bullpup Rifles (Auto & Semi-Auto Centerfire) => IWI Tavor SAR & X-95 => Topic started by: Commanderfluffy on March 29, 2017, 07:27:41 PM



Title: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: Commanderfluffy on March 29, 2017, 07:27:41 PM
Buying my Tavor X95 this Friday or Saturday.  But I keep hearing mixed reviews about the accuracy. I don't care if its a 3" group gun, so long as it's not jumping to 5" or worse at 100 yards. I don't expect it to be a precision rifle. Whats everyone's experience with it? 


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: adoloris on March 29, 2017, 08:34:20 PM
Search button at top of forum is your friend...


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: Hivedr. on March 29, 2017, 08:41:57 PM
Buying my Tavor X95 this Friday or Saturday.  But I keep hearing mixed reviews about the accuracy. I don't care if its a 3" group gun, so long as it's not jumping to 5" or worse at 100 yards. I don't expect it to be a precision rifle. Whats everyone's experience with it? 

Both of mine are solid 2"-2.5" rifles when benched and depending on ammunition used. They are both from the first batch released. They (mine) seem to like 55-60gr projectiles IME. I think it is well established here on this sight that the newer (noted by the dual ejector) X95s are for first time bull pup shooters a 2.5"-3" moa rifle. The group sizes do tend to shrink the more one shoots the rifle and gains experience with it as I noted above with my group sizes. The X95 will never be DMR accurate but then it was never intended for that role. What it lacks in moa groups it gains in compactness and maneuverability.  


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: Mindless-Focus on March 30, 2017, 06:46:29 AM
The issues of previous models have been fixed. You're good to go.


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: os.mieczkowski on March 30, 2017, 11:11:31 AM
Mine will be at my ffl in about an hour or 2. Then im headed to the range with my trijicon 4x acog. Ill let you know how it turns out


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: Tj7 on March 30, 2017, 12:36:56 PM
Pretty interesting to see this question bought up again. I was also wondering how X95 owners have gotten along in the accuracy department. Besides the slew of initial reviews, and some people lambasting the accuracy; I am interested to see if anyone has seen improvements after getting used to the rifle? I believe 2-3 MOA is completely adequate, but seeing some people get 3-5 was kind of unacceptable. The normal Tavor is a 1.5-3 MOA gun all day long. The odd thing was that people would have a good group going, and then get a random flyer or two; It was very strange to see that happen in a few review videos. Any update from owners would be nice!


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: os.mieczkowski on March 30, 2017, 04:55:12 PM
I picked up my x95 a few hours ago and went to the range. After sighting in the acog more or less this was overall shot pattern at 100 yards un supported. I wasn't really taking my time with each shot, basically if my chevron was more or less in the middle of target I was pulling trigger. The ammo I used was wolf 55 grain ball. Im certain that if I had any support other then the mag and better ammo, this gun would be more accurate then I would ever be. The rifle in the accuracy department is acceptable in my opinion after my range session with it. I cant say it shots any better then my SAR accuracy wise. Hope this helps.


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: cm8404 on March 30, 2017, 05:34:47 PM
Can you clarify what you mean by "the newer (noted by the dual ejector) X95s" above.  I got my X95 in late Nov with serial number T005XXXX.   Thanks


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: MarkB on March 30, 2017, 05:50:16 PM
Take a look at this post.  It shows the original single ejectoe bolt and the new dual ejector bolt.  Rhere is a photo on the second page that shows them side by side.

http://bullpupforum.com/index.php?topic=10598.0 (http://bullpupforum.com/index.php?topic=10598.0)


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: Hivedr. on March 30, 2017, 06:30:31 PM
Can you clarify what you mean by "the newer (noted by the dual ejector) X95s" above.  I got my X95 in late Nov with serial number T005XXXX.   Thanks


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Check out the post that MarkB attached above. The dual ejectors are really the only way to "positively" know that an X95 is from the newest batch. From best guest the dual ejector X95s started showing up in folks hands around the Dec 2016 time frame.


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: Hivedr. on March 30, 2017, 07:08:21 PM
The below target(s) are from a March 23rd (2017) range day. The targets measure 3.5" in diameter and were shot at a distance of 100 meters (110 yards) both using PMC M193 from the same case/lot. The groups are of 25 rounds fired in 5/10/10 strings, benched using a rest and sand bags. Early morning light, no wind to speak of and air temp was in the mid 60s. Groups were measured using the center hole to center hole "maximum spread" method.  

The top target was shot using one of our X95s (ser# in the mid 40K range) using an Aimpoint Comp3 with 2moa red dot and OEM trigger. The 25 shot group is just over 2.6".

The bottom target was shot using one of our free floated BCM 16" CHF LW ML 1/7 uppers running a Viper PST scope on X4 power. Also the lower had an improved after market trigger. The 25 shot group measured just under 2.3". (note this upper/scope combination is not zero'd for the ammo used)

Take it for what it is, targets posted online by some random guy, so you can believe it or not. After all you did not see me shoot them in person nor is there a video, which would prove nothing anyways and still show the same results. Point is an "old" X95 is as good or bad as the shooter.  


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: Commanderfluffy on March 30, 2017, 07:52:28 PM
I will have to check the serial number see if its a newer one or not. It's a trade in x95 so that's why I'm buying it. Price is going for $1500 used. Either way I will be buying it cause I want it. maybe they wont mind taking it apart so i can see the bolt  and internals before buying, specially with it being used anyway.  You don't buy a used car without looking it over.


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: Major54 on March 30, 2017, 09:43:42 PM
No need to disassemble to check for the dual ejectors. Simply use the bolt hold open and thru the ejection port, you can see the bolt face.

Best as I have been able to find, the change to dual ejectors was sometime in the T0055xxx serial range. I have seen some in the 54 range that did have the two and some not but other than documenting it's build range, I haven't seen anything to document it's benefit for semi-auto use.

As already documented though, the initial batch seems to be the anomaly that gave birth to the urban legend of accuracy issues that was corrected with recrowning. I had a T0046xxx that was prone to erratic grouping or was in my hands. My last is a T0062xxx and it will easily bench around 2 inches at 100 meters with good ammo.

At any rate, for most, including myself, the X95's in general are more accurate than most shooters abilities. They aren't a DMR piece but great for their designed use.


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: os.mieczkowski on March 30, 2017, 10:01:15 PM
Gunprime.com has new x95 for 1549 shipped.


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: RadScorpius on March 30, 2017, 11:15:15 PM
2 members on AK Files just reported 2 MOA on their X95.


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: Commanderfluffy on March 31, 2017, 12:16:23 AM
it seems plenty accurate in my book. Saturday I will pick it up for sure. It's more for fun anyway I don't plan on making it my go to battle rifle or patrol rifle. That might change maybe after shooting it lol who knows.


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: ignorantGoose on March 31, 2017, 12:30:00 AM
2 members on AK Files just reported 2 MOA on their X95.

And that's with red dot sights, and in the case of the first guy Federal m855 as well.  Not many people really try and optimize all the variables for accuracy because the x95 excels at offhand/cqb, but from what I've read I'm sure that you can get <2 moa 5 shot groups with the rifle.  That's from what I've seen with others though, I haven't shot an x95 myself.  


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: JRKrejsa on March 31, 2017, 03:05:40 AM
I got my dual ejector X-95 in October of '16.  Serial number in the 57XXX range.  My accuracy, 200 yards and in, seems well within, Minute of Bad Guy standards....


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: JRKrejsa on March 31, 2017, 03:10:05 AM
it seems plenty accurate in my book. Saturday I will pick it up for sure. It's more for fun anyway I don't plan on making it my go to battle rifle or patrol rifle. That might change maybe after shooting it lol who knows.

I'm using mine for patrol and entry duties.  (Not a full-time S.W.A.T. Team)  Seems great so far.  I switched from a Colt M4 I had been carrying for 11 years.

The short length is great for getting out of the car.  And room-clearing, of course....


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: Commanderfluffy on March 31, 2017, 04:17:14 AM
it seems plenty accurate in my book. Saturday I will pick it up for sure. It's more for fun anyway I don't plan on making it my go to battle rifle or patrol rifle. That might change maybe after shooting it lol who knows.

I'm using mine for patrol and entry duties.  (Not a full-time S.W.A.T. Team)  Seems great so far.  I switched from a Colt M4 I had been carrying for 11 years.

The short length is great for getting out of the car.  And room-clearing, of course....



I will have to check our policies here and see if they accept the tavor. Hope so cause it would serve great I think for patrol duties. As you said, great for getting out of a car and if you need to shoot while in the car. My luck only swat could be allowed it lol, they get all the nice things.


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: JRKrejsa on March 31, 2017, 06:50:57 AM
it seems plenty accurate in my book. Saturday I will pick it up for sure. It's more for fun anyway I don't plan on making it my go to battle rifle or patrol rifle. That might change maybe after shooting it lol who knows.

I'm using mine for patrol and entry duties.  (Not a full-time S.W.A.T. Team)  Seems great so far.  I switched from a Colt M4 I had been carrying for 11 years.

The short length is great for getting out of the car.  And room-clearing, of course....



I will have to check our policies here and see if they accept the tavor. Hope so cause it would serve great I think for patrol duties. As you said, great for getting out of a car and if you need to shoot while in the car. My luck only swat could be allowed it lol, they get all the nice things.

We have 2 guys carrying them for patrol.  (1 Tavor, 1X-95). Since we have to buy our own patrol rifles, there was not much objection.  (Or carry our LESO M16A1s.  Nice rifle, but very 1968.)


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: os.mieczkowski on March 31, 2017, 12:07:12 PM
Hey just to add from my earlier post, I just put on a midwest industries rail riser. It is far more comfortable for me to cheek weld my rifle with my ta-31. It may or may not lead to better accuracy but this is purely shooter part and nothing with the rifle. I will do another 20 round and post results.


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: Rastoff on April 01, 2017, 10:42:01 AM
This is with my X95, from a bench rest, using Wolf Gold 55gr ammo and a Trijicon MRO 1x red dot at 100 yards:
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa253/Rastoff/Tavor%20X95/Sub%20MOA%20100yards%2020170212_zpsukszrab9.jpg)

So, yeah, the gun is plenty accurate if you do your part. This is just one group. If I added a few more shots it would probably open up to 1.5MOA or so. Completely acceptable to me.


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: Commanderfluffy on April 01, 2017, 12:08:27 PM
Well bought it today and love it. Such a fun gun to shoot.

(http://i66.tinypic.com/25ho56d.jpg)


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: Rastoff on April 01, 2017, 03:04:52 PM
Well bought it today and love it. Such a fun gun to shoot.
Fun doesn't cover it. I love shooting this. Sure, you're not going to win any bench rest competitions with it, but I find it more fun and easier to operate than my ARs.

Mine is set up similar to yours. I like the Magpul AFG on this gun and the red dot is only the right way to go.


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: Commanderfluffy on April 01, 2017, 06:01:54 PM
I really like AFG on the tavor. So far it seems to be 2-3 moa. Standard 55gr fmj.


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: BBMW on April 05, 2017, 02:13:17 AM
Found this on Youtube.  Maybe it points to ammo/bullet weight sensitivity?

https://youtu.be/H4rRuJz6J_s


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: Commanderfluffy on April 05, 2017, 02:46:36 AM
oops double post


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: Commanderfluffy on April 05, 2017, 02:47:23 AM
Interesting video there.


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: MarkB on April 05, 2017, 07:29:48 PM
oops double post

Made the link active.

https://youtu.be/H4rRuJz6J_s (https://youtu.be/H4rRuJz6J_s)


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: dntam on April 05, 2017, 08:47:35 PM
The video is almost a year old. Are the current X95s better ?


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: Major54 on April 06, 2017, 01:45:52 AM
The video is almost a year old. Are the current X95s better ?

7n6 has done some good work with his X95 and his rifle was one of the first batch that qualified for a muzzle recrowning. No idea of his serial range but I also had an early one that was erratic in shifting groups. That one was in the T0046xxx range. Others here with guns in that serial range don't seem to have the issues I did though.

My current X95 is in the low T0062xxx range and is fairly recent. I can consistently do under two inches with several weights and makes of quality ammunition when benched and using a good optic. No steel used but that isn't ammo snobbery. I get almost all of my ammo provided by my agency so I have the ability even on my salary to use brass cased ammo when I shoot extra.

Even with the better overall accuracy of this X95, it is still less accurate than my AUG. That isn't a fair comparison really though as I was fortunate enough to have the Master smith at Steyr hand select a new barrel after the first was pretty bad. I can only speak for myself but when a battle-type rifle will do two inches with decent ammo, I would have no hesitation in using it for my tactical carbine on the job.


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: david8613 on April 06, 2017, 10:24:33 PM
Recrowning? I have an early one I think.


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: Beat Trash on April 09, 2017, 02:05:28 PM
I think the biggest issue with using an X95 as a Patrol Rifle would be finding a locking mount for one.

If you are an officer assigned to permitter position, a 16" AR will do all that you need to do. But for deploying out of the car, or if you have to shoot from within the car, the X95 would be an amazing Patrol Rifle...


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: Riverkilt on April 09, 2017, 04:50:24 PM
For what its worth just bought a new X95 a week ago and had it out to the range for the first time today.  Sights were dead on out of the box.  No accuracy issues at all.  Shredded the target after 150 rounds.

I tried shooting from the hip too.  As accurate as one would need should shooting from the hip ever be necessary.

I am very pleased.


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: JRKrejsa on April 09, 2017, 09:31:21 PM
I think the biggest issue with using an X95 as a Patrol Rifle would be finding a locking mount for one.

If you are an officer assigned to permitter position, a 16" AR will do all that you need to do. But for deploying out of the car, or if you have to shoot from within the car, the X95 would be an amazing Patrol Rifle...

We just have alarms on the cars.  And a strict policy about unloading all weapons from you vehicle when the work day is ovet.


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: Major54 on April 10, 2017, 02:10:06 AM
I think the biggest issue with using an X95 as a Patrol Rifle would be finding a locking mount for one.

If you are an officer assigned to permitter position, a 16" AR will do all that you need to do. But for deploying out of the car, or if you have to shoot from within the car, the X95 would be an amazing Patrol Rifle...

I haven't been in uniform for a long time so my rifle is in the trunk unless serving a warrant on a known armed individual or the like. But since it has been mentioned, I would be curious how the agencys that have adopted the SAR or X95 DO securely mount them in a cruiser.

As for perimeter security, most situations are fluid enough that I have only been involved in a handful of situations in civilian LE where you have the luxury of pre-assigning that duty. Ideally, unless a part of the active tac unit involved, perimeter is best served by a uniformed officer in a marked unit.


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: Commanderfluffy on April 10, 2017, 09:13:41 PM
it would not fit my mount in the car. So it will have to go in the trunk secured in a bag.


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: RabbitSlayer on April 13, 2017, 07:30:38 AM
X95's having bad accuracy is a bulls*** myth started by AR15 fanboys who can't shoot for s***, and know nothing about actual marksmanship, or how to actually test a rifle for precision.  Just because some guy with an inflated ego has a youtube channel doesn't mean his opinion is anything other than just another opinion.

My x95 gets about 2 MOA with factory ammo, which is the best that most factory ammo is capable of.  With my handloads I can shoot submoa 5 shot groups at 100 meters repeatedly.
See that's the thing.. People who claim to get sub moa with m193 or m855 or whatever factory ammo out of their AR15s, they are FULL OF SH!T. 

I have some guns that love certain types of ammo, and some guns that hate the same kinds.  Every barrel is different, just like a fingerprint. 

These barrels on the Tavors/x95 are much more accurate than the average joe is capable of shooting.  BTW, I honestly believe that every single person who posts on gun forums is not capable of shooting sub moa groups standing up, an notice that Tavors are not benchrest rifles.....


I have a bit of professional training, and have been shooting my entire life.  I just barely got to the point where I am actually physically and mentally capable of shooting sub MOA groups with my wiz bang bling bling AR15's and handloaded ammo.
3 shot cherry picked groups don't count either.  Either multiple 5 or 10 shot groups then we can talk.

The simple matter of the fact is, the majority of 223/5.56 factory ammo is not capable of reproducing sub moa accuracy.  Even Hornady tap and such is about 1 - 2 MOA ammo from my BEST test findings. 
I only get sub MOA accuracy when I do everything perfectly consistent, using my handloaded ammunition.

Milspec for m193 is about 3-4 MOA, and m855 is something like 3-5 MOA.  That kind of ammo is literally not capably of reproducing groups below that at any type of consistent rate, this is why cherry picking groups is BS. 
So all those little keyboard commando AR15 fanboys who say the Tavor only shoots 5MOA, are probably the same dumb asses who claim to shoot 1 MOA with some cheap factory ammo.  Those are the kind of people that make me roll my eyes everytime I get on gun boards.  Many of us were '' that guy '' at one point.  BTW Nutnfancy is another one of '' that guy's '', he cherry picks 3 shot groups and claims that Ak47's can shoot sub moa with wolf ammo.  His opinion is worth just as much any other person on this planet, and not a penny more.



Rant over, it just seriously bothers me how these people try to discredit the Tavor X95 when I have personally seen with my own eyes X95s that actually outshoot some AR15's.  I've printed some amazing 5 and 10 shot groups with my Tavor, and anyone who tells you that it is a 5-moa gun or that an AR is better, has no idea what they are talking about, and their opinions do nothing more than perpetuate ignorance!


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: johnwalton556 on August 17, 2017, 07:08:57 PM
Anyone have any documentation on IWI actually re-crowning and fixing this terrible (4-5MOA) accuracy of earlier batches?  If they have truly addressed the issue that would be awesome.. a lot of people were just not willing to pay 1,800$ for a 5MOA gun regardless of how compact or handy it was. 

Also interested in whether or not the chamber dimension or head-spacing were perhaps altered or maybe the dual ejection bold has some part in "solving"  the problem. 

Incase any snowflakes are butt hurt by my questions...
1. Yes I AM capable of shooting beyond the abilities of a 4-5MOA gun (I shoot 1/2 MOA with my bolt gun)
2. Yes I know it's not a DMR, but asking for 2-3MOA is hardly demanding DMR level performance
3. Yes I know it is made to excel at off hand shooting, but I'd still like it to be on paper at 250yrds
4. No I don't think its unreasonable for a weapon developed (by one of the world's most advanced militaries) over a 10 year period to be both reliable, compact, and accurate.


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: RabbitSlayer on August 17, 2017, 07:52:35 PM
Anyone have any documentation on IWI actually re-crowning and fixing this terrible (4-5MOA) accuracy of earlier batches?  If they have truly addressed the issue that would be awesome.. a lot of people were just not willing to pay 1,800$ for a 5MOA gun regardless of how compact or handy it was. 




It's not a 5moa gun.
It is however easily a 2moa gun, and I've shot even smaller groups using good ammo.

This is the accuracy I am getting from my X95 which was one of the first batches to hit the US shores.

All groups at 100 Yards

The gun, first batch, serial range T005xxxx
(https://s18.postimg.org/salrs5os9/20170813_164716.jpg)


Laser range finder to ensure props distance from target
(https://s17.postimg.org/i5fcevjkv/20170813_163452.jpg)


Group of the day using 62gr bonded soft point handloads. 
62 bonded soft point, wolf gold brass, cci450 primer 25.5 gr CFE223 powder

(https://s28.postimg.org/48v9emedp/20170813_162908.jpg)

(https://s17.postimg.org/3qd6v94jj/20170813_162920.jpg)

Another group using the same handloads

(https://s17.postimg.org/m1yf6szfj/20170813_154401.jpg)


Some groups with Wolf gold 223 brass case factory ammunition

(https://s4.postimg.org/610ae9bil/20170813_131344.jpg)

(https://s24.postimg.org/3jp5bpm2d/20170813_135610.jpg)

I did shoot a few larger groups as well, but overall these were pretty representative of what I was capable of shooting today.  Had a 5-15mph  cross wind that came and went here and there which made things a little more difficult.  I found myself waiting between shots for the wind to settle.  ( the wind would actually move my gun too ) but the wind would stop here and there.

I noticed my Tavor doesnt shoot well with a few different loads like M193, and nosler 60gr ballistic tip hand loads ( groups were about 3.5-4 inches, and some even larger groups with the m193.
This is why I get pissed off when people complain about accuracy, they often don't take into consideration a huge number of factors.  With the shooter being the biggest factor, the x95 breaks a mm or two AFTER the wall.
Idk if I just got a magic Tavor, but my Tavor shoots really well when I do my part.  I was shooting water bottles and beer cans at 100 yards like it was my job.

I honestly think I could do better with better hand loads and a higher power scope.  But I'm not interested.  I've thought about doing a video of me shooting these groups, but I'm not really interested in buying an expensive camera setup to do so.   It's also a pain in the ass to bench the Tavor with the high sight over bore axis, and short overall package.  I accidently destroyed a tshirt I was using as a sand bag because of this  ;D

(https://s21.postimg.org/8a5bj1fx3/20170813_170340.jpg)


http://bullpupforum.com/index.php?topic=12164.0



Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: RadScorpius on August 17, 2017, 09:16:05 PM
How many times can this thread crawl back up?


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: johnwalton556 on August 17, 2017, 09:38:56 PM
How many times can this thread crawl back up?


Sorry if I've woke a dead horse and proceeded to kick it.. I know that can drive people crazy. 
I was just hoping for any additional (official) info on accuracy "fix" from current owners.


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: Heavy on August 17, 2017, 10:11:09 PM
Are you experiencing accuracy issues? If so, this is a question for IWI US. I only remember one person on this board who had problems. He sold to another forum member who never claimed any issue. So i doubt youll find much help from us Tavor zealots. The recrowning ive never sern more than friend of a friend accounts. Perhaps once you ask IWI, you can tell us what their stance on it is.


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: Hivedr. on August 17, 2017, 11:09:38 PM
How many times can this thread crawl back up?


Sorry if I've woke a dead horse and proceeded to kick it.. I know that can drive people crazy. 
I was just hoping for any additional (official) info on accuracy "fix" from current owners.

The official fix for owners is: Get off the bench and shoot the rifle as it was designed to be shot, on the move at ranges of 0-150 yards with a red dot sight and FMJ ammo. In this it is more than a match for any of it's contemporaries.

The non official fix: Forget how you shoot an AR and learn how to shoot a bull pup because there are
subtle differences that can make huge differences in grouping performance.

Not trying to be an A** but it is pretty well established now that the issues were more related to shooting technique than the mechanical aspect of the design and or build quality. Folks here, myself included, see 2"-2.5" groups routinely with most 55gn FMJ/HP brass cased factory loads and EVEN BETTER with hand loads when fired from the bench and using proper technique. 2"-2.5" is on par with the most conventional semi auto rifle of similar build quality and cost running the same 55gn ammo. (AXR, ACR, DI ARs, SIG 5XX, SCAR16, LWRC, HK416 and BREN 805 to name just a few)

No one has ever said the X95 or Tavor were intended for DMR / sub moa work, but for some reason folks think that they should be because of the price tag when compared to ?.  Price mean different thing to different folks. The X95 price to me is justified in its unique looks, rugged build quality and reliability that is not based on the need for lots of oil or special coatings to run in adverse conditions. To others high price mean chasing the mythical sub moa groups with surplus ammo or steel cased wolf. If this is the goal than the X95 is not for them as they will never appreciate it for it's other beauties.       


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: RabbitSlayer on August 17, 2017, 11:43:09 PM
''Johnwalton556''
Is just a troll account  ::)
Probably just Bullpup777


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: RabbitSlayer on August 17, 2017, 11:52:06 PM
How many times can this thread crawl back up?


Sorry if I've woke a dead horse and proceeded to kick it.. I know that can drive people crazy. 
I was just hoping for any additional (official) info on accuracy "fix" from current owners.


There is no accuracy problem.  The gun easily shoots 2moa for any competent shooter using decent ammo.
Quit being a fukin troll.


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: xpdchief on August 18, 2017, 07:53:27 AM
Anyone have any documentation on IWI actually re-crowning and fixing this terrible (4-5MOA) accuracy of earlier batches?  If they have truly addressed the issue that would be awesome.. a lot of people were just not willing to pay 1,800$ for a 5MOA gun regardless of how compact or handy it was. 

Also interested in whether or not the chamber dimension or head-spacing were perhaps altered or maybe the dual ejection bold has some part in "solving"  the problem. 

Incase any snowflakes are butt hurt by my questions...
1. Yes I AM capable of shooting beyond the abilities of a 4-5MOA gun (I shoot 1/2 MOA with my bolt gun)
2. Yes I know it's not a DMR, but asking for 2-3MOA is hardly demanding DMR level performance
3. Yes I know it is made to excel at off hand shooting, but I'd still like it to be on paper at 250yrds
4. No I don't think its unreasonable for a weapon developed (by one of the world's most advanced militaries) over a 10 year period to be both reliable, compact, and accurate.

"a lot of people were just not willing to pay 1,800$ for a 5MOA gun regardless of how compact or handy it was." 
 
What idiot would knowingly "pay 1,800$ for a 5MOA gun" when they could "shoot 1/2 MOA" with their "bolt gun"?  Oops, sorry! 


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: johnwalton556 on August 18, 2017, 08:09:10 AM
''Johnwalton556''
Is just a troll account  ::)
Probably just Bullpup777


Sorry if you've had issues with others but I've never had an account here before.  I made this account just a few days ago because I'm considering getting a bullpup( X95 or perhaps a MDR)


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: johnwalton556 on August 18, 2017, 08:35:59 AM
Looking at these comments here I'm always shocked how emotional and thin skinned certain groups can be.  I'm simply not used to people who take offense so easily.  Being active duty the last 8 years, I just can't relate. 
The idea that you are so emotionally invested in an inanimate object that you perceive any questions about it as some kind of attack or threat, is pathetic. 

Hivedr and Heavy Thanks for your time. 

Everyone else, I'll exit your safe space before anyone else gets triggered. 



Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: Bullpup777 on August 18, 2017, 10:54:18 AM
Jw556 - report the rabbitslayer to the moderator. I have been PMed by other members who have complained about his content, insults and attacks and complaints have been sent to the moderator.  I received a message from the moderator yesterday addressing these attacks and the deserved repsonce to such attacks - he implied all parties were contacted and asked to refrain from such posts including me.  Either RabbitSlayer 1. Didn't understand the moderator, 2. Doesn't care about what the moderator has to say, 3. Is the actual moderator of the site - I certainly hope not.  I say this because he has stepped up his rhetoric in light of such requests and nothing is being done about it.  

So Sgt P, read the post from JW556.  There are many here that agree.  If you want to clean up this forum sir as we cordially communicated yesterday, you know where to begin.  

JW556 ....... thank you for your eight honorable years of service sir.  You are a patriot.


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: Bullpup777 on August 18, 2017, 10:57:33 AM
And ........ welcome to the site.  Lots of good info here and aside from a few, a great community.


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: paulky_2000 on August 18, 2017, 11:31:21 AM
This all started because someone was too lazy to use the search function.

Let it go, man...


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: RabbitSlayer on August 18, 2017, 01:43:42 PM
Jw556 - report the rabbitslayer to the moderator. I have been PMed by other members who have complained about his content, insults and attacks and complaints have been sent to the moderator.  I received a message from the moderator yesterday addressing these attacks and the deserved repsonce to such attacks - he implied all parties were contacted and asked to refrain from such posts including me.  Either RabbitSlayer 1. Didn't understand the moderator, 2. Doesn't care about what the moderator has to say, 3. Is the actual moderator of the site - I certainly hope not.  I say this because he has stepped up his rhetoric in light of such requests and nothing is being done about it.  

So Sgt P, read the post from JW556.  There are many here that agree.  If you want to clean up this forum sir as we cordially communicated yesterday, you know where to begin.  

JW556 ....... thank you for your eight honorable years of service sir.  You are a patriot.


First of all.

1.  You literally insulted the entire board last week, then edited your response to hide your tracks.  You created a personal vendetta with me when I called you out for posting false statements about the Tavor, statements you repeated here because "some well know YouTube personalities said so".  The entire board disagreed with you, yet you didn't listen to a single members personal experience.  Instead of being thankful that several members here told You their personal experience with the gun, you got mad nobody agreed with you.   You have been completely disrespectful, and posted nothing but arrogant, and ignorant remarks.

2.  No moderator on this site has ever contacted me regarding my communication with you.  If you were contacted by a mod about it, then maybe you should take a hint.

3.  You gave yourself away again.  You have more than one account here, and you use them soley to stir the pot because the internet hurt your feelings.


4.  Grow up and move on dude.  You don't even own a Tavor, yet you come here and s***post about them because of what you saw some YouTube guys say about it.  It's annoying to those of us who actually own and shoot Tavors.  If your sole purpose is to s***post against Tavor owners, then you will have much more luck on Barfcom.

5.
If you actually do intend on purchasing a Tavor, and you actually want to be a contributing member to this forum.  Then welcome to the community.  The Tavor is a seriously awesome weapon, and I'm sure if you buy one you will absolutely love it.   Just remember if you're this worried about accuracy to shoot some better ammo than just M193 or m855 because that stuff isn't very accurate ammo.
The gun has an awesome internal design, and it is very robust, and reliable.
This forum is an awesome place, and one of the most civil forums on the net.
 There are some of us however who become very short with people when we smell bulls***.  There are many here who are not fond of barfcom s***posting.
In my book, creating multiple threads and using multiple accounts to falsely claim the X95 is a 5moa gun is pure s***posting.  Almost every member here has told you personally that their gun is much more accurate than 5 Moa, yet you just keep s***posting dude.
I'm sure once you actually own the gun, and shoot it with an optic and good ammo, you will be happy to see it will easily shoot 2moa.  Don't believe everything you see on YouTube man, those YouTube gun channels get paid to have a lot of views that's how they make money.  Those same YouTube channels are often sponsored by firearm companies as well, even some of the most loved YouTube guys spout BS, and shill for sponsorships.  I don't blame them either, I would probably do the same thing if I got free guns and ammo.


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: RadScorpius on August 18, 2017, 01:55:49 PM
This thread is a perfect example of the gun community cannibalizing itself every four years.


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: RabbitSlayer on August 18, 2017, 02:01:08 PM
''Johnwalton556''
Is just a troll account  ::)
Probably just Bullpup777


Sorry if you've had issues with others but I've never had an account here before.  I made this account just a few days ago because I'm considering getting a bullpup( X95 or perhaps a MDR)

Just like I told Bullpup777 the other day ::)
....
If you don't own a Tavor X95, then don't post about it like you know it all.  Calling it a 5moa gun is Pure BS.  Almost every single person here who has owned one reports roughly 2moa.  You would know that if you actually read the replies.

You didn't melt any snowflakes, or get in anyone's safe space.  You were simply s***posting, and being called out for it.  I'm not the only one who called you out, I was just the most dry about it.

I have a hard time believing you aren't Bullpup777.  Same posting style, same attitude, same vocabulary, don't own an X95', etc, just like another account  ::)

But hey, if you're not here solely to troll, then welcome to the forum.  I hope you enjoy your stay.  If you end up buying an X95 you will love it, it's a great gun.  If it wasn't, I don't think so many people here would be spending so much money on Tavors, and posting here.  Most members here own more than one Tavor, so that should say something about their quality.


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: ignorantGoose on August 18, 2017, 02:41:05 PM
Since there's activity on this accuracy thread right now, I'm posting a link to a recent review on the x95 (posted last week I believe).  In it the reviewer claims that no load they tested produced greater than 2" groups at 100 yards, and that they were able to produce at least some 1" groups with match ammo (Unknown level of consistency).  YMMV of course, but with the number of professional reviews and owner reviews I've seen claiming similar I think it's uncontroversial to claim that the x95 is capable of 2 moa with factory loads it likes and better with handloads or match ammo it likes.  

 https://www.getzone.com/iwi-tavor-x95-bullpup-combat-proven-alternative-ar-ak/  (https://www.getzone.com/iwi-tavor-x95-bullpup-combat-proven-alternative-ar-ak/)

EDIT

Also there was a review back in May 2017 by Small Arms Defense Journal:

"The X95 was shot for accuracy from a bench at 100 yards. We didnít shoot it for long range accuracy, but the groups shot at the 100 yard mark showed that this rifle is well up to the task even out past 300 yards. The gun was fired using a variety of ammunition with various bullet weights and type. In the accuracy test one ammunition always shot extremely well. This was the Gorilla Ammunition loaded with the 77 grain Sierra Matchking boat tail hollow point. This ammunition produced groups of under an inch at 100 yards while most of the other ammunition used produced 1.5-to-2 inch groups. This should come as no surprise as Gorilla Ammunition has proven itself time and time again as one of the premium ammunition makers in the US."

 http://www.sadefensejournal.com/wp/?p=3174  (http://www.sadefensejournal.com/wp/?p=3174)


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: Bullpup777 on August 18, 2017, 04:17:33 PM
Thanks for the info ignorant goose - good info.

RabbitSlayer - blah blah blah blah blah blah.  Get a life. 

Have a great weekend all.



Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: johnwalton556 on August 24, 2017, 06:59:57 PM
This might be the first time I've had to convince someone on the interwebs I'm ....me.  ::)

If the 777 guy is part of an elite helicopter unit, operating in the national capitol region then, ok.  He's me.            
           Otherwise THIS is me.  

Here's my "office," under NVG's flying past the Washington monument,

Here's me running up a UH-60 Blackhawk for duty,

And here's me kicking ass, flying multi-ship.  


First time posting pics, I have NO idea if they will show up properly.  


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: RabbitSlayer on August 24, 2017, 08:57:22 PM
This might be the first time I've had to convince someone on the interwebs I'm ....me.  ::)

If the 777 guy is part of an elite helicopter unit, operating in the national capitol region then, ok.  He's me.            
           Otherwise THIS is me.  

Here's my "office," under NVG's flying past the Washington monument,

Here's me running up a UH-60 Blackhawk for duty,

And here's me kicking ass, flying multi-ship.  


First time posting pics, I have NO idea if they will show up properly.  

Wow dude.  That is bad ass.  Much cooler than any office I've sat in.  My buddy was a helicopter pilot in the military, and told me all kinds of awesome stories.

Sorry for giving ya a hard time, the internet is full of trolls and I didn't know if you were trolling or not.
 You'll love the X95, it is a great weapon.


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: xpdchief on August 25, 2017, 10:01:28 AM
This might be the first time I've had to convince someone on the interwebs I'm ....me.  ::)

If the 777 guy is part of an elite helicopter unit, operating in the national capitol region then, ok.  He's me.            
           Otherwise THIS is me.  

Here's my "office," under NVG's flying past the Washington monument,

Here's me running up a UH-60 Blackhawk for duty,

And here's me kicking ass, flying multi-ship.  


First time posting pics, I have NO idea if they will show up properly.  

Wow dude.  That is bad ass.  Much cooler than any office I've sat in.  My buddy was a helicopter pilot in the military, and told me all kinds of awesome stories.

Sorry for giving ya a hard time, the internet is full of trolls and I didn't know if you were trolling or not.
 You'll love the X95, it is a great weapon.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying anything about anybody, but you do realize that I have those same photos on my computer.


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: Rastoff on August 25, 2017, 12:12:45 PM
Why does anyone here care who anyone here "is"? Either a person writes information that makes sense or they don't. Wild claims are easily shown to be false and valid claims stand alone, regardless of "who" wrote them. The accuracy of the X95 is well documented. It is an excellent close quarters gun and has an accuracy to match . Out to 100 yards it will hit the intended target with very good defensive accuracy. Mine will consistently shoot 2MOA and better with cheap Wold Gold ammo.

But, as long as we're having fun, this was my "office" for a long time:
(http://i.imgur.com/PWID0Q6.jpg)
(Since I've posted this pic several times on other forums, you may have this pic on your computer, but I took it.)

Bonus points to anyone who can tell me where that is. Hint: you can see by the image on the screen on the right that we're not on the ground. It's looking through the HUD. I still work there, but that's not my main "office" anymore.


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: RabbitSlayer on August 25, 2017, 05:04:21 PM
This might be the first time I've had to convince someone on the interwebs I'm ....me.  ::)

If the 777 guy is part of an elite helicopter unit, operating in the national capitol region then, ok.  He's me.            
           Otherwise THIS is me.  

Here's my "office," under NVG's flying past the Washington monument,

Here's me running up a UH-60 Blackhawk for duty,

And here's me kicking ass, flying multi-ship.  


First time posting pics, I have NO idea if they will show up properly.  

Wow dude.  That is bad ass.  Much cooler than any office I've sat in.  My buddy was a helicopter pilot in the military, and told me all kinds of awesome stories.

Sorry for giving ya a hard time, the internet is full of trolls and I didn't know if you were trolling or not.
 You'll love the X95, it is a great weapon.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying anything about anybody, but you do realize that I have those same photos on my computer.

I google searched those pictures and didn't see any matches.
Are you saying his pictures are fake?  If they are that would be an extremely low move I sure hope he didn't just pull a stolen valor..


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: RabbitSlayer on August 25, 2017, 05:27:48 PM
Why does anyone here care who anyone here "is"? Either a person writes information that makes sense or they don't. Wild claims are easily shown to be false and valid claims stand alone, regardless of "who" wrote them. The accuracy of the X95 is well documented. It is an excellent close quarters gun and has an accuracy to match . Out to 100 yards it will hit the intended target with very good defensive accuracy. Mine will consistently shoot 2MOA and better with cheap Wold Gold ammo.

But, as long as we're having fun, this was my "office" for a long time:
(http://i.imgur.com/PWID0Q6.jpg)
(Since I've posted this pic several times on other forums, you may have this pic on your computer, but I took it.)

Bonus points to anyone who can tell me where that is. Hint: you can see by the image on the screen on the right that we're not on the ground. It's looking through the HUD. I still work there, but that's not my main "office" anymore.

Submarine?

I honestly have no clue.

I'm sitting in my Office right now, but I don't want to get in trouble by posting a pic online.  I work in LE so it's nothing fancy at all, just an office with a computer.  I'm actually pretty lucky that I currently have a post with a private office, most guys at my department do not have the same luxury.  Most you guys probably do much cooler stuff than I currently do though that's for sure!


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: RadScorpius on August 25, 2017, 05:57:31 PM
Looks like the inside of a scout plane or something.


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: scstrain on August 25, 2017, 06:13:45 PM
I am not trying to throw gasoline on flames here.  I own a X-95 but have not shot it enough to report on accuracy (Only at about 30 yards).  Not sure, but I think some of the confusion is because most feel that the regular Tavor's are more accurate then the X-95's. Is there any truth to this ?


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: xpdchief on August 25, 2017, 07:27:15 PM
This might be the first time I've had to convince someone on the interwebs I'm ....me.  ::)

If the 777 guy is part of an elite helicopter unit, operating in the national capitol region then, ok.  He's me.            
           Otherwise THIS is me.  

Here's my "office," under NVG's flying past the Washington monument,

Here's me running up a UH-60 Blackhawk for duty,

And here's me kicking ass, flying multi-ship.  


First time posting pics, I have NO idea if they will show up properly.  

Wow dude.  That is bad ass.  Much cooler than any office I've sat in.  My buddy was a helicopter pilot in the military, and told me all kinds of awesome stories.

Sorry for giving ya a hard time, the internet is full of trolls and I didn't know if you were trolling or not.
 You'll love the X95, it is a great weapon.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying anything about anybody, but you do realize that I have those same photos on my computer.

I google searched those pictures and didn't see any matches.
Are you saying his pictures are fake?  If they are that would be an extremely low move I sure hope he didn't just pull a stolen valor..

No, I'm not saying his pictures are fake, the first 10 words of my post make that clear.  What I am saying is that anyone can post anything on the internet.  Once an image is posted in a thread it can be downloaded to your computer, an internet search is not necessary.
My intent was meant to be cautious when posting images on the internet, as well as believing everything we see on the internet.

Again, to be clear, I'm not saying anything about anybody.


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: RabbitSlayer on August 25, 2017, 07:29:58 PM
This might be the first time I've had to convince someone on the interwebs I'm ....me.  ::)

If the 777 guy is part of an elite helicopter unit, operating in the national capitol region then, ok.  He's me.             
           Otherwise THIS is me. 

Here's my "office," under NVG's flying past the Washington monument,

Here's me running up a UH-60 Blackhawk for duty,

And here's me kicking ass, flying multi-ship. 


First time posting pics, I have NO idea if they will show up properly. 

Wow dude.  That is bad ass.  Much cooler than any office I've sat in.  My buddy was a helicopter pilot in the military, and told me all kinds of awesome stories.

Sorry for giving ya a hard time, the internet is full of trolls and I didn't know if you were trolling or not.
 You'll love the X95, it is a great weapon.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying anything about anybody, but you do realize that I have those same photos on my computer.

I google searched those pictures and didn't see any matches.
Are you saying his pictures are fake?  If they are that would be an extremely low move I sure hope he didn't just pull a stolen valor..

No, I'm not saying his pictures are fake, the first 10 words of my post make that clear.  What I am saying is that anyone can post anything on the internet.  Once an image is posted in a thread it can be downloaded to your computer, an internet search is not necessary.
My intent was meant to be cautious when posting images on the internet, as well as believing everything we see on the internet.

Again, to be clear, I'm not saying anything about anybody.


Ok, well you said you have those same photos on your computer... Makes me very curious.  I'm going to send you a PM.


Edit:
I think I know what you meant now.  Nevermind on the PM.  I don't even care if the pics are legit or not.


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: johnwalton556 on August 25, 2017, 11:18:48 PM
1. Don't worry about OPSEC with those pics i posted, they have all been scrubbed for anything that shouldn't be put "out there."  I'm not too concerned anyway with the "shady characters" on a bull pup forum, probably nothing but a bunch of patriots anyway.   A google reverse image search will show these are my pics and not really circulated anywhere else.  I've had  a few of my pics (taken with my nicer lens) published in Rotor magazine but none of these obviously.  
2. It seems my original question has been answered.  It seems any shooters who were getting terrbile groups either A. hadn't learned the unique trigger of this X95, or B. the early batch may have had an issue with head-spacing OR barrel crown inconsistency OR  the redesigned hand-guard not working as well on American 16" barrels as it does in Israel with a 13" barrel.  All accounts of you guys, and a few newer youtube tests are in fact showing much better results.    After digging for last two days I did find one owner who PM'd me, telling me that some early X95 buyers were in fact eligible for re-crowning (I guess there was some kind of issue at some point early on).
3. I do in fact delete my accounts on forums / social media from time to time to limit my online footprint.  SERE habits are hard to break.  If my account is gone in a month or a week, there is no vast conspiracy, just me making sure my next security clearance process isn't derailed for something stupid. 

Think I'm going to pull the trigger pretty soon on a OD green X95, I played with one at my local gun store, it had the newer dual ejector bolt and felt OH SO NICE.


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: paulky_2000 on August 26, 2017, 02:17:15 AM
Bonus points to anyone who can tell me where that is.

Looks a good bit like the inside cargo area of a C17....

...am I close?


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: Rastoff on August 27, 2017, 01:26:59 AM
Bonus points to anyone who can tell me where that is.

Looks a good bit like the inside cargo area of a C17....

...am I close?
We have a winner! It is indeed the cargo compartment of a C17. One of the finest USAF planes ever built. I love that plane and what it can do.


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: Heavy on August 27, 2017, 01:35:28 AM
Bonus points to anyone who can tell me where that is.

Looks a good bit like the inside cargo area of a C17....

...am I close?
We have a winner! It is indeed the cargo compartment of a C17. One of the finest USAF planes ever built. I love that plane and what it can do.
My coworker has this above his desk. Same plane?


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: Rick53 on August 27, 2017, 09:30:25 AM
I am not trying to throw gasoline on flames here.  I own a X-95 but have not shot it enough to report on accuracy (Only at about 30 yards).  Not sure, but I think some of the confusion is because most feel that the regular Tavor's are more accurate then the X-95's. Is there any truth to this ?
The Tavor Sar is slightly easier from a benched position to control the barrel end. If you look at pictures of large groups with the X-95 they mostly are horizontal.  That's shooter error. Plain and simple. The LOP is shorter on the X-95 . That alone makes it slightly harder to hold still when benched. Neither the Sar or X-95 has natural ergo when it combs to the comb. JMO


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: johnwalton556 on August 27, 2017, 01:19:08 PM
I am not trying to throw gasoline on flames here.  I own a X-95 but have not shot it enough to report on accuracy (Only at about 30 yards).  Not sure, but I think some of the confusion is because most feel that the regular Tavor's are more accurate then the X-95's. Is there any truth to this ?
The Tavor Sar is slightly easier from a benched position to control the barrel end. If you look at pictures of large groups with the X-95 they mostly are horizontal.  That's shooter error. Plain and simple. The LOP is shorter on the X-95 . That alone makes it slightly harder to hold still when benched. Neither the Sar or X-95 has natural ergo when it combs to the comb. JMO



I think that's probably part of it.  The X95 has I believe two rubber grommets that transfer force/support from the handguard right to the barrel so "bearing down on it" tightly into a rest or sled isn't going to help group size either.    The better groups I've seen on YouTube have been by shooters who appear to be deliberately not putting too much force down onto the hand guard, (that's how it looks to me, but I could be way off).


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: Hivedr. on August 27, 2017, 02:55:25 PM
I am not trying to throw gasoline on flames here.  I own a X-95 but have not shot it enough to report on accuracy (Only at about 30 yards).  Not sure, but I think some of the confusion is because most feel that the regular Tavor's are more accurate then the X-95's. Is there any truth to this ?
The Tavor Sar is slightly easier from a benched position to control the barrel end. If you look at pictures of large groups with the X-95 they mostly are horizontal.  That's shooter error. Plain and simple. The LOP is shorter on the X-95 . That alone makes it slightly harder to hold still when benched. Neither the Sar or X-95 has natural ergo when it combs to the comb. JMO



I think that's probably part of it.  The X95 has I believe two rubber grommets that transfer force/support from the handguard right to the barrel so "bearing down on it" tightly into a rest or sled isn't going to help group size either.    The better groups I've seen on YouTube have been by shooters who appear to be deliberately not putting too much force down onto the hand guard, (that's how it looks to me, but I could be way off).


You observation is correct in my experience with a number of X95s I have shot as far as pressure on the hand guard. Even though "on paper" the hand guard / barrel are free floated they really are not. The top rail attaches to the front of the hand guard but the rail is also attached to the barrel via the gas block. I find the best "bench" groups happen when there is the least amount of pressure on the forward third of the hand guard. Best if there is none though. I usually rest the pistol grip (like a mono pod) on the bench and support / adjust more from rear of the X95. This requires the use of a shorter magazine like a 10 or 20, 30s are to long.  

Using this method I can routinely achieve 2"-2.5" grounds with off the shelf 55grn brass case ammo.





Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: scstrain on August 27, 2017, 03:05:51 PM
The last three post's have been great.  Info like this is what this post is suppose to be about, thanks. Let's hope no feelings got hurt.  But if they did.........:ROFLMAO   :LOL :excited!


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: Kevlar on August 27, 2017, 07:05:40 PM
I have taken both of those Teflon bushings out. 

Newer X95s do not come with the rear bushing, only the front.

Removing the front bushing provides a bit of space around the barrel.

It helps in my personal experience


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: brok3n on September 01, 2017, 10:25:35 AM
Gents,

I'm a bit late here, but was curious for opinions. Would the extra FPS from the 18" barrel X95 fare better in these accuracy tests?


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: paulky_2000 on September 01, 2017, 11:54:14 AM
Bonus points to anyone who can tell me where that is.

Looks a good bit like the inside cargo area of a C17....

...am I close?
We have a winner! It is indeed the cargo compartment of a C17. One of the finest USAF planes ever built. I love that plane and what it can do.

YAY!!!!!!

Yep. I flew in and out of Afghanistan on one.....TWICE!

Very powerful aircraft!


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: Rastoff on September 02, 2017, 08:55:17 PM
My coworker has this above his desk. Same plane?
Yep, that picture was taken from the ramp of a C-17.

Yep. I flew in and out of Afghanistan on one.....TWICE!

Very powerful aircraft!
You are fortunate.


Having worked on F-16, T-38, C-5, C-130H, C-130J, C-12, Globalhawk and a host of others, I can say without a doubt the C-17 is my favorite. Originally built by McDonald Douglas, they had a bunch of smart engineers on that thing. It is by far the best laid out, best engineered, easiest to work on plane I've ever dealt with.

But I digress:
I didn't notice a difference when I removed the grommet around the barrel in my X95. Then again, I don't bench rest it much.


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: hammerg26 on September 03, 2017, 10:40:52 AM
This might be the first time I've had to convince someone on the interwebs I'm ....me.  ::)

If the 777 guy is part of an elite helicopter unit, operating in the national capitol region then, ok.  He's me.            
           Otherwise THIS is me.  

Here's my "office," under NVG's flying past the Washington monument,

Here's me running up a UH-60 Blackhawk for duty,

And here's me kicking ass, flying multi-ship.  


First time posting pics, I have NO idea if they will show up properly.  

Wow dude.  That is bad ass.  Much cooler than any office I've sat in.  My buddy was a helicopter pilot in the military, and told me all kinds of awesome stories.

Sorry for giving ya a hard time, the internet is full of trolls and I didn't know if you were trolling or not.
 You'll love the X95, it is a great weapon.
My first post on here. 
Kudos to RabbitSlayer on the apology. 
I second the accuracy:  1.5 to 2 MOA is the best I have seen.  Plenty accurate for my taste.  If I want more accuracy, .338 Lapua out of a custom bolt gun...



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Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: scstrain on September 04, 2017, 12:54:46 AM

Newer X95s do not come with the rear bushing, only the front.



Is it hard to take the rear bushing out?  If the latest X-95's are being made without this bushing there must be a reason for it.   




Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: Kevlar on September 04, 2017, 05:06:08 AM
I think the rear bushing acts as a type of heat sink.

This was on the military rifles and found to not be needed on our civi rifles.

Maybe someone has better info than I do?




Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accuracy?
Post by: Hkbeltfed on September 04, 2017, 08:56:55 AM
It's for the grenade launcher, not needed on the civilian rifle, and that's why it's omitted.


Title: Re: TAVOR X95 accurac
Post by: Leonitus on September 05, 2017, 07:46:49 AM
The below target(s) are from a March 23rd (2017) range day. The targets measure 3.5" in diameter and were shot at a distance of 100 meters (110 yards) both using PMC M193 from the same case/lot. The groups are of 25 rounds fired in 5/10/10 strings, benched using a rest and sand bags. Early morning light, no wind to speak of and air temp was in the mid 60s. Groups were measured using the center hole to center hole "maximum spread" method.  

The top target was shot using one of our X95s (ser# in the mid 40K range) using an Aimpoint Comp3 with 2moa red dot and OEM trigger. The 25 shot group is just over 2.6".

The bottom target was shot using one of our free floated BCM 16" CHF LW ML 1/7 uppers running a Viper PST scope on X4 power. Also the lower had an improved after market trigger. The 25 shot group measured just under 2.3". (note this upper/scope combination is not zero'd for the ammo used)

Take it for what it is, targets posted online by some random guy, so you can believe it or not. After all you did not see me shoot them in person nor is there a video, which would prove nothing anyways and still show the same results. Point is an "old" X95 is as good or bad as the shooter.  

Comparisons of two different platforms can be made to determine accuracy differences. But, when one platform is using a red dot and the other a magnified optic, the comparison is extremely flawed. Apples and grapefruit are not easily compared.

The comparisons do actually make a fine point. This point being that these two platforms, shooting the same ammunition, would, most likely, shoot groupings that would be very close to each other if the same optic were used on both.